AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[OrdinaryLife]

"I think I shot him twice because he was suffering". What is up with that sentence? There is more to this. Much more to this story.

Charges against murdering his father dropped, though the other count still stands. I wonder if there is more of an interesting dynamic between the two men vs just this child? He should have had an advocate there for him. As soon as the discussion began to change with the questions asked, there should have been a legal counsel for this child. Sorry, but I still await the results of many legal/psychological questions and tests done.

This smells wrong...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, but they clearly said several times that the mother was not allowed to specifically talk about the case, so I don't think she is allowed to come right out and state that he is innocent. I very much took from her comments that she thinks he is innocent, a "regular little boy." She does not discuss the boys relationship with the stepmother, which I think is curious. In listening to the confession tape again, I can definitely see where the police are putting words into the boys mouth--I really think this confession will be thrown out. I am very curious if they found GSR on the boys clothing...

She seems to indicate that he had a very happy and good life. And with him calling his step mom "mom" I think he loves his new mom too.

The Judge also put the stepmother's name on the list as one of the ones that can see him.

The DA may not even enter the confession and will go strictly by the evidence found.

But I have never seen an ex gushing with good things to say when it comes to the new wife or husband anyway. lol

imoo

 

[Trino]

Right, she was very nondescript.Innocent until proven guilty wouldn't be said by me if I were his mother. If I thought he was innocent I would say that clearly no matter what the term is for the law.imoo

Agreed.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

"I think I shot him twice because he was suffering". What is up with that sentence? There is more to this. Much more to this story.

Charges against murdering his father dropped, though the other count still stands. I wonder if there is more of an interesting dynamic between the two men vs just this child? He should have had an advocate there for him. As soon as the discussion began to change with the questions asked, there should have been a legal counsel for this child. Sorry, but I still await the results of many legal/psychological questions and tests done.

This smells wrong...

The charges have been pulled from this one case. They are going to try him for one murder now.

The DA clearly states he is doing this WITHOUT PREJUDICE which means the case can be refiled at anytime....even 10 years from now.

If he was going to dismiss the charges all together he would have put his motion in to read WITH PREJUDICE which would mean he has no intentions of refiling the case in the future.

He has been assigned a Guardian ad Litem.

 

[southcitymom]

I think he just did not know how to cope with his own rage. The more media reports come out, the more it is mentioned that this child was having trouble in school and the dad was treating it as a discipline issue. I believe he had an undiagnosed learning disorder.

I wonder if his young father realized that kids today need help with their homework and can not be left to their own devices to get it done? Was anyone watching him from when the bus left off to when his parents got home?

You have said this all along and that may be a contributing factor.

I did want to say that not all kids need help with their homework. My 6 and 8 year olds do and always have done their homework with little to no help or supervision from me. There is structure in place, but they are left to their own devices. I did homework for 16 years and I'm not doing any more!

That said, children with learning disabilities do benefit from parental assistance with homework.

 

[southcitymom]

I do think he had his perceived "reasons" and I think they will turn out to be senseless but to him they were enough to kill at that time.

Everyone who kills has a reason.

 

[mostlylurking]

"I think I shot him twice because he was suffering". What is up with that sentence? There is more to this. Much more to this story.

Charges against murdering his father dropped, though the other count still stands. I wonder if there is more of an interesting dynamic between the two men vs just this child? He should have had an advocate there for him. As soon as the discussion began to change with the questions asked, there should have been a legal counsel for this child. Sorry, but I still await the results of many legal/psychological questions and tests done.

This smells wrong...

The charges have been pulled from this one case. They are going to try him for one murder now.

The DA clearly states he is doing this WITHOUT PREJUDICE which means the case can be refiled at anytime....even 10 years from now.

If he was going to dismiss the charges all together he would have put his motion in to read WITH PREJUDICE which would mean he has no intentions of refiling the case in the future.

He has been assigned a Guardian ad Lidum.

OBE, this "with prejudice" think has been explained in what feels like ad infinitum to me by I think several posters. Legalese aside, I agree with OL. Something just doesn't seem right in all of this, and I also await all the legal/psychological questions and their results.

