GUILTY AZ - Six killed, 13 injured in shooting at Gabrielle Giffords event, 8 Jan 2011 - #1

[hockeymom]

Me too Kaylynn!!! That grin is totally uber creepy. He looks as if he is proud of his nutzo killing spree. I am so mad at him that I wish I clould spit on him! moo

wm

I'm sure the voices were saying something very amusing.(seriously)

 

[LadyL]

would a hospital shave eyebrows for any medical reason?

would a jail shave eyebrows for um, any sanitary or safety reason?

 

[Herding Cats]

Not much of a pot smoker, are you, HC?

Or is this some special effect of THC on schizophrenics? 'Cause paranoia among pot smokers is so common as to be a stereotype.

(Sorry if the levity seems disrespectful. HC's excellent and serious post on paranoid schizophrenia can be found in full above at post #462.)

Nope, Nova, I got high once, and laughed for hours. Nothing more than that, and it was many years ago, at that. LOL.

I do know that a lot of folks with MI tend to do what they can to 'self-medicate', and more than a few of them use pot (I suppose the ease of access is part of it). I've treated a few who say pot helped them more than the meds we provided, too. And a friend of my best friend who has bi-polar with psychosis uses pot on a regular basis, and is not paranoid.

I don't know if THC has a different effect on someone who has significant MI; I don't know of any studies that have been done to go look at it (hm...Master's thesis?) I do know that they percieve the world completely differently than non-MI people, and that the chemistry in their brains is different, and that meds we give can have totally different effects than expected with those who have significant MI {but that might be attributable to med conflicts, too, and it's not an often occurance}. So it's not that far-fetched to think perhaps THC does help dull the voices, or damp down some of the perseveration on topics...and I've heard it does.

I don't know. It's an interesting question, though...

(And thanks for thinking the original post was "excellent." I appreciate that!)

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[ziggy]

Great post HerdingCats #462.

I too believe he is schizo - I've had two encounters with schizophrenics 1: a paranoid that believes he invented Kix cereal and if you even questioned it would get violent. He also was majorly into conspiracy theories and they really didn't even have to make sense because they did to him. 2. The high school football hero quarterback who smoked a lot of pot and did other drugs - his schizophrenia was not diagnosed until he was well into his late twenties even though we all saw how weird he was his first year out of high school; everyone chalked it up to "too many drugs man".

I too wonder about the parents here. It's possible they did what other parents have done and figured he just was "high" a lot and they didn't know what to do about it; thought it was a phase or something; kind of lived in denial because the reality was too overwhelming; never got around to it...

I think he's at that age where the onset of symptoms begins in males and his fixation on grammar, mind control, lucid dreaming, the gold standard...year after year with the same circular reasoning and things that make no sense to us but surely did to him - support that impaired thinking that comes with a mental disease.

Sadly, he'll be put on medication so that he will be competent to stand trial. Once on meds I'll bet he will not feel very good about what he's done. Maybe he won't care; but I think his mental illness got the best of him and he may have a completely different brain chemistry and outlook once the meds start. That's pretty sad. I wish he could have received mental health assistance earlier and if he'd been diagnosed, he probably would not have been able to purchase a gun. Seems there was plenty of warning.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Friends, Critics Dispute Arizona Sheriff's Remarks on 'Political Rhetoric' in Wake of Rampage


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/10/dupnik-friends-critics-remarks-arizona-shooting/

This did bother me also. JMO

 

[Nancy2441]

Giffords Doctors See No Abnormal Brain Swelling

Dr. Lemole said that the path of the bullet–which went from back left to front left of her head–may have been high enough that it missed key brain centers controlling speech, vision and cognitive function.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...74030477835712.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

 

[hockeymom]

When I worked on a Mental Health ICU, I couldn't believe the things that people actually believed to be true. There was a man who thought that a giant seal came out of the ocean to get him and his only protection was chocolate. He covered himself in it and cut open tennis balls,stuffed them with chocolate,and placed them in the walls of the aprtment he lived in. When the landlord noticed a real bad bug infestation they discovered the tennis balls. Probably one of the scariest people I encountered and one of the sweetest and saddest ,was a social worker,who happended to be paranoid schizophrenic. When her med stopped working she would her voices told her to kill men. She would stalk the local city park,but at the time I met her she had some self control.(if you can call it that) Instead of men,she would capture cats and bring them home and kill them. She would come in to the hospital with scratches everywhere. When she was "well",she was so remorseful. I'm certain at some point she killed herself,because she felt such guilt.
Most people are more like the first example I cited,not really harmful to anyone but themselves, but the rare exception should be taken more seriously. I don't know that we should go back to a system like the old "Snake Pit" days,but there should be some alternative to letting these people out on the street.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Tucson Heroes

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011...7232503.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea

I just saw the man named Badger on the news and he has a big spot on the back of his head where the bullet grazed him.

