AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[twinkiesmom]

But, we are getting off topic. Latchkey kids have really nothing to do with this case. If this boy committed these killings than it was not made possible because he was home alone for an hour.

The point in this case is that he was alone for an hour with a loaded weapon while stewing in his juices about the repeated spankings.

When the grandparents commented that he was capable of this, they also referred to the strictness of the household and the anger it produced. They were speaking to the whole situation being a powder keg when they said they expected something like this to happen....using their words to imply their grandson is a sociopath is not a fair and honest representation of their words.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I have to agree. What 8 year old child would be familiar with such a phrase? It definitely is not a word tossed around in a healthy environment of family, for goodness sakes!

You would be amazed how much kids even this boy's age know about a lot of things. Things that we probably didn't know about or care about in our youth.
If there were older kids in the neighborhood with younger brothers and this boy hung out with the brother you can bet he knows a lot more then you might think. Wasn't there an older boy that lived next door who this boy ran too after the murders? Kids watch a lot of TV and I would bet they watch shows that involve kids getting into trouble and being taken to detention. I think all of my kids were aware of detention...kid jail...when they were young.

Heck, now days little kids probably know almost as much as we do about a lot of things including sex. They talk at school and when they are together.
It really is unbelievable but this is a different generation and they grow up to fast and know way to much about life. Twelve year old girls look more like they are 16 or older. Some dress with their underwear hanging out above their pants and the boys jeans droop down to their knees with their underwear shining above their jeans. In my day the boys and girls would have died before they let their underwear hang out of their pants! I'm old and have seen a few generations go by and everyone of them are different.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I don't know where you live, but I can tell you I live in a very nice suburb, and it IS typical for school children to be home before their parents get home from work. Most mothers work, as well as fathers. The parents in my neighborhood do not get home at 3:30 in the afternoon.

I live in a nice suburb in a large custom home, and my school district will not allow children off the bus without a parent if they're not at least 4th grade. I am home every afternoon to meet the bus for my two 6th graders. If I could not meet the bus they would be in afterschool care, which runs through 8th grade. If that was not available, I would hire a home daycare mom in my school district and have my children get off at her stop.

Since your children are grown and gone, why are you offended? What may have appeared safe then is definitely not safe now.

 

[SoobsinMI]

Well, maybe you owe the other "decent" parents in my entire county, since IT IS APPROVED, an apology for saying no decent parent would not leave an 8 yr old home alone for 2-3 hours. This also has a bearing on the St. Johns boy, since VR followed guidelines in his community, i.e. leaving the boy alone. Just because one boy gets into trouble does not make it wrong for everyone else.

Sorry, but I do not live in a ghetto area.

I don't think it's necessarily about kids "getting into trouble" but more about safety issues...at least for me. If there were a fire, or someone broke into our home, I'd feel horrible if my child were left alone. Ideally, someone would be home. But we live in a country where not everyone can have one parent stay home. People have to work. Personally, I still don't leave my nearly 16 year old overnight by himself, because I'm concerned about fire issues.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I read in the transcripts released today (paraphrasing) the judge was sort of chewing out the defense attorney for not obtaining the previous medical records. From what they mentioned he has quite a large file, stated in the court records was a visit from a local hospital, air evac and records from a large hospital in Phoenix. Now of course we don't know what that is, it would be interesting to find out, but I don't think we can assume nothing has happened up until now.
IMHO,
K

I would gather they want the records from birth to now. My guess would be that he was air evaced to a large hospital in Phoenex after he was born as he had problems. I doubt that there will be anything juicy or any big surprises in the records.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I would gather they want the records from birth to now. My guess would be that he was air evaced to a large hospital in Phoenex after he was born as he had problems. I doubt that there will be anything juicy or any big surprises in the records.

I think air evacuation in and of itself is a big surprise and something juicy in the records. He was clearly critically ill and in need of advanced life support.

If oxygen was cut off to his brain for any length of time, you can bet that what we're seeing now is the result of frontal lobe damage.

Our child psychologist recently told me that the increase in children needing special services in school is directly related to advanced lifesaving techniques. My kids have a classmate who survived a brain hemorrhage after being life flighted.

I stand by my theory that this is a special needs child who went undiagnosed.

 

[Bobbisangel]

You are mistaken. Corporal punishment is not sending a child to his room. It is the deliberate infliction of pain on a person to punish them or change their behavior. Spanking, whipping, flogging, paddling, these things are corporal punishment. So would be cutting a person's hand off to punsih them for stealing. Corporal means 'of the body'.
There is evidence that corporal punishment was used on the boy as he made this statement and apparently CPS had some knowledge of his claims. To my knowledge, no one has made the statement that the child was abused but many, including prosecutors, have inferred that he may have been. Time will tell.

When I hear the words corporal punishment I think of somone who is half beaten to death by another person. I don't see anything wrong with giving a child a few swats to get their attention when it is needed. In fact, it is even biblical. There was nothing wrong with Tiffany...in my opinion...giving the boy five swats for not bringing his school work home especially if he had been told time and again and didn't do it. Maybe dad was just fed up with talking and decided the boy needed a few swats as a reminder. Unless Tiffany used a board, switch, or belt on his rear she wouldn't have even hurt him. Especially if she used her hand. It doesn't sound like she left bruises or cuts as he got his swats the night before the murders and I would bet he was checked all over for bruises.

No one outside of some on here have said that the boy was abused. Most people here are wondering about it and some are convinced that he was and speak of it as fact. No one on the outside have made statements about him being abused. I gather they didn't think that the five swats were abusive.

I'll bet there are even people who think that giving a child a time out or taking away privileges or restricting the child is terrible. They probably think that decent parents don't take away a child's belongings or restrict or make them take a time off. To them that is probably corporal punishment I knew a doctor like this. He let his gets cuss when they vented, etc, etc. Believe it or not the four kids all grew up to be great adults. It's beyond me.

 

[twinkiesmom]

When I hear the words corporal punishment I think of somone who is half beaten to death by another person. I don't see anything wrong with giving a child a few swats to get their attention when it is needed. In fact, it is even biblical.

The Bible also admonishes fathers not to provoke their children to anger.

Corporal punishment means spanking. Time outs and losing privileges have nothing to do with it.

By all accounts, this child was excessively disciplined.

 

[tapu]

Actually, once my son got to 3rd grade, he refused to have after school child care. By the way, his friends did, too.

These kids "refused" to have after-school child care...? It is my opinion that that's why they have parents--to overrule that sort of thing.

 

[tehcloser]

Well I guess I am a bad parent. I never let something that was "approved" by some form of county government tell me how to raise my kids. And I NEVER let my kids refuse anything. I think some get so caught up in debate....that common sense goes "whooshhhh" right out the window.

 

[Linda7NJ]

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If you're going to use corporal punishment to the extent it was used in this home, you should expect that your child will be angry. Another reason to secure the weapon. Heated spousal arguments....another reason to secure the weapon.

"to the extent" How do you know the extent?

 

[Trino]

The Bible also admonishes fathers not to provoke their children to anger. Corporal punishment means spanking. Time outs and losing privileges have nothing to do with it. By all accounts, this child was excessively disciplined.

By whose accounts? The child's? The boy is undergoing an evaluation. The grandmother stated the parent was too strict. This does not translate to excessively disciplined.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The Bible also admonishes fathers not to provoke their children to anger.

Corporal punishment means spanking. Time outs and losing privileges have nothing to do with it.

By all accounts, this child was excessively disciplined.

all accounts????

Please provide links to back this up.

 

[MCDRAW]

I live in a nice suburb in a large custom home, and my school district will not allow children off the bus without a parent if they're not at least 4th grade. I am home every afternoon to meet the bus for my two 6th graders. If I could not meet the bus they would be in afterschool care, which runs through 8th grade. If that was not available, I would hire a home daycare mom in my school district and have my children get off at her stop.

Since your children are grown and gone, why are you offended? What may have appeared safe then is definitely not safe now.

Our School system does not have after school care for children over third grade. And the bus driver has no way of knowing whose parent is home and whose isn't. We also have to sign a emergency plan for bad weather, where the school will load up all kids on the bus, k-12 and send them home regardless if a parent is home or not. I always make them mad because I will not sign the paper.

 

[MeoW333]

I think Vincent felt safe there and so did the boy. It was known as a quiet neighborhood. They knew the neighbors. He had friends very close by. They had not had a murder case there in over 20 years until this one.

imoo

While they haven't had murders, they've had a lot of drug overdoses there, evidently. Off Rodriguez thought it was a drug overdose due to the area, initially getting the call.

 

[MCDRAW]

By whose accounts? The child's? The boy is undergoing an evaluation. The grandmother stated the parent was too strict. This does not translate to excessively disciplined.

Just from what I have seen, most grandparents think parents are too strict.

 

[MeoW333]

The point in this case is that he was alone for an hour with a loaded weapon while stewing in his juices about the repeated spankings.

When the grandparents commented that he was capable of this, they also referred to the strictness of the household and the anger it produced. They were speaking to the whole situation being a powder keg when they said they expected something like this to happen....using their words to imply their grandson is a sociopath is not a fair and honest representation of their words.

I agree with the context of what the grandparents were saying. Chief Melnick also had made some sort of comment in the beginning that something had "triggered" the boy to do this. Then they put the gag order in place.

 

[MeoW333]

And, further, twinkiesmom, my younger son who is now 25 just dropped by to say hello. He even brought my husband and I a loaf of bread. I let him read your "decent" post. He said your comment is ridiculous, and you owe me an apology.

Of course he did, he's your son and they have to defend their mothers! :blowkiss:

I don't think Twinkie meant to personally offend you. Her comment; dissected makes sense, as there are certain areas that may be bad areas, where we wouldn't want our children home alone. Then, there may be certain children who we wouldn't want home alone as well; regardless of the area lived in. Everyone can't agree on everything..

 

[MeoW333]

Just from what I have seen, most grandparents think parents are too strict.

If it were just a case of "being to strict" i don't think the grandmother would have spouted it out at all. It seems something she said in an very emotional state of mind.
If they were just being to strict, she probably wouldn't have said it. There's more we're not privy to.

 

[twinkiesmom]

all accounts????

Please provide links to back this up.

The grandparent's account supports the child's account.