AZ - Lori Vallow Daybell charged w/ conspiring to kill ex-husband Charles Vallow and another relative, Brandon Boudreaux, Chandler, Maricopa County #2

[iamshadow21]

Which piece of evidence authored by Lori will be the most damning for her? "You will be like Nephi" or "He must have changed it before we got rid of him"?

I think that depends on whether people know the story of Nephi murdering Laban to get the brass plates he refused to sell him.

If you know the story, it's easy to spin it as a justification of killing for material gain being okay in the eyes of God, if that's what you're about, which Lori very much was.

If you're not au fait with the Book of Mormon, it might be too obscure to signify as the clanger it does to those who do know it.

MOO

 

[aafromaa]

IMO, MG did not have enough information that would not fall under hearsay. In Charles' murder Lori only seemed to have kept Chad and MBP in the loop. For everyone else they pretended it was self defense.

I think MG could testify to what LVD said when she told her she had to leave the day before CV was killed without it being hearsay because it was a statement of a party-opponent - but I’m not a lawyer so not positive on that. Still she could testify that she was at LVDs and thought she was spending that night with her but the plans were changed and she left - without ever saying what LVD said. State could then ask if she was the one who changed the plans and she would answer no and jury would know LVD changed the plan without MG ever saying anything LVD said.

 

[lonetraveler]

I see it differently. IMO the "crazy religious stuff" is a tool adopted by LVD to gain power to manipulate others using their gullibility and fear about the state of the world around them. Just as the sexual appeal and sing-song cadence of her voice are tools to manipulate men and the tornado of talking and accusatory tones are tools to manipulate those who prefer to avoid conflict. She is a master at identifying and exploiting other people's vulnerabilities and weaknesses.

I think it likely that she saw the power Chad seemed to have over others with his stories about the coming end times and the chosen people and she wanted to share in that. And I do believe she had a particular inclination to have that in her life because when young she saw her own father as a "spiritual giant" and saw what she believed were the magnificent possibilities in having that power. IMO, the pursuit of that power and the adoption of the stories that would provide it is not the same thing as "religious delusions."

MOO and I do respect those who see it differently. We simply cannot know what is truly in her mind because we are reliant on her to tell us and she is a world-class liar.

But I do think it is a big "tell" that she is very selective about when and with whom she shares details. She has kept the truth about exactly what happened with JJ and Tylee within the small conspirator group (LVD, Chad, Alex) while lying to close others who shared in the doomsday teachings by implying that the kids were secured somewhere safe. (And more recently the lie has become "family tragedies" that include wrongdoing on Tylee's part.). She shared details with those people about fringe teachings while keeping the lid on those teachings with others who weren't part of those groups. And there don't seem to be any apparent signs that she was actually "preparing" as others in the fringe groups were - no building up of stores of food, charcoal, supplies. And she and Chad went off to Hawaii - rather than staying in Rexburg where these groups apparently believed the second coming or the preparation for it was to be.

To me, LVD uses the doomsday stuff like Manson used "Helter-Skelter." Neither really believed it; they both just saw the value of the power of those ideas in manipulating others and escaping accountability themselves.

A "like" wasn't enough. I believe that LVD was the manipulator who used sex to lure Chad Daybell into the murders of his wife and her two children. I don't believe that Chad would have ever murdered anyone, until he met LVD. However, that said, I do believe that LVD would have murdered the children and her husband as soon as she found a man who would become a fool for her.

 

[indicolite22]

I think that depends on whether people know the story of Nephi murdering Laban to get the brass plates he refused to sell him.

If you know the story, it's easy to spin it as a justification of killing for material gain being okay in the eyes of God, if that's what you're about, which Lori very much was.

If you're not au fait with the Book of Mormon, it might be too obscure to signify as the clanger it does to those who do know it.

MOO

I think the point is that Lori predicted that someone would get killed (justifiably to her). That's not self-defense.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Listen to Lauren and the deceased Tammy's aunt Vicki talk about Lori's reactions to Kay.

@13:32

 

[wnk]

<snipped> I think they made a mistake by not calling MG who could have testified that she was at LVD’s on the 10th and thought she was spending the night and then out of the blue LVD told her she had to leave because AC was coming to spend the night instead. To me that clearly points to LVD & AC conspiring together. So I am very puzzled that they left her off the witness list.

IMO, I don't think the prosecution would want LVD to cross-examine her. I think MG has lied and changed her story a LOT in the last six years, in an attempt to justify herself in her own mind. Her perjuring herself (which I think would be VERY likely) would just make the prosecution look bad. I think they know, too, that she's never really told them *everything,* and if LVD's the one questioning her, there's a good chance she'd get MG to say something that the prosecution doesn't even know about and isn't prepared to address.

 

[indicolite22]

A "like" wasn't enough. I believe that LVD was the manipulator who used sex to lure Chad Daybell into the murders of his wife and her two children. I don't believe that Chad would have ever murdered anyone, until he met LVD. However, that said, I do believe that LVD would have murdered the children and her husband as soon as she found a man who would become a fool for her.

Chad told Julie Rowe in 2014 that he had a vision that Tammy would die young and she agreed. Apparently she did not agree to making it happen, but Lori did.

 

[lonetraveler]

Chad told Julie Rowe in 2014 that he had a vision that Tammy would die young and she agreed. Apparently she didn't not agree to making it happen, but Lori did.

Well, that's something I definitely will think about.

 

[iamshadow21]

Well, that's something I definitely will think about.

I think in this case, it's not about a pairing that is a dominant driving force and a submissive partner, one who might have never done anything.

Chad and Lori are equals who amplified the worst, most amoral urges in each other but didn't create them. They already existed. They validated and egged each other on, and together developed a plan to manipulate, steal, and murder their way to the existence they craved.

