AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi

So if I understand this right.The police arrested this little boy on his confession and none of the forensic evidence or the ME report was back yet?I feel the police really jumped the gun here.

suzanne

 

[ginzy]

These 2 boys were cleared.

http://cbs2chicago.com/seenon/Floyd.Durr.Ryan.2.326695.html

Two boys, then 7 and 8, were accused in the death of the girl, who had been sexually assaulted, making them the youngest murder suspects in the nation at the time. It took almost a month before they were cleared in the killing after tests showed semen on the girl's clothing could not have come from the children.

DNA tests later led prosecutors to charge Durr, a convicted sex offender whose history, prosecutors outlined in court Monday, includes the sexual assault of three girls in 1998.

Meanwhile, the city has settled lawsuits filed by the boys' families against the city and two police detectives for more than $8 million -- the second settlement coming last year during the civil trial.

oh thank GOD that just broke my heart to think these 2 little boys could do something so horrible. My guess is they were pressured to say what LE wanted them to say.

 

[PattyCake]

Hi

So if I understand this right.The police arrested this little boy on his confession and none of the forensic evidence or the ME report was back yet?I feel the police really jumped the gun here.

suzanne

me too, wondering if this child really actually did this. As I stated above, you can make a child say anything to get out of trouble. Even if it's a horrific lie. I just cannot understand any of this for one second.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi

So if I understand this right.The police arrested this little boy on his confession and none of the forensic evidence or the ME report was back yet?I feel the police really jumped the gun here.

suzanne

The Judge is the one that decides if there is probable cause in a case, not LE or the DA. The Judge said there was.......It is on the Apache County website.

Both autopsy reports were turned over to the defense at the first of last week, irrc. It is also on the Apache County website.

That is why they had a hearing on Nov. 10th ( think) where people for the state testified, then the Judge decides from that whether there was probable cause, which he did.

No forensics in any case comes back instantly. The testing will take time when sent to all the forensic agencies assisting in the case. It doesn't have to all be forensic evidence either. It will be a combination of forensics and eye and ear witness and other circumstantial evidence.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi

Quote
Both autopsy reports were turned over to the defense at the first of last week.

Then it was decided to drop charges against the little boy for his fathers death?I wonder why?I hope they say something.I do not think people can even try to figure this out if all the information is not and was not there.

suzanne

 

[SewingDeb]

I must have missed something...where does it say the charges were dropped against the little boy for his father's murder?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi

Quote
Both autopsy reports were turned over to the defense at the first of last week.

Then it was decided to drop charges against the little boy for his fathers death?I wonder why?I hope they say something.I do not think people can even try to figure this out if all the information is not and was not there.

suzanne

The DA will make no statement imo and the defense attorney shouldn't either. However, I did read an article over the weekend where the defense attorney stated he didn't know if the dismissal wasn't to gain a tactical advantage. He seemed shocked by the motion.

Remember the DA made it very clear in his motion that he can refile these charges so he will not talk about the Romero case that will still be ongoing and open.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I must have missed something...where does it say the charges were dropped against the little boy for his father's murder?

The DA has a motion to dismiss but he bolded WITHOUT PREJUDICE which means of course he is putting them on notice that he can refile at anytime.

The Judge has to agree though.

The DA knows this boy is going to be tried in juvey and whether he killed one or 50 he still gets the same amount of time.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
The forensic evidence isn't back yet?

suzanne

 

[Trino]

The DA has a motion to dismiss but he bolded WITHOUT PREJUDICE which means of course he is putting them on notice that he can refile at anytime. The Judge has to agree though.The DA knows this boy is going to be tried in juvey and whether he killed one or 50 he still gets the same amount of time.

imoo

I don't think you understand this. The judge dismissed charges against killing the father NOT THE BOARDER because it was so harsh. This means that they boy can be charged once he reaches the age of 18.

Charges were not dismissed.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think you understand this. The judge dismissed charges against killing the father NOT THE BOARDER because it was so harsh. This means that they boy can be charged once he reaches the age of 18.

Charges were not dismissed.

Ok I am confused. The DA put in a motion to dismiss the charges on the father. The Judge has the motion that he filed and will either accept or reject. Has he accepted it already today? It was just filed Friday afternoon.

You are right. He can refile these charges at anytime. He will only be able to get whatever the sentence would have been for this boy at the time of the crime though, which would be another 10 years.

