GUILTY AZ - Six killed, 13 injured in shooting at Gabrielle Giffords event, 8 Jan 2011 - #2

[PAXIMUS]

Why? The entire country knows what he did, there has been extensive news everywhere.
and since he is MI, he cannot be let out no matter what. He has to live in a place where is no danger to anyone.

They had to move the trial to San Diego because ALL of the judges in Arizona have recused themselves and taken themselves off the list of possible candidates to preside over the case BECAUSE their friend and colleague Judge Roll was a victim, so they cannot preside over case, conflict of interest.

It isnt being moved NOT because of tainted jury pool, it is being moved because there are no judges in Arizona who will preside over the trial.

 

[ziggy]

Hey Pax, <modsnip>

Political Pavillion. Deal? (where I will make you scream for mercy like a little girl ) Ha! I do love a good debate with you Pax.

 

[LinasK]

They had to move the trial to San Diego because ALL of the judges in Arizona have recused themselves and taken themselves off the list of possible candidates to preside over the case BECAUSE their friend and colleague Judge Roll was a victim, so they cannot preside over case, conflict of interest.

It isnt being moved NOT because of tainted jury pool, it is being moved because there are no judges in Arizona who will preside over the trial.

Not to worry, even though I spent 10 years down there-San Diego is NOT known for being a Liberal bastion. There are lots of military people down there- navy and marines. It's a law and order kind of place, some highly Republican areas...

 

[PAXIMUS]

Not to worry, even though I spent 10 years down there-San Diego is NOT known for being a Liberal bastion. There are lots of military people down there- navy and marines. It's a law and order kind of place, some highly Republican areas...

My time in SD on vacation is always a good time, time well spent and a relaxing time. I have found SD to be a wonderful city and one of the cleanest places I have ever had the pleasure of visiting.

Most of my time spent there is spent at pacific beach on a surf board, that is what I like to do best and what I try and do most, when time permits!

I am sure he will get as fair a trial there as anywhere.

 

[Nova]

I appreciate you trying to make sense of this but I am a good friend of Eric Fuller, we have worked together as campaign managers for various democratic candidates for the last decade and Eric is a battle tested Navy Vet who is probably one of the toughest and strong headed people I know, thats why he was able to drive himself to the hospital, I can assure you 100% that Eric Fuller did not shoot himself, he is very upset about Gabby being shot and had a slight mental breakdown from that but he has since level his head and today everything is fine and he is back to normal and working hard again to make this country a better place....

Do you have a prediction as to what will happen to the legal charges against Mr. Fuller.

I understand that those who arrested him were following the law, but it will be a shame if lenience isn't shown under these circumstances, IMHO.

 

[Nova]

My time in SD on vacation is always a good time, time well spent and a relaxing time. I have found SD to be a wonderful city and one of the cleanest places I have ever had the pleasure of visiting.

Most of my time spent there is spent at pacific beach on a surf board, that is what I like to do best and what I try and do most, when time permits!

I am sure he will get as fair a trial there as anywhere.

I LOVE San Diego, but LinasK is right: it is not a liberal bastion like SF or Oakland. SD generally tilts Republican (which is not a reason they can't stage a fair trial there).

 

[PAXIMUS]

Do you have a prediction as to what will happen to the legal charges against Mr. Fuller.

I understand that those who arrested him were following the law, but it will be a shame if lenience isn't shown under these circumstances, IMHO.

The guy he pissed off is the founder of the local tea party and he has said he intends to press charges against Mr Fuller, I suspect with all the tension between the parties that he wont relent in that regard and will probably go ahead with pressing charges but I am also sure that a deal will be struck of some sort and Fuller will end up with commnity service which is all he does with his time anyway as it is. He wont be going to jail over any of this when it is all said and done, tensions were running high and Fuller simply had a minor mental break and did some things that he certainly regrets ( I cant speak for him but thats what I see) and he will do what is needed to make this right when it comes the time to do so.

 

[arielilane]

Jailed Arizona Gunman Jared Loughner Reportedly Showing 'No Remorse'

Arizona's most notorious new prisoner showing no remorse at all for his heinous actions, sources told the New York Post.
Jared Lee Loughner's eyes look "dead -- he's pure evil," one prison worker told a visitor.
Another person who was inside the federal prison in Phoenix, where Loughner is being held, said the madman with the ghoulish grin is living up to his image as a cold-blooded murderer.
"He's shown no remorse. No crying or anything," said BG, 49, who visited a relative in the prison and asked a guard about the killer. "He's segregated, but when he's out, he's, like, with six guards."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/17/jailed-arizona-gunman-showing-remorse/

 

[Cypros]

They had to move the trial to San Diego because ALL of the judges in Arizona have recused themselves and taken themselves off the list of possible candidates to preside over the case BECAUSE their friend and colleague Judge Roll was a victim, so they cannot preside over case, conflict of interest.

It isnt being moved NOT because of tainted jury pool, it is being moved because there are no judges in Arizona who will preside over the trial.

Ok, but why California? That state is already is financial crisis. The last thing it needs is an expensive, media-circus, politically heated trial. If Loughner is to be tried by his peers, wouldn't it make better sense to hold the trial in Alaska?

 

[nosysw]

So the next time someone has a major life catalyst and is seen practicing shooting a weapon, what exactly would we do? They are not breaking any laws by doing that. And if they don't want mental help, they cannot be forced just for those above reasons.

