AZ - Man who followed teen into Phoenix restroom beaten to death by girl's father, 2 Aug. 2018

[glamourkitty1922]

Unless something bit comes up, I believe the father and the daughter. If I were on the jury, I would consider a misdemeanor public disturbance, but not a felony.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Sincere apologies that I am now just finding time to respond to a question that has cropped up about any arrest record for the victim.

Leon Armstrong, the victim in this case, "had a criminal history of shoplifting, trespassing and obstructing police." He is not on the sex offender registry. So far, nobody has been able to locate one single thing that suggests there were any arrests for anything related to any sex crime, or any domestic violence.

Melvin Harris, the accused in this case, has an arrest record for arson and domestic violence.

Any member who refers to this victim having a history as a pedophile, or refers to him as a pervert, a child molester, rapist, etc will face temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges. Let the facts come out before resorting to affixing labels to a deceased victim.

Thank you Sillybilly!

 

[flourish]

Who are these "witnesses"? Street people?

Customers of nearby businesses, random passers-by, whoever was nearby, maybe even people who live on the street? Is there a problem with that if they are?

 

[flute4peace]

As far as I can tell, daughter was no longer at risk when father confronted the victim.
Hard to see that considered self-defense or defense of others under the law.

I agree. If Dad had been in the bathroom and pulled the guy off the door as he was trying to bust in then yes. If it was after the fact it’s way overkill. Dad’s actions, while understandable, were wrong.

I should add that i have two teen daughters of which i am very protective.

 

[flute4peace]

I don't think anyone's calling this self defense. Are they?

No, they’re calling it justice, which is even more concerning. IMHO.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Customers of nearby businesses, random passers-by, whoever was nearby, maybe even people who live on the street? Is there a problem with that if they are?

Yes, if they're not honest, then they shouldn't be believed. You've watched trials before, I'm sure. You know the background of the witness is very important.

 

[flourish]

Yes, if they're not honest, then they shouldn't be believed. You've watched trials before, I'm sure. You know the background of the witness is very important.

Why would you assume these witnesses won't be truthful? What do you mean by the background, exactly, and again what does being a "street person" have to do with it?

 

[flourish]

No, what we know is that he had “done that” before. We don’t know what “that” is and, frankly, it’s hearsay anyway.

Assuming the man is a pedophile worthy of vigilante death with no remorse from what little information we have is a frightening stretch.

An employee unlocked a dressing room at a GoodWill once while my daughter was changing. He knocked and she apparently didn’t answer loud enough for him to hear her so thought it was empty. Scared the crap out of her. He walked off without saying anything to her, i assume due to being awkward & embarrassed. I felt angry and protective but it never crossed my mind that he was a pedophile.

Goodwill employs and trains people with disabilities and other barriers to employment. Not everyone who works there is neuro-typical.

ETA when I worked there we did have some sex offenders in our DD program but they didn't work in the stores or without a supervisor present at all times.

 

[flute4peace]

It makes a lot of difference. Intent is a big part of our legal system. The fact he didn't beat him to death means he wasn't planning to kill him. He was probably surprised to hear the perv died.

It’s too bad the victim - and he IS a victim - doesn’t have the chance to clarify his intent in a court of law.

As to the Dad, the fact that he hit & kicked the man AFTER THE FACT goes to intent to commit assault. Had he pulled the man off the bathroom stall door and slugged him in the heat of the moment then yea, i can understand hitting the guy to free the daughter. But this was not the case. Dad went after him with full intent of assault. The death occurred as a direct reault of that premeditated assault.

 

[flute4peace]

Goodwill employs and trains people with disabilities and other barriers to employment. Not everyone who works there is neuro-typical.

ETA when I worked there we did have some sex offenders in our DD program but they didn't work in the stores or without a supervisor present at all times.

Right. Which is exactly why I didn’t say anything. It was an obvious accident on his part. He meant no harm and was as embarrassed as she was. But if i went by some of the opinions in this thread i should have beaten the **** out of him.

I think i better take a little break...

 

[flute4peace]

And she apparently got her info from the store employee(s) and we don't know how accurate the information is.

I've worked with people with disabilities for decades. Sometimes one of them will use a public restroom and depending on their level of independence, they may walk ahead of staff. Depending on the types of bathroom signs, they may enter the incorrect restroom. They don't need to die for it, nor are they being perverts.

Once in a fast food restaurant bathroom, I opened a stall which was unlocked with no feet visible underneath the door. However there was a little girl sitting on the toilet. No adult present. Of course I apologized and went to another stall. However, the little girl could have gone out and told her adult that i walked in on her and while true it was not nefarious not intentional. I don't deserve to die for that. It's too bad there isn't any opportunity for clarification here.