 

[Snick1946]

Me too Kaylynn!!! That grin is totally uber creepy. He looks as if he is proud of his nutzo killing spree. I am so mad at him that I wish I clould spit on him! moo

wm

I saw that picture on TV for the first time tonight. The first thing that popped out of my mouth was that he looks like a villan in a bad Batman movie.

 

[panthera]

would a hospital shave eyebrows for any medical reason?

would a jail shave eyebrows for um, any sanitary or safety reason?

I suspect he did it before the shooting. MOO

 

[panthera]

Giffords Doctors See No Abnormal Brain Swelling

Dr. Lemole said that the path of the bullet–which went from back left to front left of her head–may have been high enough that it missed key brain centers controlling speech, vision and cognitive function.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...74030477835712.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

It's truly a miracle. rayer: MOO

 

[Fairy1]

I, too, believe this man will be found to be schizophrenic. I'm very interested to learn how his family was attempting to deal with it, if at all. It seems there were those at his community college that suspected mental illness. Surely his own family had to have known something was terribly "off" with him?

I doubt his motive will ever make any sense to anyone. Not even to himself, when they put him on meds.

It's unfortunate all the politicians are using this tragedy to further their own ridiculous agendas.

 

[panthera]

Neighbors: Jared Loughner and family quiet, kept to themselves

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/neighbors-jared-loughner-and-f.html


(My apologies if this has already been posted; I found it quite insightful about the dynamics of the suspect and his family)

 

[OneLove]

Nope, Nova, I got high once, and laughed for hours. Nothing more than that, and it was many years ago, at that. LOL.

I do know that a lot of folks with MI tend to do what they can to 'self-medicate', and more than a few of them use pot (I suppose the ease of access is part of it). I've treated a few who say pot helped them more than the meds we provided, too. And a friend of my best friend who has bi-polar with psychosis uses pot on a regular basis, and is not paranoid.I don't know if THC has a different effect on someone who has significant MI; I don't know of any studies that have been done to go look at it (hm...Master's thesis?) I do know that they percieve the world completely differently than non-MI people, and that the chemistry in their brains is different, and that meds we give can have totally different effects than expected with those who have significant MI {but that might be attributable to med conflicts, too, and it's not an often occurance}. So it's not that far-fetched to think perhaps THC does help dull the voices, or damp down some of the perseveration on topics...and I've heard it does.

I don't know. It's an interesting question, though...

(And thanks for thinking the original post was "excellent." I appreciate that!)

Best-
Herding Cats

Uhmmmm.....until a mentally ill drug user quits their habit, it remains unknown as to whether they would still exhibit symptoms of mental illness while NOT under the influence of said drugs.

I have known way too many people my age left over from the 60's and 70's who still justify their addictions, general apathy, and very low development of potential. They also deny that their drug and alcohol use contribute to 'their problems in life'. Same old dynamic that you see in any addict, its just that many of the aging pot addicts I have known have a bit more formal classroom education and have held 'responsible' jobs long term due to living where there are veeery low expectations.

I have never regretted that I quit smoking pot MANY YEARS ago. Hahahah. THERE, I have outted myself, a child of the sixties and the generation of LOVE NOT WAR.

Personally, I am of the many who came to believe pot AND lsd was perpetuated on the anti-war revolutionary young people of the day precisely to GENERATE APATHY, and it sure did work.

 

[Herding Cats]

Uhmmmm.....until a mentally ill drug user quits their habit, it remains unknown as to whether they would still exhibit symptoms of mental illness while NOT under the influence of said drugs.

I have known way too many people my age left over from the 60's and 70's who still justify their addictions, general apathy, and very low development of potential. They also deny that their drug and alcohol use contribute to 'their problems in life'. Same old dynamic that you see in any addict, its just that many of the aging pot addicts I have known have a bit more formal classroom education and have held 'responsible' jobs long term due to living where there are veeery low expectations.

Well, see, I don't know that I can agree. I know that the bi-polar was evidencing symptoms long before she started using. I know that a lot of the patients I've spoken with tell me they use to prevent the symptoms/self medicate.

Now, I'm not talking about LSD, or doctored pot. I'm talking straight marijuana. While I'll admit some people get kinda strange while on pot, it's not known for being psychedelic, I don't think. In other words, I don't know that it can cause breaks with reality (e.g. psychosis); as far as I know, and I've known some non MI folks who used constantly, it doesn't cause mental illness.

Personally, I am of the many who came to believe pot AND lsd was perpetuated on the anti-war revolutionary young people of the day precisely to GENERATE APATHY, and it sure did work.

I don't know that I can agree with this, too. Seems kinda paranoid to me...(I am joking, see? :crazy

I think Leary did his thing, and LSD got used. I think there was a huge rebellion on many levels during the 60s, and into the early 70s. I think pot's been around a whole lot longer, and used prolifically, for millenia, andI think MI has been around for millenia, too.

