AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[oceanblueeyes]

That does raise red flags, and no I must have missed this in all the posts. But how do we know that this woman is telling the truth?

Maybe she just wants to hold someone responsible for the crime, and it was easy to create this story, to have someone held responsible for the crime? Maybe she didn't think the case would be solved, and it gave her comfort creating this story, cause she knew an 8 year old would not be able to defend himself when it came to questioning??

That probably didn't come out right, but I hope you got my point.

She never accused him of anything, Ladybass. She just told the police about it the Wednesday night they were killed about overhearing this boy calling for her husband to come into the home that something bad had happened to his dad. He husband told her he had to go see what the boy wanted and hung up. She just wanted to make sure the police asked him about that and I certainly don't blame her.

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

QUOTE
I think a child suffering horrible abuse would feel nothing if they killed their abuser so if that's the case, the kid's reaction during interview may not indicate that he is a psychopath.

I agree with this.This is a very sad story.I will wait and see what else is made public.

suzanne

That would make sense; we don't know if there was emotional abuse going on in the home.
IMO i don't think it was all peaches and cream there.
This father may have been a good father in the terms that he took his son places, bonded through hunting, playing ball and church; yet we don't know what really went on behind their doors. Abusers will be two faced. To the outside world they look like loving parents; once at home they can be very cold and mean people. Maybe the father was very focused on his boy being "macho" i.e. getting him a gun at age 8 (family tradition) and didn't approve of the boy showing physical emotion; so the boy has been used to hiding his emotions..
Children are more likely to develop conduct disorders (childhood psychopathy) when they have a disorganized or dysfunctional home. If the boy has frontal lobe damage that would be key as well into the combination.

http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/UVAHealth/adult_mentalhealth/condis.cfm

I just can't understand why no one saw any signs. Perhaps the boy was that good a chameleon with mimicking how he thought people wanted him to act; enforced with some kind of strictness by his father, non-education of the school to see the signs..

 

[MeoW333]

How loud, exactly does a .22 rifle sound when fired inside a house? You'd have to think the sound would echo a bit off the walls. I'm surprised Mr. Roman's didn't hear it outside the door if the boy shot his father walking down the stairs.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Due to the fact that he got in trouble a lot would be a number one reason to not allow him to go hunting. I don't care if he's from a hunting family or not; any child that has problems behaving (whether it be lying; poor schoolwork) should have their hunting priveledge taken away which means the guns all locked up.
I can't wait until his step mother breaks the silence. She was the one who thought the boy should've got a BB gun to begin with. I'd love to know her reasoning why she was against him getting a .22 rifle.
Maybe the school wouldn't and didn't notice sociopathic signs in him; yet his immediate family should have.
No one knows their own children like their parents. Whether his family was in denial of the problems or not home enough to notice; i don't know.

The safety instructions his dad taught him sure didn't work in this case. The boy's claiming "he shot them to end their suffering" sounds like how his father would teach him to kill animals quickly so they didn't suffer. The boy was applying it in the police interview; obviously not caring the difference between humans or animals that was taught to him.

For those of you that think he would have killed them regardless of whether or not with a gun; that's b.s.
I'd like to see how an 8 year old child would kill 2 grown men with a knife. Even if they were sleeping; doors and floorboards make a sound.
I am pro-guns; yet i believe that gun owners hold a responsibility and that is to make sure they are locked up and out of the hands of children.
The boy never should have had access to any guns. If his father was dead set on the boy having a gun then he should have kept it locked up (along with all their other guns) at all times allowing the boy to only use it during supervision.

It's obvious the boy was in charge of different guns more times than not. He said in the interview he'd carry the gun bags upstairs for his father; since his father was too lazy or tired and his stepmother would complain.
(i don't see any reason for him to lie about that). He could have made up any lie in regards to touching any of those guns; such as helping his father clean them all..

I thought he said he already had a BB gun.

The guns were most likely kept in individual cases. While there isn't a lazy bone in my husband's body all of his family has helped him bring the weapons in to be put up again. I dont see where he was in charge of weapons. Just toting them upstairs to be put in the master bedroom again isn't being in charge. He even said that he had gone behind his father's back and had shot the air rifle. Evidently the father had told him clearly to stay clear of all the guns, even the air rifle or pellet gun when he wasn't there.

Why would he lie about touching the guns?

imo

 

[MeoW333]

Don't get me wrong. I know kids are capable of doing horrible things. But the way the interview was handled, kinda makes me have my doubts. He very well could be guilty on this. Hoever we may now never really know, because his confession is more then likely going to be thrown out on technicalities now.

