AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

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  • #701
Hi
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Even if the boy is a psychopathic killer, you have to remember he is 8 yrs old, a CHILD. How or why he got to that point of being psychopathic is a huge concern to me--children, most normal children would not do something like this, especially at that age. What led him to do this, if in fact he did?

I agree with this statement.This story is just real sad.I would like to think that he can be rehabilitated also if he did this.

suzanne

I think the entire situation is tragic. But as far as feeling more sympathy for him or feeling more hope for his rehabilitation because of his age, I am not sure I feel the same way. The result of his actions are the same regardless of his age. The widow of the roommate and her children are not going to have the damage to their lives mitigated because the killer was a child.

It is horrifying to think that someone can be this far "off" at such a young age, but lets say he is rehabilitated and released at 18 or 21 with a sealed record. Do you want your son rooming with him at college, sharing an apartment, do you want your adult daughter dating him? If the answer is no you don't really think he can be rehabiliated either. Short of there being a reason he was desperate enough to do something this horrible, which does not appear to be the case from the interviews, it is not a gamble I really want to take.

And as far as we have to feel sympathy for him and wonder how he got this way, at what age do we stop doing that? If he was 16 and gunned two people down do we still need to know what happened and feel sympathy for him? What if he was 22? Most sex offenders have a horrific story of their own, most of them start offending before they are capable of understanding the damage they cause in their wake.... what is the age cut off for rehabilitation and sympathy? I guess I don't share in the great faith in humanity that everyone has the potential to be a better person. I tend to think sometimes the wiring is just messed up, just like any other living creature.
 
  • #702
The boy's name was printed in an early news report on the murders.
 
  • #703
After reading most of this thread I just have one question.... How can anyone think that a child who wants "kisses from his mother to put in his pocket", can be a cold blooded killer is beyond me. He is 8 years old for Christ sake. In no way does he understand the ramifacations of what he has done, much less been able to plan it ahead of time.

I don't find that one excludes the other. One of the deepest human mysteries is our duality - that inside the same single human at the very same time can reside a child desperate for a mother's kiss and a cold-blooded killer.

Evidence suggests the child planned this. Reality tells us he is a child and does not have an adult understanding of his actions.
 
  • #704
I think the entire situation is tragic. But as far as feeling more sympathy for him or feeling more hope for his rehabilitation because of his age, I am not sure I feel the same way. The result of his actions are the same regardless of his age. The widow of the roommate and her children are not going to have the damage to their lives mitigated because the killer was a child.

It is horrifying to think that someone can be this far "off" at such a young age, but lets say he is rehabilitated and released at 18 or 21 with a sealed record. Do you want your son rooming with him at college, sharing an apartment, do you want your adult daughter dating him? If the answer is no you don't really think he can be rehabiliated either. Short of there being a reason he was desperate enough to do something this horrible, which does not appear to be the case from the interviews, it is not a gamble I really want to take.

And as far as we have to feel sympathy for him and wonder how he got this way, at what age do we stop doing that? If he was 16 and gunned two people down do we still need to know what happened and feel sympathy for him? What if he was 22? Most sex offenders have a horrific story of their own, most of them start offending before they are capable of understanding the damage they cause in their wake.... what is the age cut off for rehabilitation and sympathy? I guess I don't share in the great faith in humanity that everyone has the potential to be a better person. I tend to think sometimes the wiring is just messed up, just like any other living creature.

I asked this questions earlier in the thread. Of course, I do host a great faith in humanity and a belief that we all grow towards the light. But I don't have a problem with protecting the larger society from people unable or unwilling to play by the rules.

We cannot know this boy's chance of growing and changing. We cannot know anyone's chance of that, regardless of their age. I think because of his age, he is more likely to be exposed to more helping resources than if he was a 33-year-old who killed two people.
 
  • #705
They learned his name through the links for the interview he had with police officers. During the interview, police refer to him by his name.
One poster apparently knew his real name before this..

I didn't learn his name through links concerning the video (not that I have used his name) but the full name is on a link with court information provided to the public, by the court clerk.

I do agree with not necessarily using his name since he's a minor, however.
 
  • #706
And as far as we have to feel sympathy for him and wonder how he got this way, at what age do we stop doing that? If he was 16 and gunned two people down do we still need to know what happened and feel sympathy for him? What if he was 22? Most sex offenders have a horrific story of their own, most of them start offending before they are capable of understanding the damage they cause in their wake.... what is the age cut off for rehabilitation and sympathy? I guess I don't share in the great faith in humanity that everyone has the potential to be a better person. I tend to think sometimes the wiring is just messed up, just like any other living creature.


I see a HUGE difference between an 8 year old and a 16 year old, and their actions. Probably because I have a 7 year old and a 15 yeard old at home right now. They do NOT process things the same way. At all.
 
  • #707
I see a HUGE difference between an 8 year old and a 16 year old, and their actions. Probably because I have a 7 year old and a 15 yeard old at home right now. They do NOT process things the same way. At all.