Whether what he stated is a confession or not, his rights were grossly abused in the collection of that information and its release to the public.

As far as his mom saying "what happned to innocent until proven guilty" goes, what the he** else is she supposed to say? Most people have already tried and convicted this 8 YEAR OLD CHILD without knowing ALL the evidence -- which is still being collected and analyzed by professionals (and over analyzed by the rest of us).

Whether he is guilty because of thus far defending himself from undiscussed abuse, sociopathic & in need of therapy or totally innocent and set up by some other adult that we know nothing about....., there is no hope for this CHILD to be accepted back into society at much of any level from what I see. And, there is no way that I see that he can even get a fair trial now, given how it has been handled.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

OBE, this "with prejudice" think has been explained in what feels like ad infinitum to me by I think several posters. Legalese aside, I agree with OL. Something just doesn't seem right in all of this, and I also await all the legal/psychological questions and their results.

Whether what he stated is a confession or not, his rights were grossly abused in the collection of that information and its release to the public.

As far as his mom saying "what happned to innocent until proven guilty" goes, what the he** else is she supposed to say? Most people have already tried and convicted this 8 YEAR OLD CHILD without knowing ALL the evidence -- which is still being collected and analyzed by professionals (and over analyzed by the rest of us).

Whether he is guilty because of thus far defending himself from undiscussed abuse, sociopathic & in need of therapy or totally innocent and set up by some other adult that we know nothing about....., there is no hope for this CHILD to be accepted back into society at much of any level from what I see. And, there is no way that I see that he can even get a fair trial now, given how it has been handled.

Very well stated ML. I can only hope that regardless of the outcome of this case, this child is not tossed away. At the age young age of 8 years, I would hope that there are those out there that can help this child. He is not a lost soul, yet. Forgotten and judged, he will be. I hope the "powers" that be can help/will be there.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Quote
I hope the "powers" that be can help/will be there.

I hope so too.

suzanne

 

[harleysnana]

"I think I shot him twice because he was suffering". What is up with that sentence? There is more to this. Much more to this story.

My first thought when I heard this tape....
is it possible that he did not do the initial shooting but like he first said
on the tape that he walked in and found his dad still breathing
but then found the gun and decided to end his suffering?

I agree that something is not right with this!
I could totally see this little boy walking in finding his dad bleeding
and moaning and him taking the gun to "end his suffering".

IMO sounds like something a dad would say to an 8 year old boy who he was
hunting with if they walked up on a half dead duck!
"son we need to shoot him so he doesn't suffer"
JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

My first thought when I heard this tape....
is it possible that he did not do the initial shooting but like he first said
on the tape that he walked in and found his dad still breathing
but then found the gun and decided to end his suffering?

I agree that something is not right with this!
I could totally see this little boy walking in finding his dad bleeding
and moaning and him taking the gun to "end his suffering".

IMO sounds like something a dad would say to an 8 year old boy who he was
hunting with if they walked up on a half dead duck!
"son we need to shoot him so he doesn't suffer"
JMO

Couldn't happen that way....because he then lured and killed the roomie

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Couldn't happen that way....because he then lured and killed the roomie

We'll see if that's a fact and *if* it is, the reason why. There is more to this story.....

 

[anthrobones]

I'm so confused by this. Why does the kid say that he "thinks" he shot the two men?

 

[mysteriew]

Couldn't happen that way....because he then lured and killed the roomie

That is one of the many things that bother me about this case.

What we know so far:
Child allegedly plans the murder of at least his father
Child allegedly shoots his father with the rifle.
Child allegedly waits for roomie to come home and according to the wife, he calls to the roomie that something is wrong with his father and he asks him to come inside.
Roomie allegedly hangs up the phone and starts inside.....

Yet the roomie is killed outside??? That doesn't make sense to me. If the roomie was headed in, the kid would be more likely to be in front of the door waiting for him. Even if he got anxious and couldn't wait, he would be more likely to step outside and shoot while the roomie was closer to the car, at least be aiming away from the house because he would be in the doorway or just outside the house. And remember, we are talking about a rifle here, not a handgun. So the length of the rifle has to be taken into account. (has LE verified the phone call between the wife and the roomie yet?)