I agree that the interview was handled very sloppy. They have to wear "kid gloves" when interviewing a child or it will get ripped apart by a defense attorney. The police botched the case already without having an attorney present. Not to mention the national news media the interview clips has made.
Either way they look at this case; with fingerprinting, ballistics and the like the police still have a case against the boy without having to have had interview him without a lawyer. I think it was just sloppy police work there; they're not used to having murderers of any age in that town.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi

I just saw Nancy Grace.She is suppose to say something on her show about this tonight in a few minutes.I hope she covers this story a little bit.Not just say something about it tonight.I do respect very much what Nancy Grace will say on this.

suzanne

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How loud, exactly does a .22 rifle sound when fired inside a house? You'd have to think the sound would echo a bit off the walls. I'm surprised Mr. Roman's didn't hear it outside the door if the boy shot his father walking down the stairs.

It wouldn't be loud at all if it happened upstairs and the door was closed to the home. A 22 rifle makes sort of a cracking noise.

A shotgun makes a much louder boom and when Mary Winkler killed her husband no one heard it, not even the close neighbors.

The walls, furniture and carpet would absorb a lot of the noise.

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

I thought he said he already had a BB gun.

The guns were most likely kept in individual cases. While there isn't a lazy bone in my husband's body all of his family has helped him bring the weapons in to be put up again. I dont see where he was in charge of weapons. Just toting them upstairs to be put in the master bedroom again isn't being in charge. He even said that he had gone behind his father's back and had shot the air rifle. Evidently the father had told him clearly to stay clear of all the guns, even the air rifle or pellet gun when he wasn't there.

Why would he lie about touching the guns?

imo

Maybe he had a BB gun as well. We know for sure that the step mother wanted him to get a BB gun instead of the .22 since it was reported in the articles in the beginning of the case. Perhaps the BB gun was his father's.

Since you were raised in a hunting family, then i'm sure you know right well that some rifles are extremely heavy; especially for an 8 year old child to lug upstairs.
If his father wanted him to stay away from the guns; he should have kept them all locked up securely so that the boy couldn't get to them.

The boy should have had more supervision, IMO. Sounds like he had a lot of time on his hands getting home from school up until his father/ step mother got home. He certainly had enough time to plan out the murders. That's abnormal for a child. I also find it very hard that his father or step mother saw no warning signs, including lying. Maybe he didn't have much supervision at all.. that would be a reason not to notice your son is turning into a sociopath.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Don't get me wrong. I know kids are capable of doing horrible things. But the way the interview was handled, kinda makes me have my doubts. He very well could be guilty on this. Hover we may now never really know, because his confession is more then likely going to be thrown out on technicalities now.

If this case goes to trial I don't even think the confession will be needed.

I think they have witnesses.
I think they have loads of forensic evidence.
They secured the scene immediately and other agencies are working this case besides the local police. State and the FBI are investigating and forensics will be tested.

imoo

 

[gitana1]

Over the objection of prosectuors, the kid is going home with his mom for Thanksgiving:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454984,00.html

 

[MeoW333]

It wouldn't be loud at all if it happened upstairs and the door was closed to the home. A 22 rifle makes sort of a cracking noise.

A shotgun makes a much louder boom and when Mary Winkler killed her husband no one heard it, not even the close neighbors.

The walls, furniture and carpet would absorb a lot of the noise.

imoo

What is the sound comparable to? A belt cracking against the wall? (i'm not sure, i need to have something to compare it to)
Also, did it say in any of the articles they had carpet? I may have missed..
His father was shot in the middle of the stairs; which most likely came out somewhere near the front door. I'm still trying to figure out if Mr. Romans was talking outside with the door ajar or closed..

 

[lululove1996]

ladybass, have you read about the phonecall between tim and his wife as he arrived at the house? in case you havent, the wife said she heard the boy in the background calling "tim come help me, come in the house" and tim was apparently fine at that point and told his wife "i have to go the boy is saying there is something wrong"

let me find the link, i had the same impression you have after only hearing the interview.

Maybe that was the dad calling for his friend outside while he was writhing in pain which may have distorted his voice...and he didnt quite hear cause he was on the phone with his wife....and she was talking. Just a thought.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Maybe he had a BB gun as well. We know for sure that the step mother wanted him to get a BB gun instead of the .22 since it was reported in the articles in the beginning of the case. Perhaps the BB gun was his father's.

Since you were raised in a hunting family, then i'm sure you know right well that some rifles are extremely heavy; especially for an 8 year old child to lug upstairs.
If his father wanted him to stay away from the guns; he should have kept them all locked up securely so that the boy couldn't get to them.

The boy should have had more supervision, IMO. Sounds like he had a lot of time on his hands getting home from school up until his father/ step mother got home. He certainly had enough time to plan out the murders. That's abnormal for a child. I also find it very hard that his father or step mother saw no warning signs, including lying. Maybe he didn't have much supervision at all.. that would be a reason not to notice your son is turning into a sociopath.

He said he knew his mom would be later than she normally was...I think he mentioned 4 hours IIRC.

Many families may see signs but think it is just growing pains for the child.

But about the weapon...........

Actually they aren't hard to handle at all MeoW and they aren't heavy.