Both had murder in their hearts before they ever met. They truly are soulmates.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I think MG could testify to what LVD said when she told her she had to leave the day before CV was killed without it being hearsay because it was a statement of a party-opponent - but I’m not a lawyer so not positive on that. Still she could testify that she was at LVDs and thought she was spending that night with her but the plans were changed and she left - without ever saying what LVD said. State could then ask if she was the one who changed the plans and she would answer no and jury would know LVD changed the plan without MG ever saying anything LVD said.

I don't think that evidence was strong enough to point to murder. There were other people more involved who won't testify, for example Lori's sister. IIRC, she once stated that it was her who asked Alex to stay at Lori's that night. Lori also lied to Colby about Charles' cause of death (she claimed he had a heart attack) and he's not on the list.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Listen to Lauren and the deceased Tammy's aunt Vicki talk about Lori's reactions to Kay.

@13:32

Interesting discussion on why the jury isn't asking questions about the children.
Where are they?
Do they know?
The jurors eat lunch with everyone else around them including the media who talk.
Discuss that in pre-trial hearing one of LVD's murder conviction will be allowed into this trial.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1910832375547732287

 

[indicolite22]

Interesting discussion on why the jury isn't asking questions about the children.
Where are they?
Do they know?
The jurors eat lunch with everyone else around them including the media who talk.
Discuss that in pre-trial hearing one of LVD's murder conviction will be allowed into this trial.

One of the current jurors self-reported that they were shown a yt video about the case but didn't remember any details. What if it dawned on them later that Lori was a triple murderer?

 

[Izzylizzy]

I think that depends on whether people know the story of Nephi murdering Laban to get the brass plates he refused to sell him.

If you know the story, it's easy to spin it as a justification of killing for material gain being okay in the eyes of God, if that's what you're about, which Lori very much was.

If you're not au fait with the Book of Mormon, it might be too obscure to signify as the clanger it does to those who do know it.

MOO

I had no idea who they were and we don't know the religions of any of the jurors so there could also be those who are clueless.
I thought Lori and her "translated" was maybe a translator who interpreted those talking in tongues.

Three Nephite Disciples​

• See also Disciple; Nephites; Translated Beings

Three Nephite Disciples

Three Nephite Disciples

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

 

[iamshadow21]

I had no idea who they were and we don't know the religions of any of the jurors so there could also be those who are clueless.
I thought Lori and her "translated" was maybe a translator who interpreted those talking in tongues.

Three Nephite Disciples​

• See also Disciple; Nephites; Translated Beings

Three Nephite Disciples

Three Nephite Disciples

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Nope, translated in LDS doctrine means someone gets made immortal by God without them having died and been resurrected.

There are a handful of figures from both the Bible and the Book of Mormon that LDS doctrine says were translated.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I had no idea who they were and we don't know the religions of any of the jurors so there could also be those who are clueless.
I thought Lori and her "translated" was maybe a translator who interpreted those talking in tongues.

Three Nephite Disciples​

• See also Disciple; Nephites; Translated Beings

Three Nephite Disciples

Three Nephite Disciples

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Wasn't Adam asked to explain the Nephi story by the prosecution? He also mentioned the translation process as becoming an immortal being.

 

[Izzylizzy]

One of the current jurors self-reported that they were shown a yt video about the case but didn't remember any details. What if it dawned on them later that Lori was a triple murderer?

IIRC:
He told the judge that he remembered seeing it when he saw the part where LVD was asked by LE for her driver's license.
This was when she pulled up to her house after CV was inside it deceased.
It's not that I disbelieve the jurors claim that they know nothing about LVD I just can't understand it due to the media coverage once the children were reported missing.
I'm in Vermont and I remember the news and didn't follow the case yet knew when the couple was arrested and also guilty all from the TV news, again not following the case and trial.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Nope, translated in LDS doctrine means someone gets made immortal by God without them having died and been resurrected.

There are a handful of figures from both the Bible and the Book of Mormon that LDS doctrine says were translated.

MOO

Exactly, but not being a Mormon I had no idea and some jurors also may not have any idea what LVD was going on about.
That is why I posted the link after I looked it up.

 

[aafromaa]

IMO, I don't think the prosecution would want LVD to cross-examine her. I think MG has lied and changed her story a LOT in the last six years, in an attempt to justify herself in her own mind. Her perjuring herself (which I think would be VERY likely) would just make the prosecution look bad. I think they know, too, that she's never really told them *everything,* and if LVD's the one questioning her, there's a good chance she'd get MG to say something that the prosecution doesn't even know about and isn't prepared to address.

I know a lot of WSers agree with your view of MG but I’ve never really understood the hostility toward her. Others may have said it too, but you’re the first one I’ve actually seen say she lied. Can you give me some examples? I do think she told her story in the best light she could for herself but wasn’t aware she actually lied or changed her story - only that she was foolish for not seeing things sooner and that she had trouble keeping dates straight or events in chronological order but I sort of attributed that to memory and wasn’t really thinking of it as lies or changing her story. I’d really like to know more about why so many have such a suspicious opinion of her. (More about what did I miss than it is about her )

 

[indicolite22]

IIRC:
He told the judge that he remembered seeing it when he saw the part where LVD was asked by LE for her driver's license.
This was when she pulled up to her house after CV was inside it deceased.
It's not that I disbelieve the jurors claim that they know nothing about LVD I just can't understand it due to the media coverage once the children were reported missing.
I'm in Vermont and I remember the news and didn't follow the case yet knew when the couple was arrested and also guilty all from the TV news, again not following the case and trial.

Some people don't follow the news at all.