A question was raised earlier why any hypothetical intruder would choose a youth rifle over any other weapons in the home. I can think of one explanation. It would depend on how the father handled his guns. If he kept his weapons locked up or even in his bedroom, any hypothetical intruder might not have had access to them. But this weapon was fairly recent in the home, it was the boys own weapon and he was allowed access to it. It may have even been kept downstairs. So the father may not have thought it needed to be kept locked or just may not have gotten a lock for it yet. So it may have been just what was handiest.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE, this "with prejudice" think has been explained in what feels like ad infinitum to me by I think several posters. Legalese aside, I agree with OL. Something just doesn't seem right in all of this, and I also await all the legal/psychological questions and their results.

Whether what he stated is a confession or not, his rights were grossly abused in the collection of that information and its release to the public.

As far as his mom saying "what happened to innocent until proven guilty" goes, what the he** else is she supposed to say? Most people have already tried and convicted this 8 YEAR OLD CHILD without knowing ALL the evidence -- which is still being collected and analyzed by professionals (and over analyzed by the rest of us).

Whether he is guilty because of thus far defending himself from undiscussed abuse, sociopath & in need of therapy or totally innocent and set up by some other adult that we know nothing about....., there is no hope for this CHILD to be accepted back into society at much of any level from what I see. And, there is no way that I see that he can even get a fair trial now, given how it has been handled.

I do think he can receive a fair trial. Juvenile cases are tried by a sitting Judge, not a jury so the publicity will not sway the Judge imo. He will fully expect the DA to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt. If he is convicted he will be rehabilitated and given extensive therapy.

I do wholeheartedly believe that once he started talking about shooting them they should have immediately stopped. So the confession needs to be tossed although I have read that the rules of evidence is much different in a juvenile case rather in adult court. So I guess we will have to wait for the Judge's ruling and we don't even know if the DA plans to introduce it in the Romans case.

I would imagine if he is found innocent and not charged with the murder of his father, he will go to Mississippi to live with his mom.

I do agree that he may have some type of disorder, however I don't think it will rise to the level where he could plead legal insanity. He seems to be really a smart, engaging boy.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
The little boy says I think so through out the whole interview.He is asked did you kill your father.He says I think so.

suzanne

 

[Shelby77]

IIRC the defense did file a motion for a jury trial...forgive me if I use the wrong terminology. Idk what the chances of it happening are, but I suppose the defense must feel he could sway a jury easier than a judge...

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Quote

IIRC the defense did file a motion for a jury trial...forgive me if I use the wrong terminology. Idk what the chances of it happening are, but I suppose the defense must feel he could sway a jury easier than a judge...

I wonder why.Is judge Roca?going to try this little boys case.I thought he sounded like a very fair judge.

suzanne

 

[mysteriew]

I'm so confused by this. Why does the kid say that he "thinks" he shot the two men?

I don't know this for fact, but when you see someone on TV being interviewed you sometimes see them talking about hypotheticals as in "why do you think someone may have done this, or why would someone have done this?" I have a feeling that the kids interview may have gone like this.

Kids think very differently than adults. And if an ultra authority figure like an LE asks a young kid something like "why do you think you would do it like this" a kid takes that literally.... he will answer why he might do it like that, even if he didn't do it. This kid is showing a lot of signs of trying to please the female deputy, and that is dangerous in a situation where they are trying to get the truth from him. Is it really the truth or an attempt to say what she wants him to say? Is it really a confession or an attempt to answer her questions, even if he doesn't really know?


This reminds me a lot of the day care crime that never happened somewhere.... investigators got a complaint of sex abuse at a day care. They brought all the day care kids in and asked them a bunch of leading questions. They got answers that eventually led to all the day operators being accused of everything from sex abuse, to and witchcraft. Yet later the children's accounts were put into question because of the way they were interviewed. It is thought that the alleged crimes never really happened.

 

[harleysnana]

Couldn't happen that way....because he then lured and killed the roomie

I still think it could!
Maybe he killed the roomate because he thought that was who killed his dad!
We don't know.....