 

[Trino]

Ok I am confused. The DA put in a motion to dismiss the charges on the father. The Judge has the motion that he filed and will either accept or reject. Has he accepted it already today? It was just filed Friday afternoon.

You are right. He can refile these charges at anytime. He will only be able to get whatever the sentence would have been for this boy at the time of the crime though, which would be another 10 years.

I doubt that the judge has accepted it and probably won't until the boy's next hearing, which I believe is 3 Dec. BUT, there is no motion to do any changes to the charge of killing the boarder. The motion is only against killing the father.

This is a good prosecution move. The boy will end up in juvenile until he's 18. Then, charges would most likely be filed when he reaches 18. At that time, there will be less public outcry, and, of course, he may receive less than 10 yrs.

 

[capps]

Someone asked how loud a .22 is when fired. LOUD. That's why it's advisable to wear hearing protection when you fire one. No matter who fired the gun, it ought to have been heard from outside of the house and down the road. That's why I can't believe that the roommate was outside of the house when the father was shot. Who would enter a house, after hearing a gunshot?

You would have thought someone somewhere would have heard it and been suspicious. It wasn't just one or two shots,wasn't it something like consecutive 8 to 10 shots.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I doubt that the judge has accepted it and probably won't until the boy's next hearing, which I believe is 3 Dec. BUT, there is no motion to do any changes to the charge of killing the boarder. The motion is only against killing the father.

This is a good prosecution move. The boy will end up in juvenile until he's 18. Then, charges would most likely be filed when he reaches 18. At that time, there will be less public outcry, and, of course, he may receive less than 10 yrs.

I went and looked and I see what you mean. He is dismissing the first COUNT. He is just pulling it away from the Romans case.

Right.......they are going forward with Mr. Romans murder.

Thanks.

 

[Linda7NJ]

He definitely is well spoken. It shows that he is a very engaging person and knows how to have a conversation with anyone.

But I have known some children who were the only child living in the home where there are only adults and they do seem to be more mature than others.

imoo

My son is an only and as such has been afforded more opportunities to develop mature conversation skills. He too is very engaging.

 

[Linda7NJ]

quoted from link above:
"Judge Michael Roca ruled that the boy could be released for 48 hours to spend Thanksgiving with his mother. Thomas said her son wanted to see the movie "Kung Fu Panda" and play games during his parole."
I hope she doesn't let him play any violent video games! JMO
I am not saying that violent video game playing causes kids to kill people. But I do believe kids that "aren't normal" that play violent video games can contribute to their dissolution that its ok to kill. JMO

If he did do this...and I think he did..........rewarding him with movies, popcorn and video games is INSANE

 

[Trino]

You would have thought someone somewhere would have heard it and been suspicious. It wasn't just one or two shots,wasn't it something like consecutive 8 to 10 shots.

Neighbors did report hearing pops, but a .22 doesn't make that much noise, so no one reported anything.

 

[PattyCake]

I doubt that the judge has accepted it and probably won't until the boy's next hearing, which I believe is 3 Dec. BUT, there is no motion to do any changes to the charge of killing the boarder. The motion is only against killing the father.

This is a good prosecution move. The boy will end up in juvenile until he's 18. Then, charges would most likely be filed when he reaches 18. At that time, there will be less public outcry, and, of course, he may receive less than 10 yrs.

But if this is their plans, then why wouldn't they dismiss for the other killing for now? Then I would think he would get far more time?

There again, he would still be charged and convicted as a juvenile, he could not be charged as an adult just because they 'waited' until then. It would still be based on when the crime happened.

 

[Trino]

But if this is their plans, then why wouldn't they dismiss for the other killing for now? Then I would think he would get far more time?

There again, he would still be charged and convicted as a juvenile, he could not be charged as an adult just because they 'waited' until then. It would still be based on when the crime happened.

The bio mother has not indicated there were signs of abuse, nor has anyone else, but a defense lawyer would need to try anything to get a reduced sentence. A trial like this could go on for many weeks/months and could cost $$$. With only charging him with killing the boarder, it would be easier to a) reprimand the boy to a juvenile facility, b) decrease public outcry. AZ law allows the boy to be tried as an adult for a juvenile crime. This is a win/win situation for both the prosecution and defense.

 

[anthrobones]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but did the news ever report anything of substance about the other man that was killed. Why was he there? Was he living with them, or a visitor, or what?