AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[Linda7NJ]

They are not ever labeled so anymore.. Psychopath is no longer a diagnosis. It is now considered Anti-social personality disorder.
This kid has got some major issues, that's for sure!

You can call it the new improved DSM name.....I prefer PSYCHOPATH. :blowkiss:

 

[Julessleuther]

There was more video released today, and I will admit that it does not look good--he is not crying as he talks about shooting them, he is so calm, it is bizarre....


http://www.azfamily.com/video/3tvextra-index.html?nvid=304999

 

[Linda7NJ]

Now that is scary! Is he living with another family now or in a safe place?

After I dropped him off at the crisis center...he went into a foster home, with other CHILDREN in the home for about 6 months. At court he was sentenced to a locked RTC for sex offenders for 18 months. After paying for all evaluations ( which I had to get court ordered because DYFS didn't think it was necessary) before court and prior to his rehabilitated release 18 months later I terminated my rights. He went back into fostercare... He did something ...have no idea exactly what.....but landed back in sex offender treatment and was released at 18 this October. Have no idea where he is......I have no legal right to know.

He has threatened repeatedly to kill me & my son.....we ruined his life.... We're kinda worried here and have beefed up security. Was Hoping to move ...but economically it seems impossible now.

OH OH.....example of his ability to manipulate....he managed to somehow talk a therapist (from the Sex Offender Residential ) and at another time a social worker to DRIVE HIM past my house as well as my parents home. We were granted a no contact order and the therapist lost her job.

 

[Linda7NJ]

He may have an antisocial disorder (or whatever), but I think it was interesting that the boy talked so much. He didn't just answer questions; he elaborated on his story.

yeah...like a young Casey Anthony

 

[Linda7NJ]

Could be juvie has been a threat people have used against him in the past to attempt to keep him in line. I do not think that this child was "good" before this murder.. If this kid killed these men like LE claims, I'd put money on there being a history of unacceptable behaviors with him.

The 11 yr old I spoke of.....NEVER showed one sign in my home. He was great, his teachers and friends ...my family all believed he was a normal, extremely well mannered, healthy, very intelligent... above average, trust worthy kid.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Where does it say this boy was questioned for hours?

The video stated complete interview.

This boy was question for hours, until the police heard what they wanted to hear. This was a interview where they kept asking the same questions until the boy finally gave the police the answers he thought they wanted to hear.

If you all heard on CNN earlier today, you would see that this boy is only trying to please the officers. I do not beleive that this child did these crimes.

He was questioned for hours, with no legal guardian, or attorny present. You all remember another case where they tried to get a boy to admit to killing his sister, the boyw as questioned for hours with no parents, or legal councel there. He finally admitted that he killed his sister along with 2 of his other friends. When he got an attorny, they found out that the case was flawed to begin with because the police, would not take him home or leave him alone until he finally told them what he wanted. The boy spent years in prison, only to take it to trial, and have the case thrown olut, because of the misconduct by the police. I beleive that this is the case here as well.

This kid did not do this, and he was basically thrown under the bus.. The police have done gross misconduct, and it is absolutly appaling!!!!

 

[liljim]

ladybass, have you read about the phonecall between tim and his wife as he arrived at the house? in case you havent, the wife said she heard the boy in the background calling "tim come help me, come in the house" and tim was apparently fine at that point and told his wife "i have to go the boy is saying there is something wrong"

let me find the link, i had the same impression you have after only hearing the interview.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

There was more video released today, and I will admit that it does not look good--he is not crying as he talks about shooting them, he is so calm, it is bizarre....


http://www.azfamily.com/video/3tvextra-index.html?nvid=304999[/quote]

He is not crying because he did NOT do this, and is simply telling the police officers what they want to hear!!!!

Thats why he is so calm! He didn't do this so he doesn't have any emotions as he is telling the story. He simply wants to please the officers and tell them what they want to hear.

Why are we all so quick to call this child a murderer, have the police investigated ALL oher possibilities, or did they decide to take the easy way out and try to pin this on the child?? Have they ruled out anything else??? Why are they so quick to pin this on the child??

 

[liljim]

in case you missed it among the posts;

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20190155&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

"Hogle said several members of the Romans family arrived at the funeral home while he was there. He pulled a couple family members aside in an attempt to calm them down, and it was during that time that Romans' wife said her husband called her right after he got home from work. While discussing work and other topics with her husband, she told the officer she could hear the 8-year-old boy in the background yelling at her husband, "Tim, I need you to come in here, something's wrong with dad. Tim, come in the house, something's wrong." Hogel said Ms. Romans insisted the officers talk to the youngster - "He knows something; he was there when something bad happened to my husband. Make sure that they talk to him about this." Ms. Romans said the last thing her husband said to her was that the Romero youngster said something was wrong and he needed to go look into it."