I was referring to the 60 Minutes discussion of a study that was done that discovered these two things. As a mental health professional I do think it is helpful and the right thing for family and friends of someone to support and monitor them after any major life changing event that is upsetting to them, especially when it is someone who has clearly demonstrated significantly off balance behavior in the years leading up to the event.

I'm not suggesting he broke any laws by practicing shooting but how many people have now said they were afraid of him? That they left classes, sat by the door in classes, etc., all because they saw someone who might do something on the level of what he did. This, to me, means that there were definite signs and that society as a whole needs to look at how such events can be avoided in the future. We cannot force mental help, you are right, but in some cases evaluations can be pursued and even forced and, yes, these evaluations do sometimes lead to forced treatment if significant risks are identified (as maybe they would have been- we can only surmise).

I'm not saying anyone was necessarily negligent or at fault- I was shocked to see how many did see something like this coming. More often, it seems to me, friends, neighbors, family, etc. say they never saw anything like this coming. JMO.

 

[nosysw]

I have tried the insanity defense several times for clients I have represented and it is not easy to prove. To be considered legally insane the defendant has the burden of PROVING that he didnt understand that what he did was WRONG.

Clearly JL is insane by societal standards, you would have to be to do what he did, but that doesnt make him criminally insane when it comes to a defense in a court of law. He knew what he was doing was wrong BECAUSE the night before the shootings he posted on his myspace "good bye friends PLEASE DONT BE MAD AT ME." This indicates that he knew what he was about to do was WRONG and ILLEGAL, which means he cannot be considered insane in a legal sense.

However there is a newish criminal defense that can be used instead of NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF INSANITY, which is GUILTY BUT INSANE, meaning he is guilty of the crime as charged BUT INSANE, this would mean he is not 100% responsible for what he did, but he still understood that it was WRONG and ILLEGAL and such a verdict would put him in the hands of DOCTORS in a medical facility as opposed to prison or death row.


The difference is this, not guilty by reason of insanity would put him in a medical facility and he would have to be RELEASED as soon as the doctors found him to no longer be a danger to himself and others, in the case of GUILTY BUT INSANE, he would be sentenced to LIFE IN A MEDICAL FACILITY and even if he did improve and was no longer a threat to himself or others, the doctors would have no legal requirement to release him back in to society.

Pax, I so appreciate your posts. You seem to be a truly compassionate lawyer (so I will refrain from lawyer jokes, lol!). I agree that by current legal standards he would not be found "not guilty by reason of insanity" which is why we have so many MI in prison (and on the streets).

The new criminal defense that you identified, Guilty but Insane, which I think is great- is this designated as a new plea alternative? I'd never heard of it. Is that on a state or federal level? (I know I'm showing my ignorance of the legal field here.)

I can already hear death penalty advocates freaking out about the unbearable burden this will place on the prison system. I'm surprised this hasn't been given much more publicity.

 

[Steely Dan]

Ok, but why California? That state is already is financial crisis. The last thing it needs is an expensive, media-circus, politically heated trial. If Loughner is to be tried by his peers, wouldn't it make better sense to hold the trial in Alaska?

Even though the trial will take place in California I think Arizona will have to foot the bill. I'm not sure of that but I think that's how it works.

 

[Tuffy]

Even though the trial will take place in California I think Arizona will have to foot the bill. I'm not sure of that but I think that's how it works.

I believe you're right, Steely. Otherwise, we could save the taxpayers here a lot of money by holding our trials in Oklahoma!

Usually, the change of venue is to another city within the state though.

 

[i.b.nora]

Its a Federal case. It is not a State case. The State of Arizona has yet to bring its charges against Loughner.

 

[Tuffy]

Its a Federal case. It is not a State case. The State of Arizona has yet to bring its charges against Loughner.

Wow, you're right. I forgot that all the charges at this point are federal.

Do you know when the state of AZ might bring charges? Will they wait to see how the federal case plays out?

 

[Steely Dan]

Wow, you're right. I forgot that all the charges at this point are federal.

Do you know when the state of AZ might bring charges? Will they wait to see how the federal case plays out?

If he's found guilty of killing a federal judge and sentenced to death there wouldn't be much point in pursuing any other charges, JMO.

 

[raisincharlie]

Even though the trial will take place in California I think Arizona will have to foot the bill. I'm not sure of that but I think that's how it works.

The only charges applied are Federal charges at this point. This will be tried in Federal Court proceedings. The State of California will not be held financially responsible for Federal proceedings. The Feds will be financially accountable though.


ETA - should have read a bit further - thank you I.B. Nora

 

[Deborah1012]

http://www.thenewsroom.com/details/4498944
Showing Fuller's arrest and home search.

 

[Velouria]

I'm not saying anyone was necessarily negligent or at fault- I was shocked to see how many did see something like this coming. More often, it seems to me, friends, neighbors, family, etc. say they never saw anything like this coming. JMO.

Agree, nosy. I really find it difficult to believe his family claims not to have seen something coming, given his expulsion and subsequent notification from school officials and LE that he was in need of psychiatric evaluation.

 

[songline]

They had to move the trial to San Diego because ALL of the judges in Arizona have recused themselves and taken themselves off the list of possible candidates to preside over the case BECAUSE their friend and colleague Judge Roll was a victim, so they cannot preside over case, conflict of interest.

It isnt being moved NOT because of tainted jury pool, it is being moved because there are no judges in Arizona who will preside over the trial.

I can always count on you to set me straight. Of Corse that makes sense - why didnt I think of that? Because I am slow sometimes LOL
:blowkiss: