AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #1

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
Quote

IIRC the defense did file a motion for a jury trial...forgive me if I use the wrong terminology. Idk what the chances of it happening are, but I suppose the defense must feel he could sway a jury easier than a judge...

I wonder why.Is judge Roca?going to try this little boys case.I thought he sounded like a very fair judge.

suzanne

Since he is seems to be the Presiding Judge I do think most likely he will be the one.

He declined the defense attorney's motion for a jury trial.

Usually defense attorneys don't like to try a case in front of a Judge only. They have seen so much and do not attach emotion to a case like a jury may.

imoo

 

[txsvicki]

Has there been any mention of what grade this boy was in and if his grades and school work recently took a big nose dive? I'm wondering if he had a particular hard and critical teacher who was having to focus heavily on the TAKS type tests this year. Sometimes school can cause a sort of anxiety disorder in children according to my g. kids' doctor. It's horrible to think that school work pressure and a spanking could have caused this tragedy. I'm waiting to see if the boy really did it, wasn't really abused, threatened to be kept from any fun in or out of school, kept from his mother, threatened with alternative school, juvie, or suffering from childhood onset schizoprenia or some severe mental problem. I'll never believe that small children barely alive only a few years could do this on their own without some reason, real or imagined.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
The little boy says I think so through out the whole interview.He is asked did you kill your father.He says I think so.

suzanne

I went back and read some more of the transcripts.

I noticed that on the night they were murdered the grandmother was having a conversation with the boy and mentioned to him that she hoped her son went quickly and the boy said he didn't think he did, because he was shot in the chest.

Then the officer who saw the body of VR at the scene said by looking at his body you could not tell that he had been shot in the chest but he could tell he had been shot in the head by all the blood on his head. VR was laying face down with his back side up.

 

[Shelby77]

I thought I remembered that the grandmother was talking to the aunt (possibly the one in Panama, by phone that night) and said she believed or hoped he went quickly and CR said he didn't think so because he had gotten shot in the chest.
I'm only pointing that out because I found even slightly more disturbing that he would offer up that information when he wasn't even being spoken to at the time, it's not like the comment was directed at him and he felt forced to say something and it just came out. That must've really gotten the grandmothers attention if she hadn't found out about the chest wound yet herself....

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Did the boy see blood on thier shirts that it looked like they were shot in the chest.

suzanne

 

[tapu]

I don't know this for fact, but when you see someone on TV being interviewed you sometimes see them talking about hypotheticals as in "why do you think someone may have done this, or why would someone have done this?" I have a feeling that the kids interview may have gone like this.

Kids think very differently than adults. And if an ultra authority figure like an LE asks a young kid something like "why do you think you would do it like this" a kid takes that literally.... he will answer why he might do it like that, even if he didn't do it. This kid is showing a lot of signs of trying to please the female deputy, and that is dangerous in a situation where they are trying to get the truth from him. Is it really the truth or an attempt to say what she wants him to say? Is it really a confession or an attempt to answer her questions, even if he doesn't really know?


This reminds me a lot of the day care crime that never happened somewhere.... investigators got a complaint of sex abuse at a day care. They brought all the day care kids in and asked them a bunch of leading questions. They got answers that eventually led to all the day operators being accused of everything from sex abuse, to and witchcraft. Yet later the children's accounts were put into question because of the way they were interviewed. It is thought that the alleged crimes never really happened.

Yes... Notice the sentential intonation the boy used when he started talking about himself having a more active role in the shooting. The tone of his statements goes up at the end, more like what is usually heard in a question in English. He says (perhaps not the exact words, sorry): "I had the gun in my hand? It might have gone off?"

I feel like this is how a child would phrase and deliver things if he were trying to "work with" his interrogator.

 

[tapu]

Purely hypothetical... and someone may have suggested this already... but, could the roommate have shot the dad, and then the kid shot him to put him out of his misery, and then the kid shot the roommate? That would be a scenario where they might at this point drop the charge for killing the father.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I think it was suggested by liljim.

suzanne

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
Did the boy see blood on thier shirts that it looked like they were shot in the chest.

suzanne

Evidently not. If the officer at the time saw blood on his back he would have known he may have been shot in the chest. He said the only place that he could see that he was shot was in his head and that he had blood all over his face.

I dont know about Romans, I think he was laying face up but the father's body was face down.

imoo

 

[tapu]

Hmm... I think a head shot is a little unlikely for a kid too....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I thought I remembered that the grandmother was talking to the aunt (possibly the one in Panama, by phone that night) and said she believed or hoped he went quickly and CR said he didn't think so because he had gotten shot in the chest.
I'm only pointing that out because I found even slightly more disturbing that he would offer up that information when he wasn't even being spoken to at the time, it's not like the comment was directed at him and he felt forced to say something and it just came out. That must've really gotten the grandmothers attention if she hadn't found out about the chest wound yet herself....

Yes, it must have really concerned her especially when she told police what he had said.

imoo

 

[tapu]

Hi
I think it was suggested by liljim.

suzanne

Ah. Missed that. Thank you, Suzanne.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hmm... I think a head shot is a little unlikely for a kid too....

Why? Kids that are taught to hunt are told to shoot at the head or heart to make sure the animal doesn't suffer.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Your welcome tapu.

suzanne

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Purely hypothetical... and someone may have suggested this already... but, could the roommate have shot the dad, and then the kid shot him to put him out of his misery, and then the kid shot the roommate? That would be a scenario where they might at this point drop the charge for killing the father.

But wasn't there a much large caliber handgun found on the truck seat outside? Why use a youth rifle that has to be reloaded continuously when a much more powerful gun was available and in plain sight? And why in the world would he shoot his father rather than running out of the house to get help then and not after they are already dead? It is so hard to comprehend that any child could just stand there and shoot his own father in the head. He still would be responsible for killing him if he pumped the last two bullets into his body.

Imo, the DA would not be proceeding with premeditated murder charges concerning Mr. Romans death. If that were the case I think the charges would be greatly reduced. The DA has stated that he planned both of these murders.

It seems by both of their attire they had just gotten off work and VR walked into his home first and Tim stayed outside talking on the phone (which they will have his cell phone records) and when he hung up within a short period of time he was dead too. I am sure they have both ear and eye witnesses. Those who heard the gunshots. Possibly those who saw the boy go inside his home and at what time. Those who may have seen Romans in the truck talking on cell phone or someone who saw VR enter his house.

It will be interesting to learn when TRs call to his wife ended and when the neighbors say they heard the shots.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Quote
But wasn't there a much large caliber handgun found on the truck seat outside?

Who's truck?Romans truck?Why would he just have a gun out on his truck seat?Is this normal up where they lived or was he afraid of someone?

suzanne

 

[tapu]

But wasn't there a much large caliber handgun found on the truck seat outside? Why use a youth rifle that has to be reloaded continuously when a much more powerful gun was available and in plain sight? And why in the world would he shoot his father rather than running out of the house to get help then and not after they are already dead? It is so hard to comprehend that any child could just stand there and shoot his own father in the head. He still would be responsible for killing him if he pumped the last two bullets into his body.

Imo, the DA would not be proceeding with premeditated murder charges concerning Mr. Romans death. If that were the case I think the charges would be greatly reduced. The DA has stated that he planned both of these murders.

It seems by both of their attire they had just gotten off work and VR walked into his home first and Tim stayed outside talking on the phone (which they will have his cell phone records) and when he hung up within a short period of time he was dead too. I am sure they have both ear and eye witnesses. Those who heard the gunshots. Possibly those who saw the boy go inside his home and at what time. Those who may have seen Romans in the truck talking on cell phone or someone who saw VR enter his house.

It will be interesting to learn when TRs call to his wife ended and when the neighbors say they heard the shots.

imoo

All good points, OBE. (As usual.)

 

[Julessleuther]

As a person studying to be a teacher, I can tell you that to put that entire responsibility of teaching our children on a teacher is wrong, IMO. It is a true partnership between parents and teachers, that enable our children to succeed. Many studies have been done, and the best schools in the country are the schools where parents took an ACTIVE role in their childrens education. That is our jobs as parents to help our children learn and succeed in life. I know that I will tell you, having lived in several different states, that AZ has one of the WORSE educational systems in the county, they are actually ranked last for education. Children in this state absolutely need parental advisement, because they just do not get it in school, particularly in the rural areas. Especially if this boy was having trouble in school, he needed to have a parent help him, instead of his parents just relying on the teachers. The boy said on the video that he was always getting in trouble. Was he truly a bad kid, or was he always TOLD he was bad. His mother says he never had problems in school, so which is it? If he was having trouble, then there should have been some intervention, and if there was no intervention, then I consider that neglect.

You have said this all along and that may be a contributing factor.

I did want to say that not all kids need help with their homework. My 6 and 8 year olds do and always have done their homework with little to no help or supervision from me. There is structure in place, but they are left to their own devices. I did homework for 16 years and I'm not doing any more!

That said, children with learning disabilities do benefit from parental assistance with homework.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi
Quote
But wasn't there a much large caliber handgun found on the truck seat outside?

Who's truck?Romans truck?Why would he just have a gun out on his truck seat?Is this normal up where they lived or was he afraid of someone?

suzanne

If people don't have a permit to carry a concealed weapon (like would be needed if carried in the glove compartment etc) then they must leave their weapon in plain sight in case they are stopped by LE.

I am supposing it was on the truck seat. That is where the crime scene photo looked like it was taken from.

I don't even know if Tim had a truck there. He probably traveled to work with Vincent since they worked at the same place. His wife may have picked him up each Friday. I never saw two trucks on the property so I really don't know.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Ok,Thankyou.

suzanne