AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[Chezhire]

Yiikes. Interview is a bit disconcerting, to say the least. He went on and on with the tall tales re: what he was doing after he left school, etc.

 

[chicagofa13]

I stayed out of this thread except for reading because my initial feeling was the kid is a psychopath/sociopath. I come from a rural background (not hunters but most friends/neighbors were). Now I feel like I can speak. Some people DO NOT belong in society. That is the case from the beginning of time.

 

[Julessleuther]

OK guys, I am going to play devils advocate here, please do not slam me. I am fairly local to this--in Phoenix area, and on local news they are stating that this interview was done the day after the killings(sorry, no link).

I work with children everyday, and I guess perhaps it is because I want to see the good in everyone, that I have a very hard time believing that he did this and if so, without a reason. I did hear the video, and while we are hearing his words and language, I do feel that that one part may be taken out of context of the whole interview. You can obviously tell that they have already had conversations with him, they discuss where he lives and neighbors etc, like LE has already established this with him. He may have cried all night up to this point, we just do not know. I think even some of the most hardened criminals have some remorse, and it is often that remorse that "slips them up". LE may have told him to calm down and stop crying, and then talked to him--we just do not know, we do not have enough information to formulate a definitive evaluation of this childs psyche. I am shocked that there was no child advocate, psychologist, or CPS worker present when this interview is taking place---where are the childs rights being taken into consideration? As people who respect the judicial system, as I am sure most of us here do, shouldn't this be important for two reasons: 1. to protect the rights of the child, and 2. to protect the intergrity of the investigation. I am not stating that LE did anything improper, but we all know that not every cop is an honest, upstanding person. We all know of cops who have been involved in crimes and then cover it up. We have all seen situations where cops want to close a case and look for the 1st possible suspect to "make their case".

I guess I am shocked that some are labeling him a serial killer in the making, because LE just has not released enough information on him, nor is LE stating that he is a psychopath or potential serial killer. I think sometimes we become so hardened to what we see here at WS, that we lose some of our objectivity. I guess I have such a hard time believing this, and am going to wait for all the evidence to unfold. Perhaps I am wrong, and if so, I will be the first to say so, but I will wait to see how all the evidence unfolds...

I will say this---(not to be disrespectful to anyone who lives in that area), this is a very small community, and a rural part of AZ. There is a large Indian community in this area, with many lower income families. Their way of life is not necessarily the same as some of ours. I had a step sister-in-law who was a Dr. in Pinetop for the reservation, and it was shocking some of the stories of life in that area. I also am not stating that this boys father and friend had any kind of drug problem, but there are alot of drug and alcohol problems in this area, especially on the reservations. Perhaps the boys father or roommate was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or was witness to something? I am curious about this supposed truck that the boy says he saw...

AZ for the most part, particularly rural areas, has very much retained that good ol' cowboy mentality--fight our own battles, be cautious of outsiders, we can handle things our own way. ALthough I personally am against younger children using guns and hunting, I definitely can see it being a part of the life in this area, so am not as shocked by use of the gun as I am of the consequences of that gun.

 

[southcitymom]

I am so thankful that my 10 yr old son is a terrible liar! He has a conscience....it's written all over his face. When he even tried to lie.....
His eyes get as big as silver dollars....lie starts off with a labored hard swallow...followed by some stammering........it's such a beautiful thing!

He saw a dog hit by a car this past summer. He was devastated, cried and had nightmares for weeks! He still talks about it.

My sons aren't good liars either....though that doesn't mean they are without their manipulative charms!:crazy:

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I agree,I am going to wait for all the evidence to unfold here also to decide what I think of all this.What led up to this?

suzanne

 

[southcitymom]

OK guys, I am going to play devils advocate here, please do not slam me. I am fairly local to this--in Phoenix area, and on local news they are stating that this interview was done the day after the killings(sorry, no link).

I work with children everyday, and I guess perhaps it is because I want to see the good in everyone, that I have a very hard time believing that he did this and if so, without a reason. I did hear the video, and while we are hearing his words and language, I do feel that that one part may be taken out of context of the whole interview. You can obviously tell that they have already had conversations with him, they discuss where he lives and neighbors etc, like LE has already established this with him. He may have cried all night up to this point, we just do not know. I think even some of the most hardened criminals have some remorse, and it is often that remorse that "slips them up". LE may have told him to calm down and stop crying, and then talked to him--we just do not know, we do not have enough information to formulate a definitive evaluation of this childs psyche. I am shocked that there was no child advocate, psychologist, or CPS worker present when this interview is taking place---where are the childs rights being taken into consideration? As people who respect the judicial system, as I am sure most of us here do, shouldn't this be important for two reasons: 1. to protect the rights of the child, and 2. to protect the intergrity of the investigation. I am not stating that LE did anything improper, but we all know that not every cop is an honest, upstanding person. We all know of cops who have been involved in crimes and then cover it up. We have all seen situations where cops want to close a case and look for the 1st possible suspect to "make their case".

