Found Deceased AZ - Jerold Williams, 5, Jacob Lake, 6 Aug 2015

[amymarie]

I can't believe he hasn't been found yet.

 

[gitana1]

I am concerned with combination of the Arizona heat, and the fact that under those jeans he is wearing Long Johns, he will lose more water by sweating more. The long sleeve, jeans and boots will help protect him some, but the long johns (especially if hand made woolies) will really take it out of him fast. I fear for him at this point. Does anyone know if children are more or less resilient without water then an adult? I can not find anything on it...IMHO

They're not wool though -more lightweight cotton or polyester. But still hot enough.

I made the same honest mistake - not knowing much about FLDS and their views on things like technology. I think it's their "Little House on the Prairie" attire that made me think they might have similar views as the Amish.

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Yeah. It's a logical thought to have based on how they look.

Thanks. I think I had the definition of sect wrong, or more likely I was once again confused. But if I'm understanding you correctly - FLDS is a sect of Mormonism like WBC is a sect of Christianity. The larger, organized religion doesn't recognize them, they are merely offshoots or formed after schisms.

Exactly.

What does all this have to do with Jerold?


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Some are suggesting his disappearance is actually not a disappearance but that his mother was trying to "rescue" him from the sect and pretended he went missing.

I don't believe that. His disappearance fits no patterns of people who've fled the FLDS or got their children out. But some are suggesting that.

Also, it may have to do with certain things like whether the little boy would respond to people searching who he doesn't know, his attire and how that may help or hurt him, things like that.

Sorry if someone has already posted this, but I hadn't seen this new photo of Jerold and a new release by the sheriffs office.

https://www.facebook.com/CoconinoSheriff/posts/1066526120039237


It seems that they revised the time he was last seen from 1:30 to 2:30.

Oh. What a little doll.

Have the family even been confirmed to be FLDS?

No. But it is 100% certain to me. Colorado City is part of Short Creek, or "The Crick", which is made up of Colorado City AZ and Hilldale Utah, twin towns. It is an FLDS stronghold and the people who live there are about 99.9% FLDS, or people who've left the faith or been kicked out.

Almost no one else lives there.

The kids is dressed like the FLDS boys dress - long underwear and jeans with a long sleeved shirt buttoned all the way up to his neck, in the summer.

These are not coincidences.

400 volunteers going shoulder to shoulder is not nearly enough to cover the large area that needs to be searched.

Oh man! I thought that was a good amount! What do I know.

I thought they were having hail storms and mud slides today.

On another note - Today is 3 days into the search for Jarold. At this point in the search for DeOrr Kunz Jr, his dad was praising SAR and speaking in depth of the operation to find his son. I wonder if we will hear from Jarold's mom/parents. It must be difficult to remain optimistic. I don't know if there was a scanner thread for DeOrr where people followed the first few days of that search but it has to be so hard finding a shoe print and possibly hearing a child's yells and not being able to locate him.

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Well, the Colorado City community is making food for the searchers, so I'd guess they're pretty appreciative and as I linked on Deorr's thread, many families of missing people have praised the searchers early on. I sure would. I'd want them to keep looking for gosh's sake!

In any event, if they are FLDS as I assume, we won't be hearing much from them. They shy from media.

 

[gitana1]

I can't believe he hasn't been found yet.

Me either. I think the weather has been a big issue though. Poor baby.

 

[katydid23]

I thought they were having hail storms and mud slides today.

On another note - Today is 3 days into the search for Jarold. At this point in the search for DeOrr Kunz Jr, his dad was praising SAR and speaking in depth of the operation to find his son. I wonder if we will hear from Jarold's mom/parents. It must be difficult to remain optimistic. I don't know if there was a scanner thread for DeOrr where people followed the first few days of that search but it has to be so hard finding a shoe print and possibly hearing a child's yells and not being able to locate him.