Here is one that looks like the photo of the weapon used in this crime.

http://www.savagearms.com/markigy.htm

Single Shot Rimfire Series
Model MARK I-GY Youth -- now with AccuTrigger
Caliber .22 S, L, LR
Overall Length 37"
Barrel Length 19"
Weight 5 lbs
Magazine Capacity Single shot
Stock Walnut finished hardwood, 12.5" length of pull
Sights Adjustable notched rear sight, bead post front sight
Rifling Rate of Twist 1 in 16"
Features New AccuTrigger, single shot blued barreled action, youth stock design, button-rifled barrel, swivel studs
Suggested Retail $209.00

 

[MeoW333]

Over the objection of prosectuors, the kid is going home with his mom for Thanksgiving:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454984,00.html

Wow! I'm curious to see what we hear after his trip. I'm sure his mother will ask him what happened. Hopefully she can start acting like a "real mother" to him. Lord knows, she hasn't been there for him most of his life.

 

[MeoW333]

He said he knew his mom would be later than she normally was...I think he mentioned 4 hours IIRC.

Many families may see signs but think it is just growing pains for the child.

But about the weapon...........

Actually they aren't hard to handle at all MeoW and they aren't heavy.

Here is one that looks like the photo of the weapon used in this crime.

http://www.savagearms.com/markigy.htm

Single Shot Rimfire Series
Model MARK I-GY Youth -- now with AccuTrigger
Caliber .22 S, L, LR
Overall Length 37"
Barrel Length 19"
Weight 5 lbs
Magazine Capacity Single shot
Stock Walnut finished hardwood, 12.5" length of pull
Sights Adjustable notched rear sight, bead post front sight
Rifling Rate of Twist 1 in 16"
Features New AccuTrigger, single shot blued barreled action, youth stock design, button-rifled barrel, swivel studs
Suggested Retail $209.00

Thank you for the link to the .22, those are light starter guns. I was wondering if there was anything that's not a gun that you could compare the loudness of the shot to; as i am not aware of the sound that comes from one when it is fired?
In my post where i had mentioned he had said he carried his father's gun bag up; i am assuming his father shot a much larger gun than a .22 youth rifle. A larger rifle will be a lot heavier.
If the lying and "growing pains" are consistent; i would hope a family would seek help with a psychologist or counselor. My nephew started lying among other things around age 8 and 9 and my sister lived in denial or didn't care until he got arrested at age 11.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

What is the sound comparable to? A belt cracking against the wall? (i'm not sure, i need to have something to compare it to)
Also, did it say in any of the articles they had carpet? I may have missed..
His father was shot in the middle of the stairs; which most likely came out somewhere near the front door. I'm still trying to figure out if Mr. Romans was talking outside with the door ajar or closed..

LOL :crazy: Gosh since I am not going to fire my 22 in my house, I have no way to tell you exactly what it compares to except it isnt loud and his was a Youth model gun which is smaller.

I dont know where he was....maybe some of the neigbors noticed where he usually was when he was on the phone outside everyday when he came home from work. May have been sitting in his truck with the door open or with the window down.

I can't remember if he told her the door was closed but he said CR called to him so the door must have been opened at that time for him to hear him. He told her he had to go because CR needed him.

If he had heard even one of those shots that was already fired he would never have staid on that phone talking to his wife imo.

imoo

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thank you for the link to the .22, those are light starter guns. I was wondering if there was anything that's not a gun that you could compare the loudness of the shot to; as i am not aware of the sound that comes from one when it is fired?
In my post where i had mentioned he had said he carried his father's gun bag up; i am assuming his father shot a much larger gun than a .22 youth rifle. A larger rifle will be a lot heavier.
If the lying and "growing pains" are consistent; i would hope a family would seek help with a psychologist or counselor. My nephew started lying among other things around age 8 and 9 and my sister lived in denial or didn't care until he got arrested at age 11.

Lying at 8 & 9 is normal

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Over the objection of prosecutors, the kid is going home with his mom for Thanksgiving:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454984,00.html

Thanks.

I am not surprised to see this. I think mostly likely the bio mother will get custody of him eventually. She may have to agree to reside in AZ though.

I highly doubt that anyone else is wanting to have custody of him so it makes it easier for her.

I did notice that the Judge said no knives or guns could be in his presence.

imoo

 

[liljim]

can anyone hazard a guess as to why NO major news source is reporting anything about the phone call? it was testified to by a police officer in a court hearing, it is essential to anyone trying to form an opinion on this case.

it is infuriating.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

can anyone hazard a guess as to why NO major news source is reporting anything about the phone call? it was testified to by a police officer in a court hearing, it is essential to anyone trying to form an opinion on this case.

it is infuriating.

It is typical lil, this is what our media has become.

The media just slings things out there in blips and sound bites. They do not research the case nor even know the most compelling evidence in the case.

More and more on line local print media on cases have far more information that the cable news channels ever do.

That is why I do not watch Nancy Grace anymore......her show should be renamed "Nancy Grace the Queen of Misinformation" and she never even tries to research her cases well enough to go back and clear the false information up that she has put out there for public consumption, night after night.

imoo