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

in case you missed it among the posts;

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20190155&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

"Hogle said several members of the Romans family arrived at the funeral home while he was there. He pulled a couple family members aside in an attempt to calm them down, and it was during that time that Romans' wife said her husband called her right after he got home from work. While discussing work and other topics with her husband, she told the officer she could hear the 8-year-old boy in the background yelling at her husband, "Tim, I need you to come in here, something's wrong with dad. Tim, come in the house, something's wrong." Hogel said Ms. Romans insisted the officers talk to the youngster - "He knows something; he was there when something bad happened to my husband. Make sure that they talk to him about this." Ms. Romans said the last thing her husband said to her was that the Romero youngster said something was wrong and he needed to go look into it."

That does raise red flags, and no I must have missed this in all the posts. But how do we know that this woman is telling the truth?

Maybe she just wants to hold someone resopnsible for the crime, and it was easy to create this story, to have someone held responsible for the crime? Maybe she didn't think the case would be solved, and it gave her comfort creating this story, cause she knew an 8 year old would not be able to defend himself when it came to questioning??

That probably didn't come out right, but I hope you got my point.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Bloom points to other cases in which false confessions were coerced from juveniles. Notable among them, she said, was the case of Michael Crowe, a teen who falsely confessed to killing his sister near San Diego, California. A transient later was convicted in the slaying.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/19/boy.confession.tactics/index.html

 

[liljim]

yes i do get your point, and hypothesized the same thing earlier, and while we cant say for certain, i think it is far more likely that the woman is telling the truth than that she is trying to frame an 8 year old for the crimes. especially when you consider they have the boy with gunshot residue on him and his fingerprints on the gun.

neither of those facts alone is surprising, the boy may have come home and went out on his own to shoot a few birds/prairie dogs before dad got home. but i trust that the police were smart enough to determine if the childs fingerprints on the gun were in places that would show he was the last to fire it.

i felt like this kid was clearly fed a story by the police in that interview also at first, and was not a tall convinced of his guilt because my mind of course wanted to give him every benefit of the doubt. but once i read about the phone call i rewatched the video at least 10 times, half of them looking for evidence of coercion and suggestion, half of them believing the wife and tim's phone call took place and was accurate.

i found that i clearly feel that the wife's story of the phone call is much more likely to be true, and that the interview was an 8 year olds attempt to change his story to match the facts the police are3 telling him they "know" and to implicate himself as little as possible.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

yes i do get your point, and hypothesized the same thing earlier, and while we cant say for certain, i think it is far more likely that the woman is telling the truth than that she is trying to frame an 8 year old for the crimes. especially when you consider they have the boy with gunshot residue on him and his fingerprints on the gun.

neither of those facts alone is surprising, the boy may have come home and went out on his own to shoot a few birds/prairie dogs before dad got home. but i trust that the police were smart enough to determine if the childs fingerprints on the gun were in places that would show he was the last to fire it.

i felt like this kid was clearly fed a story by the police in that interview also at first, and was not a tall convinced of his guilt because my mind of course wanted to give him every benefit of the doubt. but once i read about the phone call i rewatched the video at least 10 times, half of them looking for evidence of coercion and suggestion, half of them believing the wife and tim's phone call took place and was accurate.

i found that i clearly feel that the wife's story of the phone call is much more likely to be true, and that the interview was an 8 year olds attempt to change his story to match the facts the police are3 telling him they "know" and to implicate himself as little as possible.

I did not know the child had gunshot residue on his hands. I just hope that this is not another Michael Crowe in the making. THe police really screwed up the interview, and if they would have read him his rights, and provided him an attorny/legal guardian, I think I may be a little more comfortable. I just don't like how the police have carried this whole thing out.

 

[liljim]

i completely agree about that being a terrible interview, and im not even sure why it was made public so fast. possibly because people could not believe the 8 year old had done this and the police wanted them to understand better and allay their fears of a loose killer. of course they need to weigh that against conducting a proper investigation.

i cant believe that when the boy starts admitting that he may have fired shots for any reason that they dont stop talking to him and get him a representative of some sort. that seems like investigation 101 to me.

oh and i have not heard that the boy had residue on his hands for sure, but they did say he had a significant amount "on him", could be clothes, should be hands too unless he was crafty enough to know to wash his hands.

i dont claim to "know" any of this. it is still speculation, and just as i see the facts represented that we know so far

 

[Linda7NJ]

There was more video released today, and I will admit that it does not look good--he is not crying as he talks about shooting them, he is so calm, it is bizarre....


http://www.azfamily.com/video/3tvextra-index.html?nvid=304999

He is not crying because he did NOT do this, and is simply telling the police officers what they want to hear!!!!

