GUILTY AZ - Three die in sweat lodge during spiritual retreat, Yavapai County, 8 Oct 2009

[LyndyLoo]

Yeah she's a gynecologist (sp) from Alaska. It will be interesting to follow her testimony. All I can get is InSession coverage, so I didnt get the afternoon coverage.

I've done sweat lodges b4 and they didnt have medical facilities or supplies that I knew about, but they were REAL sweat lodges. This wasn't. Make no mistake. This guy was doing his own thing, with an entirely different goal and mo than a normal sweat lodge. In a normal sweat lodge, safety IS as important a goal as the process, and I believe that the Native American community has tried to point this out.

yeah, ck out thiis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Arthur_Ray#Native_American_perspective

IMO

excellent link~~ TY..however these happen to be issues I am very aware of ( Medical Professional)...I am amazed just how this guy claims no harm no foul attitudes..Yikes...

I am willing to bet there were no thermometers to check temps of people..and no Hydration ability (IV Infusions)..and to boot..Health Issues of individual participants was never even thought about//NOW that alone leads me to believe he is culpable ( He Ruled dont ya know)...

Mr. James Ray best feel lucky I am NOT on that jury..and even tho I havent heard ALL testimonies..I have heard enough to realize this guy was an accident waiting to happen :loser:

Manslaughter is more than a fair charge..and yepper..He is guilty as charged!!
Course JMOO

 

[LyndyLoo]

I just read about James Authur Ray...and now I realize he feels in no way responsible for these 3 deaths... I havent seen any background on these threads,,so I apologize IF this has been posted before..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Arthur_Ray

Snippets from link~ The biggy for me is HIS PHILOSOPHY~~ Hummm

PhilosophyRay is an advocate of the Law of Attraction; his teachings have been described as "including a mix of spirituality, motivational speaking, and quantum physics". In an interview, Ray answered about personal responsibility, "I fully know, for me, that there is no blame. Every single thing is your responsibility ... and nothing is your fault. Because every single thing that comes to you is gift ... a lesson."[10]

Just read the rest of his background..and you may get a sense of just how he came that conclusion...His Daddy never got rich, tho he worked his whole life to help people..and poor James couldnt go to Cub Scouts because his Daddy couldnt buy him a uniform :waitasec:

Somehow this man found enough rich peeps to buy into his beliefs..:maddening:..Why cant intellegent people do their homework and why do they blindly accept people like this?????????/

 

[costalpilot]

Oh yeah and did you catch the psychologist on IS who said poor little James says in his book how when he was a kid he was so poor his momma had to give him a buzz hair cut on the front porch while all the neighborhood kids laughed at him. And guess what his " pupils" had to do in the workshop ( to prove to themselves and Jim) that they were "all in".

You couln't make this up.

Imagine that!

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Here's CNN's latest article:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/09/arizona.sweat.lodge.trial/index.html?hpt=Sbin



"I will be right there with you," he said.

"You will have to get to a point where you surrender to death," Ray said. "When you are going into the lodge symbolically you are going back into the womb of mother earth."

"It is such a great metaphor ..." the author said. "My body dies but I never die."



"You will be in such an altered state," Ray said. "You may see visions. It's a great opportunity to explore your own consciousness."

 

[LyndyLoo]

We are back live at the trial~~~ the defense is discussing some sort of waiver form??

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=1

 

[LyndyLoo]

Man oh Man, the more I listen to this defense attny, the more I realize that Mr. James Arthur Ray was a "Cultist" and systematically brainwashed his followers..and in doing so he was able to manipulate them to do whatever he wished them to do...Yikes...I just read up on "Brainwashing Techniques" and these techniques are utilized in many venues, including salespersons..Dont necessarily means Prisoners of War...

James Ray was in it for 2 things..MONEY and Power...He didnt give a care about these people one bit :maddening:

Here's one link I read~~
http://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/human-nature/perception/brainwashing.htm
snippet~~

For instance, the compliance method aims to produce a change in a person's behavior and is not concerned with his attitudes or beliefs. It's the "Just do it" approach. Persuasion, on the other hand, aims for a change in attitude, or "Do it because it'll make you feel good/happy/healthy/successful." The education method (which is called the "propaganda method" when you don't believe in what's being taught) goes for the social-influence gold, trying to affect a change in the person's beliefs, along the lines of "Do it because you know it's the right thing to do." Brainwashing is a severe form of social influence that combine*s all of these approaches to cause changes in someone's way of thinking without that person's consent and often against his will.

