GUILTY AZ - Six killed, 13 injured in shooting at Gabrielle Giffords event, 8 Jan 2011 - #1

[hndinglove]

There are a bunch of articles coming out which include interviews with friends of Loughner:

ABC:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jared...lle-giffords-shooter-school/story?id=12575278

WSJ, a very good one:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071191163461466.html

Most tellingly, the Associated Press:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...D4uSYw?docId=c09a07a17e1b4aaa82815779cbf6f758

a sentence from that one is telling: "He appeared to be to me an emotional cripple or an emotional child," Coorough said. "He lacked compassion, he lacked understanding and he lacked an ability to connect."

 

[scandi]

Giffords' campaign chairman: 'We just have to wait and see'

"The doctors are pretty clear that we just have to wait and see," Mike McNulty told CNN in an exclusive interview.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/01/09/arizona.giffords.chairman/index.html?hpt=T1

Hi Nancy, Last night I watched this coverage for hours and think Dr Baden's replies were more informative than Dr Gupta's {sp}. I was left with a question tho as at first we learned the bullet entered her temple and only went a short distance thru the bone and brain, exiting thru her forehead. A straight shot thru and thru.

Then last night Dr Gupta mentioned it entered the temple and went a short distance, exiting out the back of her head.

I'm wondering if anyone else heard this about the back of the head? I guess it depends on if he approached her from the front or the back.

Interesting, as I also learned there are parts of the brain that are not used and will adapt to compensate for losses in other parts of the brain.

 

[sorrell skye]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071191163461466.html

In one YouTube video Mr. Loughner posted online, he said he was an Army recruit at Military Entrance Processing Station in Phoenix. An Army spokesman confirmed that Mr. Loughner "attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service."

A person familiar with the matter said he wasn't accepted because of a failed drug test.

 

[sorrell skye]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071191163461466.html

snipped

Mr. Loughner had complained to a friend about how he was treated by the Arizona lawmaker during an event several years ago, which aggravated Mr. Loughner, according to the friend.

snipped

Mr. Montanaro said his friend "was never really political," but "really tried to be philosophical." Mr. Loughner liked "contemplating the meaning of words and the origin of language," Mr. Montanaro said.

That interest might have triggered Mr. Loughner's first meeting with Ms. Giffords in 2007. Mr. Loughner said he asked the lawmaker, "How do you know words mean anything?" recalled Mr. Montanaro. He said Mr. Loughner was "aggravated" when Ms. Giffords, after pausing for a couple of seconds, "responded to him in Spanish and moved on with the meeting."

 

[panthera]

Hi Nancy, Last night I watched this coverage for hours and think Dr Baden's replies were more informative than Dr Gupta's {sp}. I was left with a question tho as at first we learned the bullet entered her temple and only went a short distance thru the bone and brain, exiting thru her forehead. A straight shot thru and thru.

Then last night Dr Gupta mentioned it entered the temple and went a short distance, exiting out the back of her head.

I'm wondering if anyone else heard this about the back of the head? I guess it depends on if he approached her from the front or the back.

Interesting, as I also learned there are parts of the brain that are not used and will adapt to compensate for losses in other parts of the brain.

I've been watching Fox News for the past hour or so and it was also mentioned part of her skull has been removed. I wonder if this is to relieve pressure on the brain? There wasn't any explanation given. I also believed the gunman shot her from behind. :waitasec: MOO

 

[sorrell skye]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...D4uSYw?docId=c09a07a17e1b4aaa82815779cbf6f758

Between February and September, Loughner "had five contacts with PCC police for classroom and library disruptions," the statement said. He was suspended in September 2010 after college police discovered a YouTube video in which Loughner claimed the college was illegal according to the U.S. Constitution. He withdrew voluntarily the following month, and was told he could return only if, among other things, a mental health professional agreed he did not present a danger, the school said.

It was at the college that Loughner had posed his question to Giffords about government and words, one friend said. A college spokesman said Giffords often has used school property for open events; a Giffords spokesman said he was not sure at which event the exchange would have taken place.