I guess I am shocked that some are labeling him a serial killer in the making, because LE just has not released enough information on him, nor is LE stating that he is a psychopath or potential serial killer. I think sometimes we become so hardened to what we see here at WS, that we lose some of our objectivity. I guess I have such a hard time believing this, and am going to wait for all the evidence to unfold. Perhaps I am wrong, and if so, I will be the first to say so, but I will wait to see how all the evidence unfolds...

I will say this---(not to be disrespectful to anyone who lives in that area), this is a very small community, and a rural part of AZ. There is a large Indian community in this area, with many lower income families. Their way of life is not necessarily the same as some of ours. I had a step sister-in-law who was a Dr. in Pinetop for the reservation, and it was shocking some of the stories of life in that area. I also am not stating that this boys father and friend had any kind of drug problem, but there are alot of drug and alcohol problems in this area, especially on the reservations. Perhaps the boys father or roommate was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or was witness to something? I am curious about this supposed truck that the boy says he saw...

AZ for the most part, particularly rural areas, has very much retained that good ol' cowboy mentality--fight our own battles, be cautious of outsiders, we can handle things our own way. ALthough I personally am against younger children using guns and hunting, I definitely can see it being a part of the life in this area, so am not as shocked by use of the gun as I am of the consequences of that gun.

Thanks for weighing in, Julessleuther! Like you, I don't feel like we have nearly enough information to call this little guy a "serial killer in the making." I did not get chills listening to his interview or get concerned that - as some others have opined - he doesn't seem to have shown any remorse. Again - we just haven't seen enough of his process to know those things with any level of certainty.

It's just that the information we do have is so strange and confusing and contradictory that I think it's fair for the sake of discussion to consider that he might have sociopathic tendencies and to look at any facts which seem to point in that direction.

I don't know what the "truck" is all about, but from what I've read that was part of his initial story - eventually he changed his story and admitted to the killings. I am assuming LE have or are in the process of obtaining evidence to back up his confession (ie - gun shot residue, things he said to others, things he could have only known if he had some involvement, etc....). I truly believe if LE thought this was the work of someone else, they would not be trying to pin this on the child.

The whole community is in shock, it seems, and, IMHO, that shock has seemed very genuine. Gag order or not, I think if there was some odd "dirt" on the father or the renter or the boy, some of that would have leaked out by now - that's just human nature. But we haven't heard anything like that - everyone seems as flummoxed as we all are. For me, this fact supports a theory that may view the boy as a budding sociopath simply because sociopaths are often charismatic, intelligent and charming and if you present that on the outside but are capable of this type of crime, something is deeply amiss.

Like you, I'm not a "fan" of guns and children, but I do not find the gun aspect shocking.

 

[colette]

He might not be a serial killer in the making but he most likely is the killer of 2 adults; who planned, called, and made sure they were dead by pumping 4 bullets in each.

I would not feel comfortable living with or near this person when he is freed at age 18.

 

[Trino]

He might not be a serial killer in the making but he most likely is the killer of 2 adults; who planned, called, and made sure they were dead by pumping 4 bullets in each. I would not feel comfortable living with or near this person when he is freed at age 18.

It's hard to say this, but I, too, would not feel comfortable living near this boy at 18. Knowing that he later confessed, then listening to the video - well, it's interesting that <redacted> could, without remorse, tell such a story. He could become more accomplished in juv detention.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He might not be a serial killer in the making but he most likely is the killer of 2 adults; who planned, called, and made sure they were dead by pumping 4 bullets in each.

I would not feel comfortable living with or near this person when he is freed at age 18.

What I found fascinating is how he tried to cover all bases but one of the most chilling parts was when he was asked if he had touched his dad and he said he may have and then they ask him how and he showed them that he nudged him with his shoe.

I just cant get that part out of my mind, among other things, but if he really DID NOT murder his father would he just come up to his dead body laying there and just nudge him with the toe of his shoe???????????? And then just remain in the home for 30 minutes after then??? IMO, he nudged him to see if he was dead and if he moved then most likely that is when he fired the additional shots. He thought more shots would be needed when he killed Romans so he shot the same amount of times.

