AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[Hailiejade77]

Thank you Liljim
I am wondering if it could have been like a drug deal gone bad. I just don't want to think an 8 year old is capable of this. I know that I am most likely wrong and he did do this but I just can't imagine or fathom what would make someone so young do something so horrible!

 

[Julessleuther]

Yes, thank you. Exactly what I meant.

I took her post to mean wrong place/wrong time like witnessing a drug deal or something (maybe stemming from some of the drug/alcohol problems known to plague the Indians) out on the street. Or - they had been witness to something at another place and time and its consequences followed them home.

 

[SoobsinMI]

The recorded interview is the SECOND interview of the child (whose name IS online, at the court documents link provided on page 27) This interview took place one day after the shooting. Intersting also, that the officer claims in court that she interviewed the child a second time, AFTER being given the information from Mrs. Romans the night before, that Mrs. Romans heard his voice in the telephone call with her husband. No WAY she can claim that he was still a witness, IMO.

 

[Julessleuther]

I agree. I am so shocked at some peoples comments here, and I can only guess it is because they do not have children of their own. Have some compassion people, he is not a monster, he is a child. If he did this, yes, what he did was horrible, and his reaction in the interview is horrible and scary, but he still deserves our compassion. Some people here sound like they are ready to go on a witchhunt, for goodness sake.

He does not have the maturity level to COMPLETLY comprehend what he was doing. I know he probably knows right from wrong, but to the same capacity as an adult, even a teenager? Believe me, I am not letting him off the hook. If he is guilty, he should pay for what he has done, but I still pity him. Something led to this. Perhaps he was close with his father, but maybe the stepmother abused him? It would not be the first time this happened. WHY on earth would a father have the stepmother handle a punishment when the father was the one who was angry? That is bizarre to me, and raises a red flag. Even if the boy is a psychopathic killer, you have to remember he is 8 yrs old, a CHILD. How or why he got to that point of being psychopathic is a huge concern to me--children, most normal children would not do something like this, especially at that age. What led him to do this, if in fact he did? Why did the father have full custody? What was going on with the mother? His mother did get custody of him today though...
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/11/20/20081120child-charged1120-ON.html

I couldn't agree more, gitana.

Everytime I listen to that interview, I just want to hug <redacted>. I don't even care if he's not capable of loving anyone but himself - seems to me that those are the ones that need love most of all.

I too am withholding judgment until more evidence comes in. This case is heartbreaking and baffling.

 

[Julessleuther]

So now it is guilty until proven innocent? You, me, and everyone else here at WS does not have the full evidence. I would never presume to know what the real situation is here, until the evidence is present. This child has not been convicted of a crime yet. I, myself, am going to remain impartial until all the evidence is presented. Who are any of us, as amateur sleuthers, to convict someone based on such a small amount of evidence? I think your comment to Ladybass was out of line. She stated her OPINION, which is perfectly legitimate, and her opinion, though different from yours, deserves respect.

WOW! I was wondering how long it would take. I'm not even going to debate the issue with you, I've dealt with many just like you in real life and have learned better than to even try.

I just wish I could still view the world through rose colored glasses.

 

[Julessleuther]

I was wondering that myself. Why did noone hear the gun shots? Also, has a time stamp been released as to when Tim was on the phone with his wife, and when the killings took place. His wife may be completely correct, but talked to Tim much earlier than when the killings took place. Just a thought...

How loud, exactly does a .22 rifle sound when fired inside a house? You'd have to think the sound would echo a bit off the walls. I'm surprised Mr. Roman's didn't hear it outside the door if the boy shot his father walking down the stairs.

 

[Julessleuther]

Thank you for you insight, having lived in the area. I was trying to convey this earlier, but you explained it so much better than I did! :clap:

I moved away from the area where this happened just last month. I'm in another state now but after living there for 3 years I can tell you that

A) the entire county is rife with meth. I have never in my life seen such abuse. It is commonplace to see people with the obvious signs of meth abuse everywhere. I would say 1/3 or more of the people you see in public are abusers current or former. David Spade mentioned the area and it's severe meth problem, in an interview on a late night show (Letterman or Leno) just a few months ago. This might explain the 8 yr olds knowledge of the term "juvie". Many many kids live in poverty in the area due to the drug problem and it is commonplace for teenagers to have probation officers. Seriously.
I don't believe this family had a drug problem but the 8 yr old was around it and saw it daily with neighbors, at school and in public.