I get that. I am really torn because part of me says if we can not intercede with an 8 year old and get them the help we need then our rehabilitation system is completely ineffective, but then the other side of me says how many cases and victims of criminals with previous acts of violence do we have to see before we accept what we don't want to accept about human nature.... that some people cannot be fixed no matter what resources you make available.

*I am not talking about this eight year old specifically, but a more general level.*
 
  • #708
I still think there is more to this.

He's 8 years old people. I have a 7yo and that's what makes this so incomprehensible to me. Oh yes...people and kids do terrible things every day. But this is one is just off a little.......................
 
  • #709
I didn't learn his name through links concerning the video (not that I have used his name) but the full name is on a link with court information provided to the public, by the court clerk.

I do agree with not necessarily using his name since he's a minor, however.

I didn't realize you used his name Soobs. I meant OBE; who has been referring to his name in a few posts..
 
  • #710
I do agree with you to a certain point. People, no matter what age, should be held accountable for their actions. I am, under no uncertain terms, saying that this boy should get off scott free. However, I can also tell you that there is a VAST amount of difference between a 16 yr old, and an 8 yr old. There is even a vast amount of difference between a 10 yr old and an 8 yr old. I think this boy does not/did not have the emotional maturity to understand the consequence of his actions. If he did do this, there is definitely something wrong with him, and he needs to be both punished and evaluated as to why he did this. Which brings me to the crux of my opinion of this discussion: 1. He did not receive the proper LEGAL representation that is afforded citizens who are under suspicion of a crime. I do not care what the police say, I am sure there is a certain amount of CYA going on there, but you cannot have it both ways. You(not you personally, but people in general) cannot say that he was not looked at as as suspect, but as a victim, and that is why he was interviewed alone, but then ALSO state that the police already knew about the telephone call with Tim and his wife, as well as the other witness statements BEFORE going into the interview with the boy. Some here have stated that the police KNEW he was lying and were trying to get him to confess. IF they knew he was lying already, the interview should have been stopped, and he should have received legal council, or at the very least, a child advocate. EVERY US citizen is entitled to as much, and he should have been given that. 2. If he is guilty, and I will admit that it is looking more like he is, based on the evidence we DO have, then I want to know why he did this. In order for society as a whole to prevent further situations like this, society needs to know what is going wrong that children are killing their parents, parents are killing their children, etc. We need to not ONLT punish, but to determine why this is hapening, and only then will we be able to help those that need help, so there are not situations like this. That is why I feel for this boy, as well as for the victims, and the families of the victims. There is a reason WHY he did this. It may not fit into our idea of right and wrong, but there is a reason, and psychiatrists are going to have to get that out of this boy, in order to help him. I do not feel that sex offenders can be rehabilitated and released. I do not have an opinion on killers, but I tend to think that they also, cannot be rehabilitated. What I hope is that we can figure out why people do these things and try to help them before they attack, or be able to better look for signs of mental illness. This boy is mentally ill if he did this, and that is why I pity him. He has ruined not only his father and fathers friends lives, but their families, the boys family, the communities, and his own. Very, very sad, and if we just point fingers and call names, we are perpetuating the hatred.

I think the entire situation is tragic. But as far as feeling more sympathy for him or feeling more hope for his rehabilitation because of his age, I am not sure I feel the same way. The result of his actions are the same regardless of his age. The widow of the roommate and her children are not going to have the damage to their lives mitigated because the killer was a child.

It is horrifying to think that someone can be this far "off" at such a young age, but lets say he is rehabilitated and released at 18 or 21 with a sealed record. Do you want your son rooming with him at college, sharing an apartment, do you want your adult daughter dating him? If the answer is no you don't really think he can be rehabiliated either. Short of there being a reason he was desperate enough to do something this horrible, which does not appear to be the case from the interviews, it is not a gamble I really want to take.

And as far as we have to feel sympathy for him and wonder how he got this way, at what age do we stop doing that? If he was 16 and gunned two people down do we still need to know what happened and feel sympathy for him? What if he was 22? Most sex offenders have a horrific story of their own, most of them start offending before they are capable of understanding the damage they cause in their wake.... what is the age cut off for rehabilitation and sympathy? I guess I don't share in the great faith in humanity that everyone has the potential to be a better person. I tend to think sometimes the wiring is just messed up, just like any other living creature.
 
  • #711
It would be "wonderful" if a person can read another person's mind and know what they may or may not do, the rational and logical reason why people commit crimes, why they harm others in order to stop it.

But, just in the last few days, our city was "in shock" at the news that four bodies were found in a house. Two adults and two adult children.

The family was well known on the street, well thought of, everyone knew them and only had great things to say about them. This case dominated the news every night. The Police and the public were very concerned that "a killer" was on the loose.

As it turned out, the Father killed the Mother, his daughter, his son and his dog and left a note on the front door, that read do not enter, call Police.

So the question would be why..........we can only speculate, we can on "imagine"......and no one "could" have prevented this, as it was not foreseen in any capacity.