What he didn't know at the time, but LE did, was Tim Romans had been on the phone outside talking to his wife and he not only told her he had to go to see what the boy wanted but she also heard him calling her husband to come inside that something was wrong with his dad. Mrs. Romans had to have already contacted them before they did this part of the interview. Remember when she spoke to the media she said they need to ask the boy about that and that he knows what happened there that day. The boy couldn't hear what was being said on the phone nor that his own voice could be heard by Mrs. Romans.

That part had to get their hackles up. They knew his story about finding Romans there first was a lie.

imoo

 

[southcitymom]

He might not be a serial killer in the making but he most likely is the killer of 2 adults; who planned, called, and made sure they were dead by pumping 4 bullets in each.

I would not feel comfortable living with or near this person when he is freed at age 18.

I definitely cannot say that, but I might be in the minority. Unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I am very comfortable with young people who committed terrible crimes as children being given a second chance in society. Case in point - James Bulger case.

There's no piece of me that won't hold out genuine hope for any struggling 8 year old in the world.

 

[southcitymom]

What I found fascinating is how he tried to cover all bases but one of the most chilling parts was when he was asked if he had touched his dad and he said he may have and then they ask him how and he showed them that he nudged him with his shoe.

I just cant get that part out of my mind, among other things, but if he really DID NOT murder his father would he just come up to his dead body laying there and just nudge him with the toe of his shoe???????????? And then just remain in the home for 30 minutes after then??? IMO, he nudged him to see if he was dead and if he moved then most likely that is when he fired the additional shots. He thought more shots would be needed when he killed Romans so he shot the same amount of times.

What he didn't know at the time, but LE did, was Tim Romans had been on the phone outside talking to his wife and he not only told her he had to go to see what the boy wanted but she also heard him calling her husband to come inside that something was wrong with his dad. Mrs. Romans had to have already contacted them before they did this part of the interview. Remember when she spoke to the media she said they need to ask the boy about that and that he knows what happened there that day. The boy couldn't hear what was being said on the phone nor that his own voice could be heard by Mrs. Romans.

That part had to get their hackles up. They knew his story about finding Romans there first was a lie.

imoo

Yes - I had forgotten that piece of the puzzle - that's why they kept asking him during the interview if he was sure he was never in the house.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OK guys, I am going to play devils advocate here, please do not slam me. I am fairly local to this--in Phoenix area, and on local news they are stating that this interview was done the day after the killings(sorry, no link).

I work with children everyday, and I guess perhaps it is because I want to see the good in everyone, that I have a very hard time believing that he did this and if so, without a reason. I did hear the video, and while we are hearing his words and language, I do feel that that one part may be taken out of context of the whole interview. You can obviously tell that they have already had conversations with him, they discuss where he lives and neighbors etc, like LE has already established this with him. He may have cried all night up to this point, we just do not know. I think even some of the most hardened criminals have some remorse, and it is often that remorse that "slips them up". LE may have told him to calm down and stop crying, and then talked to him--we just do not know, we do not have enough information to formulate a definitive evaluation of this child's psyche. I am shocked that there was no child advocate, psychologist, or CPS worker present when this interview is taking place---where are the child's rights being taken into consideration? As people who respect the judicial system, as I am sure most of us here do, shouldn't this be important for two reasons: 1. to protect the rights of the child, and 2. to protect the integrity of the investigation. I am not stating that LE did anything improper, but we all know that not every cop is an honest, upstanding person. We all know of cops who have been involved in crimes and then cover it up. We have all seen situations where cops want to close a case and look for the 1st possible suspect to "make their case".

I guess I am shocked that some are labeling him a serial killer in the making, because LE just has not released enough information on him, nor is LE stating that he is a psychopath or potential serial killer. I think sometimes we become so hardened to what we see here at WS, that we lose some of our objectivity. I guess I have such a hard time believing this, and am going to wait for all the evidence to unfold. Perhaps I am wrong, and if so, I will be the first to say so, but I will wait to see how all the evidence unfolds...

I will say this---(not to be disrespectful to anyone who lives in that area), this is a very small community, and a rural part of AZ. There is a large Indian community in this area, with many lower income families. Their way of life is not necessarily the same as some of ours. I had a step sister-in-law who was a Dr. in Pinetop for the reservation, and it was shocking some of the stories of life in that area. I also am not stating that this boys father and friend had any kind of drug problem, but there are alot of drug and alcohol problems in this area, especially on the reservations. Perhaps the boys father or roommate was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or was witness to something? I am curious about this supposed truck that the boy says he saw...