 

[panthera]

Geraldo is speaking with the chief of neurosurgery, Dr. Michael Lemole.

Gabrielle's condition same as this morning at the time of the press release. Secondary concerns (brain swelling) last three days or longer. Cautiously optimistic. Doesn't help to speculate how she will recover. Optimistic because she was able to follow simple commands before and after surgery.

Also reporting the attorney who represented the Unibomber will be representing the defendant in court tomorrow.

 

[Nancy2441]

From Fox News:

Surgeons had to remove part of Giffords’ skull, most likely employing what’s called a decompressive craniectomy, to allow the swelling brain to expand without being squeezed – something Alvarez said is indicative to the severity of the injury.
“Right now, in half of her brain, she doesn't have a skull,” Rhee told reporters. “It’s preserved in the hospital right now so we can re-implant that later on.”


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/...reatment-key-giffords-survival/#ixzz1AbAiX13Y

 

[panthera]

Geraldo is talking now with Joe Zamudio who helped restrain the suspect. Another hero! He said he himself was armed but didn't fire his weapon because the suspect was already being held down and he felt they could hold him down until police arrived. Geraldo asked him how old he is and he said he's 24.

 

[blue_the_puppy]

you can see her baby picture from the Faces of Hope book.
here. Just scroll down to Christina Taylor from Maryland.

Rest in Peace, sweetie.

 

[panthera]

From Fox News:

Surgeons had to remove part of Giffords’ skull, most likely employing what’s called a decompressive craniectomy, to allow the swelling brain to expand without being squeezed – something Alvarez said is indicative to the severity of the injury.
“Right now, in half of her brain, she doesn't have a skull,” Rhee told reporters. “It’s preserved in the hospital right now so we can re-implant that later on.”


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/...reatment-key-giffords-survival/#ixzz1AbAiX13Y

I always finding it amazing what modern medicine can do; and continue to pray for her full recovery. rayer:

 

[panthera]

Rest in Peace, precious Christina :rose: Gone too soon........

 

[scandi]

I always finding it amazing what modern medicine can do; and continue to pray for her full recovery. rayer:

Me too Panthera, Dr Gupta is a brain surgeon and I have heard him say before it is one area of medicine where they have a lot to learn.


The thought of her lying in bed, knowing they have removed 1/2 of her skull is just so extreme and hard to bear. We have to be thankful medicine has progressed to be able to relieve pressure on the brain. I have a good feeling she will live and be fine. xox

 

[scandi]

Patriot Guard Riders

{mod snip}

I heard the bullet entered from the back of the head and exited above her left eye. Left side of the brain that controls speech. That's why they are optimistic because she can understand commands. Asked to hold up two fingers and she did before and after her surgery.

They did remove the one side of her skull due to swelling. I heard another brain surgeon on tv today and he explained a lot of stuff real well. How they store the skull "flap" which is the part they cut out and freeze it until it's ready to be replaced.

Thanks for that info Dr Know.

BTW, There is a thread in the Parking Lot for the WBC as I understand it is not suppose to be brought up outside the PL. Dreadful tho, eh?

 

[mankato64]

Tomorrow 2pm MST is the pre-lim hearing for this at the Sandra Day O'Conner Federal Court House in dwntwn PHX. All news channels in PHX will carry it live and stream it on the web. This court house is new, couple of years old and has glass walls, security is going to be tight.
Also the State of the State address is going to be held at the capitol tomorrow as well, lots of security in dwntwn PHX tomorrow.

 

[Herding Cats]

I agree that he is likely suffering from some form of mental illness. Since his thought processes seem to be more or less organized (as opposed to word salad), I'm thinking maybe delusional disorder. What do you think?

I knew a p'schizo who, startlingly, has great continuity and sense in his discussions. Problem is, what he discussed was not real. Disorganized thinking does not go hand in glove in mental illness - it's a symptom; and like any other symptom, it does not have to be present to make the diagnosis.m Or, if present, is perhaps not always present. I don't see much disorganized thinking in Loughner,

I do believe that his psychosis, no matter which kind, has delusions. Lots of different MIs have delusions, though, as symptoms. They say that approximately 90% of schizophrenics have delusions; that's a pretty high percentage, so I'm thinking the odds Loughner has delusions is pretty good.