There are so many reasons and until someone says "to another" this is my intention, stop me, the killings will continue, that is until we all live in a perfect world, with a perfect job, in a perfect house with a perfect family with no problems. Utopia.......
 
  • #712
For those of you who don't think an 8 year old could do this....

I worked with a 9 year old who was in a car chase/shoot out with the police. He admitted that he knew full well what he was doing.

I worked with another child, who at the age of 9 got high and had sex.

Someone I worked with worked with a child around the same age who killed a younger sibling. And had no remorse.

There are some kids who can be rehabilitated, some who can't, and some who fake it. It is perfectly within the realm of possibility for a child to so something like this for what most would consider no apparent reason. It's also possible that if the child did do this, he had been pushed to the breaking point by very real trauma that he suffered. No one knows right now which it is.

When you've worked with the "bad" kids, the abused kids, and the mentally ill kids, you see a lot of different things. Every situation is different and needs to be handled differently. But you also realize that sometimes, as sad as it is, there are kids who just cannot be helped. That doesn't mean that people shouldn't try to help them, just that sometimes people need to realize that everything you can offer sometimes isn't enough.
 
  • #713
For those of you who don't think an 8 year old could do this.....

I've never said he COULDN'T have done this. I've only questioned WHY. And I'm not ready to write off an 8 year old child, who has no history of abnormal behavior, yet.

I HAVE questioned LE's actions...and I find them duplicitous at best.
 
  • #714
  • #715
Hi
Is the results back or made public yet of the autopsy reports?I'm sorry I do not know about guns at all.I will not have them in my house.I'm a little confused.This articles says "Crime Scene video released by police show four casings inside the house. One by Romero’s listless body, the other three on the staircase."and then it says Andreas said detectives told them the boy fired four shots at his father Vincent who was walking upstairs, and then six shots at Tim.There are only 4 casings?Shouldn't there be 10?were any casings found out side?The boy did say he shot at the car.I'm sorry I just do not know about guns at all.I don't understand this.I wonder if there was some one else in the house.

suzanne
 
  • #716
thanx for the link blue, i just got in from work.

slightly different information there, looks like shelby was right;

3 casings on the stairs and 1 by the fathers body (i thought they reported some in the upstairs hallway).

and 6 shots fired at tim which may reinforce my idea that it took longer for tim to stop moving.

we arent likeely to hear much more i guess until the next hearing which is dec. 3rd? i think.

as someone stated above that there is a possibility that some children at 8 can underdstand the ramifications of their actions, i would suggest that this just may be one of those cases. its a hunting family, the boy says himself that he understands the concept of "ending somethings suffering". and i would imagine since they had an animal skin on the front porch and it was a hunting family that they boy had been exposed to the cleaning and skinning of animals, and quite likely (and certainly hopefully) he had received many talks about never pointing the gun at a human and what bad things can happen if you do.

now, whether or not he understood those ideas in an "adult way" is certainly up for debate, but i think there are some/rare cases where kids of that age do appear to get it.

the thing that keeps sticking with me is the reloading and the number of shots fired. it certainly implies that it wasnt an accident or that he thought the house was being robbed or something, and it also makes it clear that he wasnt trying to hurt them and run away, he wanted to kill them. in whatever way he understood "death" he wanted them to be dead.

the comment to the grandmother also is really troubling, not only because it indicates that he is likely the one that fired all the shots, but because it indicates a disconnect from the feelings of grandmother. you can argue that he was in shock, or that many kids that age would say inappropriate things, but something about the comment in the context of everything else we know gives me the heebie-jeebies.

still much more to learn about this case. just my impressions.
 
  • #717
suzanne, yeah they omitted or were not told how many casings were found outside, so they just mention that 4 casings were found inside, and tim was hit 6 times.

so i would imagine the police found 6 casings outside and that the family spokesperson either wasnt told that detail for sure or just didnt include it in his comments.

and regarding someone else being in the house, there is still a slight possibility i guess that someone else was there with another weapon that also used the same ammunition, because even tho the ballistics arent back im sure they feel strongly that all the casings are identical, same type and manufacturer. my point is that when they said all the bullets were fired from the same gun in the interview i dont think they knew that for a 100% certainty because only ballistic examination can prove that. but they felt fairly sure that things were looking like one shooter and one gun.
 
  • #718
  • #719
Hi
How many times do they know each person was shot and where from the autopsy report.Where can I get all this information.This isn't adding up for me.

suzanne
 
  • #720
suz, there have been mixed reports and i dont believe the autopsy reports have been released. i dont think we can be sure exactly how many shots each man was hit with until the autopsy report is public. but it sounds like it was either 6 and 4, or 5 and 5, in that neighborhood.

oh, i suppose if the crime scene evidence comes out that will show it too, however many casings they found minus one for the shot that appears to have missed and gone thru the screen door. and ummm the possibility of other missed shots hehe.

so i guess we will know how many shots fired when the crime scene info is released, and how many times each man was shot only when the autopsy report is.
 
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