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They are 100 miles east, in the Tuba City area. They plan to go into the Grand Canyon tomorrow, but are aware of the possible thunderstorms/

 

[steelman]

Thank you for your no-nonesense/good sense posts. You ought to join a SAR unit. Does anyone know if there are statistics on how often SAR teams are successful on the searches they do? In other words, what is their "find" rate?

I appreciate the compliment, but no thanks. Judging by what I've seen, their "find rate" lately is probably about 10%. It's no wonder they don't publish the stats.

I live in the same terrain, same State, just 180 miles to the east in a little town called Show Low, Az. I would never fit into a SAR unit because I don't like the regiment and the restrictions. Even today, as a storm approached, they called all the searchers in and ordered them to report back to the command center.

Why ? If little 5 year old Jerold can get wet, so can I, not to mention the fact that someone who was really prepared would have a disposable plastic poncho available knowing it is the rainy season in Arizona. Are the searchers so vulnerable and so ch%^en %*it that they need to hide and protect themselves from the same rainstorm the missing person is facing ? A grown man is afraid to face the same rainstorm that a lost 5 year old has to face ?

You have to be a team player, and do as ordered..........or you're out. I don't like taking orders from A$%*les. A person is missing and they need help, the last thing they need is a chain-of-command structure where the searchers are more concerned about their own safety than the person in trouble.

That's not my style. Common sense is my style, not military type structuring that doesn't yield any results......sort of like these search efforts.

 

[cbanning]

<modsnip>I imagine that they called the searchers in because of the lightning associated with the storms that moved through earlier, not that they are afraid to get wet. What use are the searchers if they become victims themselves? That is common sense. I'm sure you heard of the group of hikers on the Rim that got struck by lightning not too long ago. I know some of these people and they are good folks and will do everything possible to find this child.

 

[AmyPond]

Some parents aren't as diligent as you. Doesn't mean they're bad parents or that it is impossible for a child to go missing in their care. And sometimes really bad things happen to the most diligent parents who might have super bad luck one tragic time.

I think you may have misunderstood my post. I didn't say anyone was a bad parent or that it was an impossible scenario. I just said I can't understand how it happens...as in, it's just shocking. It could happen to anyone. That's why it's so scary to me.

 

[iamnotagolem]

My new neighbor is on SAR, we've known him for 3 weeks now, he was called in for SAR 3 days last week, and at least one other incident in the time we've known him. In both cases the missing people were found (all deceased) within 3 days of going missing.

I wonder if all SAR teams have the same training, if there are higher incident areas, they may be better trained and more equipped to find and rescue or recover a missing person.

In our last town there were 5 different missing person cases locally that SAR was involved with that rescued all but 1 who is presumed dead and not recovered due to the treacherous area/weather involved, she was presumed dead w/in minutes of slipping into the icy river and her body has not been recovered.

 

[cbanning]

They are using some citizens. Have you called and put your name on the list?

 

[steelman]

They are using some citizens. Have you called and put your name on the list?

No, I live 200 miles to the east, I don't know the area, and I don't know the trails in the area. They don't need me searching, they need people searching that know the area like the back of their hand. Ranchers, hunters, locals, hunting guides, indians.........anybody that has lived and played there for 20 years. That's who should be searching for this kid. These are people that know the backroads, the game trails, the logging roads and the shortcuts.

Those locals have been cut out of it, because they didn't sign up and "train" to be on a SAR team. Why would they sign up ? They don't want to be hero's, they just live around there.

The locals have been replaced by "trained" search teams that are totally unfamiliar with the search area. Uh-huh.


Disgraceful.......and it may cost this kid his life.

<modsnip>

 

[renarde]

I would think, with the heat, that Jerold would've taken some of those layers of clothes off. I wonder if anything has been found yet?

 

[steelman]

I would think, with the heat, that Jerold would've taken some of those layers of clothes off. I wonder if anything has been found yet?

So far they have found two pieces of trace evidence to my knowledge. They found a shoe print with a star shape in the heel on 8/7. Jerolds mother confirmed that the shoes he was wearing had a star shape embedded in the heel of the shoe.