B) It is very rural and most people hunt. It's bubba country. Not unusual for an 8 yr old to hunt etc. On the front page of the paper they will print pictures of "11 year old Johnny's first buck" etc. Bubba country big time. Personally I hate hunting but that's irrelevant.

C) It is 35% Mormon. Mormons in that part of the country are good people, but also very strict. Perhaps the Dad was in some extreme religion that was overly strict (in the 8 yr olds opinion) and that was the cause of the shootings?

Just throwing this stuff out there. I think the kid did the shooting hard as it is to comprehend. I think that because he is so unemotional. If it was a false confession (ie; Michael Crowe) I think that an 8 yr old would have worn down in the interview and cried, been frustrated and scared. He seemed to be none. Cool calm and collected.

 

[Julessleuther]

I agree. Kids are kids, and those guns should have been locked up!

The Eddie Eagle Gun Safe program (NRA) recommends that gun owners "Store guns so that they are inaccessible to children and other unauthorized users."
http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/infoparents.asp
I don't care if this kid was the most responsible, trustworthy kid ever, he should have never had unsupervised access to a firearm.

 

[colette]

Julessleuther, I think you are confusing the average child with this child. It speaks volumes that they originally wanted to charge him as an adult. I'm sure the evidence is there or they would not have charged him at all. I think it's very cold blooded that he called Mr. Roman into the home to kill him and most likely laid in wait for his father. Think about it... one bullet reloading after each shot, eight times. Oh, but he actually was doing them a favor by not making them suffer.

 

[liljim]

i have nothing but sympathy for the kid even if he did do exactly what i described on the last page. i have sympathy for the two men killed and all of the families involved. i have sympathy for the investigating officers who seem very shaken up over this.

its just an incredibly sad affair all around.

but i can relate to people who feel that if the boy committed these crimes in the way it appears he may have, and then act like that in a police interview, then they arent sure if he can ever be free again.

i dont think he should ever be held held criminaly responsible as an adult. its ludicrous. and i would like to think that he can be rehabilitated, but i can relate to the people who feel like there is a slim chance that could work.

i would really like to hear from the friend whose house he went to about how he was acting. and from that child's father who came home and got them both and drove them back to the crime scene.

i would also really like to hear some reason why this happened that makes a damn bit of sense.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I was wondering that myself. Why did noone hear the gun shots? Also, has a time stamp been released as to when Tim was on the phone with his wife, and when the killings took place. His wife may be completely correct, but talked to Tim much earlier than when the killings took place. Just a thought...

I am sure that a firearms expert will give their opinion as to how that can happen. I have read before that inside a home the sound is buffered by being absorbed into the walls, furniture or carpet, etc.. Plus a 22 rifle doesn't put off a loud noise in the first place although most assuredly if it was fired out in the open where the sound would travel it could be heard. And it seems that the outside shots were heard by the neighbors across the street.

I gave an example the other day where no one heard a shotgun blast, which is a much louder sound than a 22 rifle and that was in the Winkler case when the shotgun was fired inside the home. No one in their neighborhood heard anything.

I haven't seen the release of that information but I do believe LE has it and it is coinciding with Mrs. Romans statement that he husband hung up with her saying the boy was calling him to come into the home that something bad had happened to his dad. Imo, it also will coincide with the time that the neighbors heard the gunshots. I think Mr. Romans was killed rather shortly after he hung up the phone.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Julessleuther, I think you are confusing the average child with this child. It speaks volumes that they originally wanted to charge him as an adult. I'm sure the evidence is there or they would not have charged him at all. I think it's very cold blooded that he called Mr. Roman into the home to kill him and most likely laid in wait for his father. Think about it... one bullet reloading after each shot, eight times. Oh, but he actually was doing them a favor by not making them suffer.

I know it isn't a popular stance, Colette, but yes, that is the issue here. It is not about a "typical", "normal" or "average" child because "typical", "normal" or "average" children don't do this.

Just because the defendant in this case is a child does not erase their wrongdoings nor in the way in which they planned and carried out those things to these brutal results.