 

[costalpilot]

We are back live at the trial~~~ the defense is discussing some sort of waiver form??

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=1

thanks for the link, but I only have my iPhone as I drown my mac and link doesn't work. So all I've got is IS, but they feel breathless live coverage of Lindsay Lohan is more interesting than a live trial they are covering,

Anyways, I'm interested, have you checked out the book:

Tragedy In Sedona

I ordered it. I'm pretty sure it's not a book James would appreciate.

I'm watching the Dennis ("I'm dying") cross now. Martial Arts guy. This atty is good. I'm guessing this team is thousands of $$$$ an hour, maybe 5 figures AN HOUR. I heard on IS that Ray has already gone into debt for his attys and I'm betting if there is a second trial THEY won't be on the team, like Phil spectors dream team didn't show up for his second trial.


Wow the atty seems surprised that people don't read waiver forms. Maybe because they don't mean anything. Dennis has already sued and settled with James in a civil suit.

Wonder what the state will say about the waiver.

 

[LyndyLoo]

thanks for the link, but I only have my iPhone as I drown my mac and link doesn't work. So all I've got is IS, but they feel breathless live coverage of Lindsay Lohan is more interesting than a live trial they are covering,

Anyways, I'm interested, have you checked out the book:

Tragedy In Sedona

I ordered it. I'm pretty sure it's not a book James would appreciate.

I'm watching the Dennis ("I'm dying") cross now. Martial Arts guy. This atty is good. I'm guessing this team is thousands of $$$$ an hour, maybe 5 figures AN HOUR. I heard on IS that Ray has already gone into debt for his attys and I'm betting if there is a second trial THEY won't be on the team, like Phil spectors dream team didn't show up for his second trial.


Wow the atty seems surprised that people don't read waiver forms. Maybe because they don't mean anything. Dennis has already sued and settled with James in a civil suit.

Wonder what the state will say about the waiver.

They just went to their lunch break.... and thanks for the tip on that book..I will keep an eye out for it...

People such as Mr. Ray are labeled as"Motivational Speakers"...however many actually are manipulative brainwashing sorts who have an ability to get people do things they wouldnt normally do...There has been many in the past, and there will no doubt be many in the future :sick:

BBL when court resumes :seeya:

 

[LyndyLoo]

We are NOWback Live in the trial..Def. Attny continues his cross exam~~ This witness is just putty in the hands of anyone who questions him..Sign of brainwashing???..Just wonderin??

Ohhhh..thinks we're back to re-direct now

 

[LyndyLoo]

Didnt catch the name of this new witness, but he is giving his account on just how he met Mr. Ray...Ewwwwe La La..Mr. Ray appears to reel his followers initially by promoting "Wealth Management, or How to Make Money or How to make the most with your money's..etc...Yikes....gets them to attend numerous seminars all over ( Dallas, Hawaii, other places) and starts slipping in these new venues...such as Spiritual Warriors Seminars which progressed to Samari, Yoga, Sweat Lodge, Vision Quests etc....

Amazing to hear just how this guy got these people to follow his teachings and suggestions...:banghead: These people were NOT uneducated...Course Mr. Ray wouldnt want anybody involved who didnt have $$$$$ to give him either..so THEY (his followers) had to have some successses in their lives!!

I will be interested just how this case ends up!!

 

[LyndyLoo]

FYI..Here's the link to James Ray's website~~

An important update on JRI postponed events

http://www.kewego.com/video/iLyROoafv50T.html

There is all sorts of videos here...This guy sure felt the need to communicate to his followers after his "Problems"..I wonder IF he ever returned funds to those who had paid UPFRONT for future seminars??...

Here's Jame's link for those interested in getting richer..money, emotional and spiritual wise??

under "Self Improvement" guise~~

http://www.kewego.com/search/?q=self+improvement

 

[costalpilot]

Thanks 4 links. I'll look at them when I get to a comp. Did you get that when the atty kept trying to get the guy to say he would have helped somebody who was dying and theguy wouldn't say he wuld have because he wasn't thinking straight butthe atty acted like he didn't understand that? He's a good atty though, must be nice to be able to hire guys like that. Im glad ICA doesn't have $$$$ like that.


Thankx for the updates.

 

[LyndyLoo]

Thanks 4 links. I'll look at them when I get to a comp. Did you get that when the atty kept trying to get the guy to say he would have helped somebody who was dying and theguy wouldn't say he wuld have because he wasn't thinking straight butthe atty acted like he didn't understand that? He's a good atty though, must be nice to be able to hire guys like that. Im glad ICA doesn't have $$$$ like that.


