AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[b4self]

I will wait for more imformaton before forming opion, this is just stunning ,he's just a baby,how can he understand the concept of muder.

 

[OneLostGrl]

He may have an antisocial disorder (or whatever), but I think it was interesting that the boy talked so much. He didn't just answer questions; he elaborated on his story.

He did, you are right! ..and he lied and then changed his lies when he was caught lying. IMO, he's been lying for a long time.

 

[Trino]

This boy is not a baby, be4self.

The definition of a baby IMO is an infant. Go to a retail store. You won't find clothes to fit an 8 yr old in the baby department.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I will wait for more imformaton before forming opion, this is just stunning ,he's just a baby,how can he understand the concept of muder.

I understand how you feel. It's very scary to think of this being possible.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
He is a young boy.I agree,He did talk alot.I think he said in the interview or some where I read he would get in trouble for saying lies.Maybe he lied about everything he said in the interview too.The likelyhood he shot them are probably pretty high.It was his gun in his house.I am just trying to get all the facts first to see what I think before I make a decision.All this is just real sad.I guess I am just trying to figure out why this happened.

Quote
The next hearing, set for next Wednesday, is to focus on requests by defense lawyers for DNA, blood samples, ballistics and other forensics evidence from the crime scene.

Is all the forensics back yet?Is any of this information public to see.

suzanne

 

[liljim]

there is a hearing in this case coming up in 60-90 minutes they just said on CNN. remarkably they are still leaving out MANY important details in all the national coverage in this case, things that people MUST know to even try to come to an informed opinion on this case.

but that shouldnt be surprising to anyone anymore.

 

[Lyn1001]

At this point, no one, except the child, knows for sure what happened in that home, whether it be before, during, or after the incident. There are a lot of assumtions flying around, and I have my own assumtions. What I wanted to respond to is in regards to the possibility of him having a precursor to Anti-Social Personality Disorder, or even just "issues".

I have delt with male children who have shown signs of problems but nobody noticed because they thought "boys will be boys". From the outside looking in at the behaviors of the children, it's easy to see that they are not just being boys, but the people who have watched the child grow up do not see anything wrong. Often times, it's around the age of 11-13 that people begin to notice that the child's behavior is becoming more severe, or that the behavior is not normal. A lot of boy behavior gets excused by the "boys will be boys" mentality. In no way am I assuming this is the case in this situation, just throwing it out as a possibility as to why no one seemed to see any signs. Heck, even with grown adults who commit horrendous crimes, you always hear neighbor's and friends say they never would have expected it, they didn't see any signs. Hindsight is 20/20, and it's easy to see signs after the fact. But just like many people here do not want to believe that an 8 year old child could do this, I'm sure the people who knew him and cared about him didn't want to believe that he acting abnormal.

 

[liljim]

jami floyd commenting on the case on CNN obviously is not aware of the phone call between the wife and tim. that's just how the media works these days. and they are supposed to be informing us?

 

[Elphaba]

For an 8 year old, he is sure is very articulate. Just from listening to how well he speaks and his sentence structuring, had I not known his age I would have thought he was older than 8. That said: he may be 8, but to me I think his maturity level age is higher.

 

[gitana1]

ya gotta start somewhere. I think he was simply an overachiever.

Let's let him walk, have outpatient therapy and see if he'll have a repetitive and persistent pattern at 13......I'm placing my bet on him fulfilling the requirements!

Never said this kid should walk. I just cast doubt on labeling him a sociopath so soon. Could be possible but he just does not have the background for it, unless there is much more we do not know about. I don't think most sociopaths start with a double murder at age 8. The kid likely committed a double homicide. Whatever the cause or the reason, he needs intensive therapy and monitoring in a secured setting for several years.

 

[gitana1]

Here is a snip I took from a very interesting nine page article I read recently in the New Yorker about the study of "psychopaths", (not to be confused with "psychos", orpsychotics), also known as sociopaths or those with antisocial personality disorder (conduct disorder in kids). This docor conducted a study of prisoners brains to detect psychopathy. Long study. Very interesting article with examples of some really eerie, frightening people. This snip talks about psychopathy in kids, when it starts, how it can be detected and if it can be treated. The article seems to suggest there is hope for treatment if you catch them young enough:

"Although psychologists don’t call minors “psychopaths”—they are “youths with psychopathic traits”—there is considerable evidence that the condition manifests itself at ages earlier than eighteen; in a much cited 2005 paper, “Evidence for Substantial Genetic Risk for Psychopathy in Seven-Year-Olds,” published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, Essi Viding suggests that the condition can be detected in early childhood. Fledgling psychopaths are particularly interesting to researchers, because their brains are thought to be more malleable than those of adults. In a landmark 2006 study of a specialized talk-therapy treatment program, conducted at a juvenile detention center in Wisconsin, involving a hundred and forty-one young offenders who scored high on the youth version of the checklist, Michael Caldwell, a psychologist at the treatment center and a lecturer at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, reported that the youths that were treated were much more likely to stay out of trouble, once they were paroled, than the ones in the control group. “In other words,” Kiehl told me, “psychopathy is treatable after all, if you can catch it young enough.” Of course, as he pointed out in an e-mail, even with very violent young offenders we have to accept that “the only way to know if the treatment worked or not is to return the youths to the community once they have finished their sentence. . . . Perhaps you put them in a specialized community/monitoring program once they are released again.”
Here's the link:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/10/081110fa_fact_seabrook?currentPage=8
Of course, I suppose none of this will matter to those who think: "It does not matter if he's a kid. He's evil and should never see the light of day again." I understand that feeling. Such a kid is really freaky and scary. But, I think it's good that some are not ready to give up on children yet, if there is a chance to fix them. In any event, as many here have said, I don't know what happened in this case or what the cause of the murders was. I think a child suffering horrible abuse would feel nothing if they killed their abuser so if that's the case, the kid's reaction during interview may not indicate that he is a psychopath. I just don't know. I'll wait and see and withhold judgment until I know a bit more. No matter what, this is a terrible and bizarre tragedy.