Yesterday, 8/9, a searcher called in something else that was found within a few hundred feet of the shoeprint previously found. To my knowledge, what that item was never was identified over the public airways.
There was vague chatter about something having to do with water, such as a water bottle or something that could hold water....but nothing definitive was ever put out over the airwaves.

Below is a map I made up showing the locations of these events. You can zoom in and out with the center wheel on your mouse for closer views. You can highlight the items in the menu to the left and read the descriptions. You can also scroll over the different items on the map for a description.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zAAmDUXJe_aE.kcsOUmM2GJ3A&usp=sharing

 

[renarde]

So far they have found two pieces of trace evidence to my knowledge. They found a shoe print with a star shape in the heel on 8/7. Jerolds mother confirmed that the shoes he was wearing had a star shape embedded in the heel of the shoe.

Yesterday, 8/9, a searcher called in something else that was found within a few hundred feet of the shoeprint previously found. To my knowledge, what that item was never was identified over the public airways.
There was vague chatter about something having to do with water, such as a water bottle or something that could hold water....but nothing definitive was ever put out over the airwaves.

Below is a map I made up showing the locations of these events. You can zoom in and out with the center wheel on your mouse for closer views. You can highlight the items in the menu to the left and read the descriptions. You can also scroll over the different items on the map for a description.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zAAmDUXJe_aE.kcsOUmM2GJ3A&usp=sharing

How far from the campsite were those two items?

I've seen kids throw off clothes at much lower temperatures, especially if they are active.

 

[steelman]

How far from the campsite were those two items?

I've seen kids throw off clothes at much lower temperatures, especially if they are active.

12 miles

 

[renarde]

12 miles

12 as in... twelve?

 

[steelman]

12 as in... twelve?

Yes....they found the tracks about 36 hours after he disappeared. This kid was walking and moving........trying to find his way back home.

The average adult walks at the pace of about 3 miles per hour, so in 4 hours, you could walk 12 miles.

He walked through the forest for 36 hours.....and went 12 miles. Makes sense.

Don't forget, the first night he was lost, he may have wandered aimlessly all night long. He may have had enough moonlight to follow a dirt road or a fire service road for miles.

 

[renarde]

Yes....they found the tracks about 36 hours after he disappeared. This kid was walking and moving........trying to find his way back home.

The average adult walks at the pace of about 3 miles per hour, so in 4 hours, you could walk 12 miles.

He walked through the forest for 36 hours.....and went 12 miles. Makes sense.

Don't forget, the first night he was lost, he may have wandered aimlessly all night long. He may have had enough moonlight to follow a dirt road or a fire service road for miles.

Wow. Poor little guy with the stars on the soles of his shoes... I think he will be found though.

 

[Advocate4]

Calling ... stopping to listen ... is good, and I agree. But, if he has not had water, I'd be surprised at this point if he can manage to shout or call loud enough to be heard beyond a few yards.

 

[audsmommy]

12 miles? Oh my goodness. My 8 year old barely made a 4 mile hike yesterday. There was a lot of whining and way too many breaks. I can't imagine him hiking 12 miles. Crazy.

 

[GigTu]

No, I live 200 miles to the east, I don't know the area, and I don't know the trails in the area. They don't need me searching, they need people searching that know the area like the back of their hand. Ranchers, hunters, locals, hunting guides, indians.........anybody that has lived and played there for 20 years. That's who should be searching for this kid. These are people that know the backroads, the game trails, the logging roads and the shortcuts.

Those locals have been cut out of it, because they didn't sign up and "train" to be on a SAR team. Why would they sign up ? They don't want to be hero's, they just live around there.

The locals have been replaced by "trained" search teams that are totally unfamiliar with the search area. Uh-huh.

Disgraceful.......and it may cost this kid his life.

<modsnip>

We'll keep you and use your brain right here. Hopefully, LE really do actually read these threads for ideas and tips as has been touted.