Thankx for the updates.

U R very welcome costalpilot....its too bad...... I seem to be talking to myself:floorlaugh:.but THIS case should be required reading for ANYONE who wishes to enrich their lives by folks like James Ray :banghead:

ICA..doesnt have money..but she sure has a family and lawyer who milked whatever they could by her "Brand"..Geesh..sorry for going OT :blushing:

 

[costalpilot]

WItness: if somebody was dying I would have waited till the round was over and THEN asked somebody for help,


Atty: so you would have stopped the ceremony and asked for help,


Witness: no.

What impressed me was that the atty slickly misrepresented what the witness said, asking for an acknowledgement that the attys version was correct and that the w. Actually caught it and said no. It was slick the way the atty did it and I think he's done it with prior success and was actually a little surprised the w, caught him, but IMO the state should have objected but it did happen fast.

 

[costalpilot]

U R very welcome costalpilot....its too bad...... I seem to be talking to myself:floorlaugh:.but THIS case should be required reading for ANYONE who wishes to enrich their lives by folks like James Ray :banghead:

ICA..doesnt have money..but she sure has a family and lawyer who milked whatever they could by her "Brand"..Geesh..sorry for going OT :blushing:

It's hard to believe more folks aren't Interested in this case. But I only got intetestded when I was watching the ica hearings and it came on but still it's good stuff. Did you see what the state countered about the releases in their redirect? I'm only online intermittenly now so I may not be able to respond quikly but thanks. I'm reading you.

 

[LyndyLoo]

I have to say I am not up to full speed..IS the Linda/Lynda they are referring to in this testimony one of the victims who died???

BTW..as a HC professional, ALL symptoms scream of Heat Prostrations , Heat Exhaustian, Heat Stroke..NOT Poisoning by fumes...Thats why I am so frustrated on just what these defense attny's have tried to insinuate prior to trial..NOPE....These people died due to HEAT!! and lack of Medical Attention!!! No more no Less..and LACK of medical attention is due to James and his Corporation...Yikes..I keep getting Jim Jones visions listening to this crapolla....:sick:

 

[costalpilot]

If the glove doesn't fit you must acquit.

Right poisionous rocks and deadly dirt. I even heard they found a "supposed" dr. Who wl say the death rattle that was described is indicAtive of poisioning. Yeah right. I'm supprised the great criminologist Henry lee hasn't worked his way onto THIS money train.

 

[LyndyLoo]

:banghead:

If the glove doesn't fit you must acquit.

Right poisionous rocks and deadly dirt. I even heard they found a "supposed" dr. Who wl say the death rattle that was described is indicAtive of poisioning. Yeah right. I'm supprised the great criminologist Henry lee hasn't worked his way onto THIS money train.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:..IF there was poisonous fumes, or toxic substances in the drinking water..There would have been many others who would have succumbed..Yikes.......I will always remember this case whenever I have a friend of someone who thinks peeps like this have their interests in mind:crazy:..Its such a crock I just dont get it :banghead:

I think Manslaughter is quite appropriate for James Ray..and wonder IF any of his "Dream Team" could be found culpable as well??..Course the "Dream Team" had been brainwashed as well :sick:

Clearifying..when I say Dream Team..I am NOT referring to his Legal representation, but his employees who followed Jame's directions!!

 

[costalpilot]

I'd be very surprised if any of the DT was indicted. They were even paying themselves. I think I heard that there are as mNy as 50 potential witnesses and I figure most of them were at the retreat.
The IS th's were all about the d. Making a good argument that the pupils(I'll call them) were free to leAve at any time and thAt is a point but they are acting like it's an overridding pt.
WhAt do you think?
It seems to me the management in any kind of situAtion has a larger responsibility that includes a minimum at least awarness of the dangers inherent in whatever activety they offer, regardless of the participants free will. Those releases they were making such a big deal about didn't prevent Dennis, at least, from suing and settling with J!

So somebody in the legal system must have decided that free will didn't trump responsi ility. I wonder if the awards are public record? No doubt doubt they are contributing to J'S debt problem.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

CNN's coverage:


http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/10/arizona.sweat.lodge.trial/index.html?hpt=T2


A participant in a 2009 Arizona sweat lodge ceremony that left three people dead testified Thursday that he asked a volunteer if he had died and was told, "No, you came back."

Dennis Mehravar, a real estate salesman from Canada, testified that self-help author and speaker James Ray, who led the event, told him he had been reborn.