That's why he is so calm! He didn't do this so he doesn't have any emotions as he is telling the story. He simply wants to please the officers and tell them what they want to hear.

Why are we all so quick to call this child a murderer, have the police investigated ALL other possibilities, or did they decide to take the easy way out and try to pin this on the child?? Have they ruled out anything else??? Why are they so quick to pin this on the child??

WOW! I was wondering how long it would take. I'm not even going to debate the issue with you, I've dealt with many just like you in real life and have learned better than to even try.

I just wish I could still view the world through rose colored glasses.

 

[liljim]

be nice. ladybass is reasonable.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

yes i do get your point, and hypothesized the same thing earlier, and while we cant say for certain, i think it is far more likely that the woman is telling the truth than that she is trying to frame an 8 year old for the crimes. especially when you consider they have the boy with gunshot residue on him and his fingerprints on the gun.

neither of those facts alone is surprising, the boy may have come home and went out on his own to shoot a few birds/prairie dogs before dad got home. but i trust that the police were smart enough to determine if the childs fingerprints on the gun were in places that would show he was the last to fire it.

i felt like this kid was clearly fed a story by the police in that interview also at first, and was not a tall convinced of his guilt because my mind of course wanted to give him every benefit of the doubt. but once i read about the phone call i re watched the video at least 10 times, half of them looking for evidence of coercion and suggestion, half of them believing the wife and tim's phone call took place and was accurate.

i found that i clearly feel that the wife's story of the phone call is much more likely to be true, and that the interview was an 8 year olds attempt to change his story to match the facts the police are3 telling him they "know" and to implicate himself as little as possible.

I believe Ms. Romans wholeheartedly and she was so concerned about it that she told the police about it that very night they were murdered. They will have Tim's cell phone and will know when he talked with her and for how long.

I noticed today in the interview they told the boy that they had talked to witnesses and I think someone in that area saw this boy go home and go inside before his dad got home from work. Vincent may have walked in first and Tim, called his wife and didn't go in the house yet. She said he always called her after he came home from work.

imo

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

WOW! I was wondering how long it would take. I'm not even going to debate the issue with you, I've dealt with many just like you in real life and have learned better than to even try.

I just wish I could still view the world through rose colored glasses.

Don't get me wrong. I know kids are capable of doing horrible things. But the way the interview was handled, kinda makes me have my doubts. He very well could be guilty on this. Hoever we may now never really know, because his confession is more then likely going to be thrown out on technicalities now.

 

[Linda7NJ]

be nice. lady bass is reasonable.

Honestly, I didn't mean that in a nasty way.

 

[MeoW333]

Just because he got in trouble a lot would not be an indicator for the father not to allow him to go hunting with him. Most kids aren't perfect and can get in trouble a lot.......just growing pains.

It seems there were no outward indicators at all about this boy. He had no discipline problems in school and seemed to be well liked in his community.

The dad had no reason to not trust his son to respect the safety instructions he laid down for him to follow concerning gun safety.

imoo

Due to the fact that he got in trouble a lot would be a number one reason to not allow him to go hunting. I don't care if he's from a hunting family or not; any child that has problems behaving (whether it be lying; poor schoolwork) should have their hunting priveledge taken away which means the guns all locked up.
I can't wait until his step mother breaks the silence. She was the one who thought the boy should've got a BB gun to begin with. I'd love to know her reasoning why she was against him getting a .22 rifle.
Maybe the school wouldn't and didn't notice sociopathic signs in him; yet his immediate family should have.
No one knows their own children like their parents. Whether his family was in denial of the problems or not home enough to notice; i don't know.

The safety instructions his dad taught him sure didn't work in this case. The boy's claiming "he shot them to end their suffering" sounds like how his father would teach him to kill animals quickly so they didn't suffer. The boy was applying it in the police interview; obviously not caring the difference between humans or animals that was taught to him.

For those of you that think he would have killed them regardless of whether or not with a gun; that's b.s.
I'd like to see how an 8 year old child would kill 2 grown men with a knife. Even if they were sleeping; doors and floorboards make a sound.
I am pro-guns; yet i believe that gun owners hold a responsibility and that is to make sure they are locked up and out of the hands of children.
The boy never should have had access to any guns. If his father was dead set on the boy having a gun then he should have kept it locked up (along with all their other guns) at all times allowing the boy to only use it during supervision.

It's obvious the boy was in charge of different guns more times than not. He said in the interview he'd carry the gun bags upstairs for his father; since his father was too lazy or tired and his stepmother would complain.
(i don't see any reason for him to lie about that). He could have made up any lie in regards to touching any of those guns; such as helping his father clean them all..