Still waiting for the link proving the victim had a record. Which still doesn't excuse getting beaten to death.

AMEN

 

[flute4peace]

<modsnip: snipped quote>

We don’t even know if he knew who was in the bathroom nor if she looked like an adult at 16. I have a 14 yr old who is regularly mistaken for a college student. We don’t know who was in the other bathroom stalls he allegedly attempted to enter nor do we know which bathroom it was in. Heck we don’t even know if he did anything other than rattle the door. Is there a link that says he battered in the door? My guess is the Dad didn’t know, either. No offense whatsoever to the girl, but at that age and with a scary situation she may not have been very clear in what she told Dad. That’s completely understandable.

The girl is not a victim. She wasn’t hurt. Scared for sure, but not hurt. Dad did not save her life. She was already safe.

Ok - break.

 

[flute4peace]

Sincere apologies that I am now just finding time to respond to a question that has cropped up about any arrest record for the victim.

Leon Armstrong, the victim in this case, "had a criminal history of shoplifting, trespassing and obstructing police." He is not on the sex offender registry. So far, nobody has been able to locate one single thing that suggests there were any arrests for anything related to any sex crime, or any domestic violence.

Melvin Harris, the accused in this case, has an arrest record for arson and domestic violence.

Any member who refers to this victim having a history as a pedophile, or refers to him as a pervert, a child molester, rapist, etc will face temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges. Let the facts come out before resorting to affixing labels to a deceased victim.

Not at all surprised to see Dad’s history.

I feel awful for the girl. I hope she has a soft place to land and will be able to get counseling.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

We don’t even know if he knew who was in the bathroom nor jf she looked like an adult at 16. I have a 14 yr old who is regularly mistaken for a college student. We don’t know who was in the other bathroom stalls he allegedly attempted to enter nor do we know which bathroom it was in. Heck we don’t even know if he did anything other than rattle the door. Is there a link that says he battered in the door? My guess is the Dad didn’t know, either. No offense whatsoever to the girl, but at that age and with a scary situation she may not have been very clear in what she told Dad. That’s completely understandable.

The girl is not a victim. She wasn’t hurt. Scared for sure, but not hurt. Dad did not save her life. She was already safe.

Ok - break.

The girl was the victim, she was terrorized.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Not at all surprised to see Dad’s history.

I feel awful for the girl. I hope she has a soft place to land and will be able to get counseling.

She was treated horribly by both the man trying to get to her in the bathroom and from the public, who are basically calling her a liar and worse. I saw an interview with her, she is so sad. She is just a child and doesn't deserve any of this.

 

[flute4peace]

The girl was the victim, she was terrorized.

Now that we can agree on. Watching your Dad beat a guy to death would certainly be terrifying.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Why would you assume these witnesses won't be truthful? What do you mean by the background, exactly, and again what does being a "street person" have to do with it?

I'm talking about the homeless. Usually there is a reason they are homeless. I have to admit personal knowledge of the area, QT, and the homeless population there. My son worked there while taking classes to become a police officer. The stories he had to tell! Whenever you go to one of those stores, always use plastic or exact change.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Now that we can agree on. Watching your Dad beat a guy to death would certainly be terrifying.

Being threatened in a bathroom is what's terrorizing for a child. Can you imagine the fear she experienced with some guy trying to get at her?

 

[flourish]

Sincere apologies that I am now just finding time to respond to a question that has cropped up about any arrest record for the victim.

Leon Armstrong, the victim in this case, "had a criminal history of shoplifting, trespassing and obstructing police." He is not on the sex offender registry. So far, nobody has been able to locate one single thing that suggests there were any arrests for anything related to any sex crime, or any domestic violence.

Melvin Harris, the accused in this case, has an arrest record for arson and domestic violence.

Any member who refers to this victim having a history as a pedophile, or refers to him as a pervert, a child molester, rapist, etc will face temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges. Let the facts come out before resorting to affixing labels to a deceased victim.

Bumping. This clearly states Leon Armstrong is the victim in this case.

It could be argued that the daughter is a victim of her father, too, though, as well as Armstrong.

 

[flourish]

I'm talking about the homeless. Usually there is a reason they are homeless. I have to admit personal knowledge of the area, QT, and the homeless population there. My son worked there while taking classes to become a police officer. The stories he had to tell! Whenever you go to one of those stores, always use plastic or exact change.

There are a lot of reasons someone may be homeless. So what?

Are you saying just because someone is homeless they automatically aren't a valid witness?

I've been homeless. I find your implications incredibly offensive.