AZ for the most part, particularly rural areas, has very much retained that good ol' cowboy mentality--fight our own battles, be cautious of outsiders, we can handle things our own way. Although I personally am against younger children using guns and hunting, I definitely can see it being a part of the life in this area, so am not as shocked by use of the gun as I am of the consequences of that gun.

Welcome!

I am not sure what you are saying in the paragraph I have bolded. They said that the father built the home he was living in and it was in a good neighborhood. He was not of a lower income and I believe his wife also works. He worked at the power plant on the full time construction crew they maintain there constantly. I have seen on other sites that have said Vincent was some type of supervisor. Romero is Hispanic and he has a large family living there. He is not Indian.

Imo, the child learning to hunt at a young age has nothing to do with this case. Millions of children fall under that category and they don't even harm, much less, murder anyone.

How were they in the wrong place at the wrong time? They had just arrived home from work and were at their own residence.

imoo

 

[colette]

In the part of the tape where the boy says he used his foot to see if his dad was alive, he actually sounded happy to me.

They just had a playing of the boy's tape on CNN "Cambell Brown", they only provided half the evidence and said nothing about the boy calling Mr Romans while he was on the phone to his wife. In the "NO BULL" story/show they acted like he was innocent.

 

[southcitymom]

In the part of the tape where the boy says he used his foot to see if his dad was alive, he actually sounded happy to me.

They just had a playing of the boy's tape on CNN "Cambell Brown", they only provided half the evidence and said nothing about the boy calling Mr Romans while he was on the phone to his wife. In the "NO BULL" story/show they acted like he was innocent.

Interesting. I thought we knew for certain about Mr. Romans being on the phone with his wife - I cannot recall the links where I read that, but I thought it was "fact" and if it is "fact" it is definitely a pertinent one that would not lead to the conclusion that the child is innocent.

 

[southcitymom]

Welcome!

I am not sure what you are saying in the paragraph I have bolded. They said that the father built the home he was living in and it was in a good neighborhood. He was not of a lower income and I believe his wife also works. He worked at the power plant on the full time construction crew they maintain there constantly. I have seen on other sites that have said Vincent was some type of supervisor. Romero is Hispanic and he has a large family living there. He is not Indian.

Imo, the child learning to hunt at a young age has nothing to do with this case. Millions of children fall under that category and they don't even harm, much less, murder anyone.

How were they in the wrong place at the wrong time? They had just arrived home from work and were at their own residence.

imoo

I took her post to mean wrong place/wrong time like witnessing a drug deal or something (maybe stemming from some of the drug/alcohol problems known to plague the Indians) out on the street. Or - they had been witness to something at another place and time and its consequences followed them home.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Interesting. I thought we knew for certain about Mr. Romans being on the phone with his wife - I cannot recall the links where I read that, but I thought it was "fact" and if it is "fact" it is definitely a pertinent one that would not lead to the conclusion that the child is innocent.

I have really found out in the last few years the media pundits do not research the cases they discuss. They don't know half what other people already are aware of.

I think the local print media in any case is much better and on top of things than the national media that gives their quick blips.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I took her post to mean wrong place/wrong time like witnessing a drug deal or something (maybe stemming from some of the drug/alcohol problems known to plague the Indians) out on the street. Or - they had been witness to something at another place and time and its consequences followed them home.

Maybe so. Thanks.

I got confused by the "low income", "reservation" and "Indian". lol

imoo

 

[southcitymom]

I have really found out in the last few years the media pundits do not research the cases they discuss. They don't know half what other people already are aware of.

I think the local print media in any case is much better and on top of things than the national media that gives their quick blips.

imoo

That makes a lot of sense. I don't watch any of the national news shows (though I do listen to NPR) and most of the news I get comes from WS! LOL!

 

[colette]

I have really found out in the last few years the media pundits do not research the cases they discuss. They don't know half what other people already are aware of.

I think the local print media in any case is much better and on top of things than the national media that gives their quick blips.

imoo

I agree, not only that Campbell Brown originally said the crime occurred in COLORADO!

 

[southcitymom]

I agree, not only that Campbell Brown originally said the crime occurred in COLORADO!

Bozos! If you're going to jump all over a story for your own ratings benefits, at least try to get the barest basics correct......