I think if we were learning about any other case where a defendant reloaded their weapon 7 more times or lured one of the victims inside to be killed, most of us would be appalled by such premeditation exhibited.

The only good thing though because he is a child he will mostly be offered rehabilitation and extensive therapy to treat whatever may be wrong with him. Will it work? I think we all hope so but there are no assurances that it will be successful because we aren't talking about a child that may have wound up in juvie because they stole a car or did drugs etc. IMOO this is a very different child, than the majority.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Quote
Even if the boy is a psychopathic killer, you have to remember he is 8 yrs old, a CHILD. How or why he got to that point of being psychopathic is a huge concern to me--children, most normal children would not do something like this, especially at that age. What led him to do this, if in fact he did?

I agree with this statement.This story is just real sad.I would like to think that he can be rehabilitated also if he did this.

suzanne

 

[twinkiesmom]

Here's a case with a homicidal child and no access to guns:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1120081list1.html

Incident ended peacefully in a school disciplinary action.

I think society should make sure parents are responsible for having the guns locked up because children can not legally be held responsible for adult crimes with adult weapons. The desire to kill has no age limit.

 

[Trino]

I agree with this statement.This story is just real sad.I would like to think that he can be rehabilitated also if he did this. suzanne

We all have things in our lives of which we're not proud. Every once in a while some flash or event causes them to resurface, if only momentarily. Still, we never forget. We only repress the memory.

IMO this boy will end up in juvenile detention until he's 18. Upon release, he'll probably change his name and move to another part of the country. Because juvenile records are sealed, he may be living next door to your children or grandchildren. Personally, if I had any idea this was the case, I would be constantly on high alert.

Stats say he has a 50% chance of rehabilitation, whatever that means. Can someone who killed two people, one of whom was his father, really ever forget and move on? Consider post traumatic stress.

 

[tehcloser]

After reading most of this thread I just have one question.... How can anyone think that a child who wants "kisses from his mother to put in his pocket", can be a cold blooded killer is beyond me. He is 8 years old for Christ sake. In no way does he understand the ramifacations of what he has done, much less been able to plan it ahead of time.

 

[SoobsinMI]

And it seems that the outside shots were heard by the neighbors across the street.
imoo

I think it's even more telling that according to a police officer, the neighbors thought they heard "pops, like a gunshot" but didn't even look outside the window until a few minutes later. Although, I will say, that every once in while I hear noise that I believe is from a shotgun, coming from a particular neighbor's house, and I don't even look anymore, because I know they are hunting. So maybe it had more to do with that, than hearing "regular" shots fired.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it's even more telling that according to a police officer, the neighbors thought they heard "pops, like a gunshot" but didn't even look outside the window until a few minutes later. Although, I will say, that every once in while I hear noise that I believe is from a shotgun, coming from a particular neighbor's house, and I don't even look anymore, because I know they are hunting. So maybe it had more to do with that, than hearing "regular" shots fired.

I really don't know. I have read this neighborhood was known as a quiet neighborhood. The neighbors may have convinced themselves at first that it couldn't be shots they heard but it did keep bugging them so they got up to look to see if anything was amiss somewhere.

Yes, I am surrounded by wooded areas and we often hear gunshots and we are so use to it by now that we don't pay much attention to them anymore, especially in hunting season. I do think I would though if the sound seemed very close to me. I would be up and looking outside wanting to know who was trespassing on our land. lol

imoo

 

[Trino]

After reading most of this thread I just have one question.... How can anyone think that a child who wants "kisses from his mother to put in his pocket", can be a cold blooded killer is beyond me. He is 8 years old for Christ sake. In no way does he understand the ramifacations of what he has done, much less been able to plan it ahead of time.

Evidence (other than the video confession) suggests otherwise.

 

[MeoW333]

Folks, I'm going back and editing out the boy's name. I just searched through news reports and I could find none in which he has been named, and he is a minor child. Please don't use his name again until it's being used in the news.

We have to strike a balance here, and I know not everyone will be happy with this, but that's how it's going to be right now.

Thank you.

Thank you, Adnoid; i too have noticed that a couple posters were using the boy's real name. Which is incredibly disrespectful being that he's a minor and his name shouldn't have gotten out at all.
They learned his name through the links for the interview he had with police officers. During the interview, police refer to him by his name.
One poster apparently knew his real name before this..