I'm just noting his use of pot, not advocating it or saying it's horrible. I'm noting that self medication occurs a lot more than we're willing to admit, and that most addiction comes from a percieved need to "stop feeling" something or other - medicating oneself sometimes allows that; if the medicine of choice is pot or alcohol or heroin or Doritos, it's still used for the same reason: to stop feeling something.

It is my opinion - opinion, mind you - that in this situation, he probably used pot to "deal with" his disintegrating world. Schizophrenia is a horrible, horrible illness, devastating and scary and unbelievably difficult to deal with, even with medication and help from the MI professionals. If he was as cut off from the world as it seems (what with the info coming out about the parents, the lifestyle, and so on), he had no help, no place to go, no person to grab onto and say "help".

Instead, his mental illness ran unchecked, and developed. His writings, obsessions, compulsions, fixations, and bizarre postings over the internet...his disconnect was complete and total.

Does this excuse him? I don't know if he knew right from wrong. I just don't know. And since the M'Naughton Rule is what is the standard in a courtroom, and it's a very high hurdle indeed, I don't know that even if he's diagnosed that any NGBRI plea will survive a challenge.

I am horribly sad that this has happened. I grieve the lives lost, and the lives changed forever.

This whole thing just sucks.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[arielilane]

After viewing the shooter's You tube video:

I wonder if he was listening to this informerical: type in your browser www.endofamerica15.com I didn't watch the whole thing; because it's too long and boring....

 

[arielilane]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40981688/ns/news-picture_stories/displaymode/1247/?beginSlide=1

Slide

 

[arielilane]

Christina

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3giU6cOYIVI&feature=channel[/ame]

 

[Dr. Know?]

Mental Health Warnings Preceded Rampage, as Arizona Gunman Likely Went Untreated

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/1...ceded-arizona-rampage-evidence-gunman-sought/

 

[OneLove]

Well, see, I don't know that I can agree. I know that the bi-polar was evidencing symptoms long before she started using. I know that a lot of the patients I've spoken with tell me they use to prevent the symptoms/self medicate.

Now, I'm not talking about LSD, or doctored pot. I'm talking straight marijuana. While I'll admit some people get kinda strange while on pot, it's not known for being psychedelic, I don't think. In other words, I don't know that it can cause breaks with reality (e.g. psychosis); as far as I know, and I've known some non MI folks who used constantly, it doesn't cause mental illness.


I don't know that I can agree with this, too. Seems kinda paranoid to me...(I am joking, see? :crazy

I think Leary did his thing, and LSD got used. I think there was a huge rebellion on many levels during the 60s, and into the early 70s. I think pot's been around a whole lot longer, and used prolifically, for millenia, andI think MI has been around for millenia, too.

I'm just noting his use of pot, not advocating it or saying it's horrible. I'm noting that self medication occurs a lot more than we're willing to admit, and that most addiction comes from a percieved need to "stop feeling" something or other - medicating oneself sometimes allows that; if the medicine of choice is pot or alcohol or heroin or Doritos, it's still used for the same reason: to stop feeling something.

It is my opinion - opinion, mind you - that in this situation, he probably used pot to "deal with" his disintegrating world. Schizophrenia is a horrible, horrible illness, devastating and scary and unbelievably difficult to deal with, even with medication and help from the MI professionals. If he was as cut off from the world as it seems (what with the info coming out about the parents, the lifestyle, and so on), he had no help, no place to go, no person to grab onto and say "help".

Instead, his mental illness ran unchecked, and developed. His writings, obsessions, compulsions, fixations, and bizarre postings over the internet...his disconnect was complete and total.

Does this excuse him? I don't know if he knew right from wrong. I just don't know. And since the M'Naughton Rule is what is the standard in a courtroom, and it's a very high hurdle indeed, I don't know that even if he's diagnosed that any NGBRI plea will survive a challenge.

I am horribly sad that this has happened. I grieve the lives lost, and the lives changed forever.

This whole thing just sucks.

Best-
Herding Cats

Thank you; very very well written indeed!

I do agree with you, people tend to use any substance of choice to "numb" themselves and I agree with you that he probably used pot to deal with his disintegrating world, one in which no one person was able to adequately help him.

I can't disregard, however, that he may have been in a much better position to exercise his own self-help coping mechanisms AND to realize that he NEEDED help, AND to be able to GET that help had he NOT been stoned, especially on a regular daily basis. So I guess it swings both ways.

On the psychosis itself, I have a close family member who is Bipolar Type 1 with both psychotic and schizophrenic episodes. Among the things I have seen set her off are music, irritating background noise, wind, video games, and alcohol. I do not believe being stoned would be a good coping strategy, although I realize you are not suggesting it AS a good strategy, only empathizing. Personally, I have seen too many routine smokers who are a sad mess and are just too messed up to even realize it. This is probably the sad case here also.

Thanks for the well articulated thoughts.