One of the speech/language tendencies of schizophrenics is perseveration, meaning fixation on a particular topic, and I mean fixated. In Loughner's writing, you see a fixation, and a repetitiousness of that fixation, on certain ideas, and a repetitive, rhythmic sort of circle logic that evidences, at least to me, some sort of paranoid aspect, as well as perseveration; both classic presentations of p'schizo.

And what I have always found fascinating in p'schizo diagnosis/prognosis, is that because they are able to fixate/perseverate on an idea, they can more easily be treated (if they accept medication), and their prognosis is better than one of the other subtypes of schizophrenia. They think that's because there is a coherent flow (such as it is) of idea/thought/action/reaction, and that can be lost in the other kinds of schizophrenia.

I also think he knew something was pretty wrong; he did use drugs to medicate himself; pot would've likely dulled the feelings of persecution, and helped him cope with the world around him.

I really do think he's p'schizo...btw, that doesn't necessarily mean he's mentally incompetent to stand trial. Our jails are filled with folks who are schizophrenic, you know?

And if he is p'schizo, and fixated on Giffords in '07, I am left wondering where his parents were in all of this...

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[LadyL]

I realize it's pointless to try & make sense of his thoughts/actions but I have to express this thought:

if he was anti-gov't, why would he want to join the army? to gain survivial/gun skills & become a homegrown terrorist? and if so, was someone advising him to do that?

or did the irony/hypocrisy even occur to him I wonder?

 

[LadyL]

Me too Panthera, Dr Gupta is a brain surgeon and I have heard him say before it is one area of medicine where they have a lot to learn.


The thought of her lying in bed, knowing they have removed 1/2 of her skull is just so extreme and hard to bear. We have to be thankful medicine has progressed to be able to relieve pressure on the brain. I have a good feeling she will live and be fine. xox

I thought shunts were used to relieve pressure ... I had no idea they would remove part of a skull!

 

[mankato64]

LadyL I like your post.

What I am curious about is what was on that letter that Congresswoman Giffords wrote to the suspect in 2007 that was found in his safe.

Prayers and well wishes to all

 

[Herding Cats]

The thought of her lying in bed, knowing they have removed 1/2 of her skull is just so extreme and hard to bear. We have to be thankful medicine has progressed to be able to relieve pressure on the brain. I have a good feeling she will live and be fine.

I was so blessed to have done a month in neuro...I love the science of the brain. One of the things I saw was this procedure, skull removal secondary to brain swelling.

They do put a flexible sterile covering back over the open area, so the brain is not exposed, but the skull is removed so that the brain has a place to go if it swells.

The graphic I saw showed the trajectory of the bullet entering behind the left ear, traveling pretty straight through the left hemisphere of the brain, and exiting out the left forehead. I imagine the part of the skull removed was the left part. If you take your hand and put it level with your ear, spread your fingers forward, and come over towards your eye and nose, I suspect that's the part that has been removed.

Something which I heard the Drs saying which the talking heads have managed to miscatagorized is saying that she's in a medically induced coma. From what I understand, she's seriously sedated, but not in a coma. There is a fine line, but it's a huge line, of difference.

I suspect she's being maintained on propophol, which is a fast acting sedative. They use it in the OR, and are able to turn it off and on in Neuro ICU, to bring her back up for some tests, and then back down to rest more. The less work the brain has to do right now, the better...medically induced coma is a last resort sort of thing, and they can't bring her up and out rapidly.

She is also being ventilated; probably hyperventilated, because that helps reduce the swelling. She won't be able to speak with that thing in her, so any response she's making is by squeezing hands, showing fingers, moving left/right foot, and so on.

She will likely have some right sided motor deficiets, and the center of speech (Broca's center) is located on the left side, near where the bullet's trajectory went. She may not be able to speak well, or at all, if the bullet damaged the structure, but...the bullet may have missed that area.

Just some thoughts for this evening...

Best-
Herding Cats