 

[noZme]

His voice sounds even younger than a friend's 8 year old, but I heard a remarkably articulate child speaking with very little emotion (I am aware that there were times he was apparently sobbing) & he was adapting his story to fit every new detail revealed by the officers....... I heard Casey Anthony speaking in a little boy's voice..... This is my 1st thought after hearing the tape, & I reserve the right to change. It seems key to me that he gets in "trouble for lying", which that 30 minutes of tape serves as an example...... What a disturbing case!

I do not think the officers were intimidating but they probably went too far & should have stopped the interview until a guardian ad litem had been appointed. However, there may be enough evidence to convict him without the "confession". So what is a just punishment if he is responsible? I hope this can be settled in judges chambers. It is tragic on all levels.

 

[liljim]

i can't come up with a scenario where tim's wife would lie to try and involve the 8 year old in the crimes, there may be a very complicated one but it seems much much more likely that she is telling the truth and did hear the boy calling to tim and tim then said to her "i have to go see whats up, the boy is calling me to help", if anyone heard the shots and can give an approximate time they can then check that against her phone records (his too) and see if it adds up.

so we have tim on the property and in perfect health, and the boy there too calling to him to come in the house, if no gunshot residue is found on tim, and tim's fingerprints arent on the gun, and there is no evidence of anyone else at the scene or any foreign fingerprints on the gun, then i think there is a still a good case.

but i dont think that confession will make it into any court. and i certainly dont think he should be found criminally responsible as an adult for the murders. but i can see why people might want that to happen because, as i said earlier, there is no good way to handle these types of offenders.

unfortunately this child is going to get a defense attorney and likely never say another word about what happened until a trial or hearing is complete. when it is in the best interest of society, the families of the victims, and the child himself, for him to be encouraged to talk openly about what happened.

 

[liljim]

and yes nozme, when just the first two clips were available and i didnt know about the phone call i felt like he was being gently coerced and led into confessing and that he quite possibly was innocent. i thought he sounded like a baby or just a little kid telling stories (not lies, just going along with what he thought they wanted). maybe still in shock, or denial etc...

but after you watch the whole interview (the 29 minute segment) and hear of the phone call, it becomes apparent that he almost certainly is weaving a web of lies and trying to cover his tracks in that whole interview.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

QUOTE
I think a child suffering horrible abuse would feel nothing if they killed their abuser so if that's the case, the kid's reaction during interview may not indicate that he is a psychopath.

I agree with this.This is a very sad story.I will wait and see what else is made public.

suzanne

 

[southcitymom]

......I think it's good that some are not ready to give up on children yet, if there is a chance to fix them...

I couldn't agree more, gitana.

Everytime I listen to that interview, I just want to hug <redacted>. I don't even care if he's not capable of loving anyone but himself - seems to me that those are the ones that need love most of all.

I too am withholding judgment until more evidence comes in. This case is heartbreaking and baffling.

 

[southcitymom]

His voice sounds even younger than a friend's 8 year old, but I heard a remarkably articulate child speaking with very little emotion (I am aware that there were times he was apparently sobbing) & he was adapting his story to fit every new detail revealed by the officers....... I heard Casey Anthony speaking in a little boy's voice..... This is my 1st thought after hearing the tape, & I reserve the right to change. It seems key to me that he gets in "trouble for lying", which that 30 minutes of tape serves as an example...... What a disturbing case!

I do not think the officers were intimidating but they probably went too far & should have stopped the interview until a guardian ad litem had been appointed. However, there may be enough evidence to convict him without the "confession". So what is a just punishment if he is responsible? I hope this can be settled in judges chambers. It is tragic on all levels.

That's a good question NoZme. I hope he gets loads of counseling. It breaks my heart to think of a child that age in jail, but I also understand that for the welfare of the greater community, he would need to be removed from society for a while.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
QUOTE
I too am withholding judgment until more evidence comes in. This case is heartbreaking and baffling.

I am too.It just makes me sad for this little boy.

suzanne

 

[oceanblueeyes]

His voice sounds even younger than a friend's 8 year old, but I heard a remarkably articulate child speaking with very little emotion (I am aware that there were times he was apparently sobbing) & he was adapting his story to fit every new detail revealed by the officers....... I heard Casey Anthony speaking in a little boy's voice..... This is my 1st thought after hearing the tape, & I reserve the right to change. It seems key to me that he gets in "trouble for lying", which that 30 minutes of tape serves as an example...... What a disturbing case!

I do not think the officers were intimidating but they probably went too far & should have stopped the interview until a guardian ad litem had been appointed. However, there may be enough evidence to convict him without the "confession". So what is a just punishment if he is responsible? I hope this can be settled in judges chambers. It is tragic on all levels.

That is so strange, noZme. One of my friends emailed me this morning and they were talking about this case. I told her when I saw his full interview I saw shades of Casey Anthony. Has there been any leaks about the hearing scheduled this afternoon?

imoo

 

[Trino]

If this boy could make up stories as he went along and lie like he did, what's to say he won't lie about being abused? He sounds as if he has the capablility to make up more than enough to get himeself out of this mess.