AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[oceanblueeyes]

You all are correct, there is a 'gag order' on this case. Interesting that they managed to get out the 'bogus confession' tape first though.

I don't know that they are investigating all of the extenuating circumstances regarding this case. They were too quick to jump on the bogus confession and declare the case solved,.........until they released the alleged confession and were criticized from here to forever for the way they conducted it. It wasn't until they released the alleged confession tape that they most likely found out the alleged confession to the father's murder is DEFINITELY illegal and will NEVER stand up in court, which is why they dropped the charges. IF ballistics comes back it's all one gun AND the boy's gun that killed the two men, I look for them to then refile charges for the Dad.

But I'm still NOT convinced the boy shot either one of the victims. He gave his story and the officer didn't believe him and convinced him to change it, then change it again,..........until he said something she WANTED to believe.

No, these officers weren't looking to pin it on an 8 yo. On the other hand, imagine the kudos they got from their fellow officers that they were able to solve this case so quickly?

Nope, I'm not convinced at ALL that this confession is true. To be honest, I'm leaning more towards it's completely bogus and I believe ballistics will prove it.

I'm still waiting for a good civil rights attorney to step in and stick up for this child. Because he is so young, they have completely thrown his Constitutional Rights out the window. Someone needs to protect this child.

JMHO
fran

I believe Wood and Brewer are very capable of protecting their client.

Just because we do not know doesn't mean there hasn't been an extensive investigation and many interviews and re interviews done and still continuing to be done.

I do not agree as to why they put in a motion to dismiss Count One. This case is highly unusual with two glaring factors. 1. The juvenile suspect's young age. 2. The heinous premeditated murders of two victims, not one but two. In the juvenile system the maximum time that can be given, no matter how many crimes the perpetrator committed, is until the juvenile reaches the age of 18. This leaves no justice rendered for the second murder victim. It becomes a two for one. The DA himself stressed those facts and the juvenile system is not equipped to handle cases like this one.

I do agree that there will be other evidence and that the ballistics and all other forensic testing will show the story. I also believe the boy's confession will not be needed. They can call other witnesses that spoke with the boy and they can testify to what he told them. Such as family, friends and caseworkers, etc. Thank goodness the Judge will make his decision before the bulk of evidence is returned and when the age competency matter is done and if he rules he is age incompetent, then the DA will not be required to turnover any of the evidence he has uncovered, after that time and giving the defense team a heads up on a case, that may not even happen at this time but it will be at a stand still in the Courts for at least 8 months where no discovery has to be given by either side.

We have seen confessions suppressed before yet the trial goes on and evidence is entered. Even John Couey's confession was tossed yet the evidence spoke for itself. Having a confession suppressed does not negate the defendant from having a trial and being held accountable. Only that the confession can't be shown to the Judge, in this case at trial. (Who btw, knows the confession tape inside and out already)

However, I think what will happen On December 22 is he will most likely be deemed age incompetent to assist in his trial legalese and he will be reassessed in 8 months when he is closer to 10. He will probably be allowed to go home with his mother and I sincerely hope that she tells the court that she already has set up a therapist for him to see. I don't think the court has any power to make him get counseling, so it would be up to her and her responsibility.

These officers and the DA would love to place the blame on an adult. They would ask for the death penalty if the perpetrator was an adult imo but they must go where the case leads them no matter the age of the suspect.

imoo

 

[fran]

I hope you're right and this child is allowed to go home with his mom while they CONTINUE to investigate this case. Although they THINK they solved the case, I don't necessarily believe they have.

Too coincidental, IMHO, that there were 10 shots fired and many 22 handguns carry 10 rounds. I still believe this case will turn out very differently than it looks like today. I could be wrong though.

JMHO, of course,
fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I hope you're right and this child is allowed to go home with his mom while they CONTINUE to investigate this case. Although they THINK they solved the case, I don't necessarily believe they have.

Too coincidental, IMHO, that there were 10 shots fired and many 22 handguns carry 10 rounds. I still believe this case will turn out very differently than it looks like today. I could be wrong though.

JMHO, of course,
fran

There was also a live bullet in the youth model rifle when found. So he loaded it 11 times but after 10 times, he knew they were both dead as they were going to get.

imo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

There was a different looking casing near Tim Romans body.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I think that is huge.

How is this huge? The wife must have a tight alibi or LE would be looking at her. She probably worked that day and then did some shopping afterwards.

From what I remember she sent a fax to a co-worker and said that she wished she had said "sorry" to her husband about the fight that they had the night before he died. Couples fight all of the time and if the fight isn't patched up there is always regret if something happens to either of them.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I'm surprised at the angle this case has taken since the beginning. If we had reversed the roles, and the boy's mother and a friend were murdered, then we would look at the step father.
I don't see much effort by LE into looking into Tiffany's background. It's standard procedure to check out spouses when one is murdered. They moved to the boy almost immediately, and pretty much ignored the other leads (aside from halfA$$ed questioning that may have been done with some of TR and Mr. Roman's co-workers as well).

We have no idea what LE is doing on this case or who they have interviewed or looked at. There is a gag order and no new info is coming out. Besides, no LE gives a blow by blow account to the public on every move they make. All we can do is guess at what is going on but we have no way of knowing what LE is doing or who they have checked out so far.

 

[twinkiesmom]

This case is on Dr. Phil right now.

Nancy Grace was a guest as well as an attorney who defends child clients and a psychologist....Nancy was recommending conviction in juvenile court plus probation and therapy...the other two were advocating no trial, just therapy.

From show....Risk factors for children who kill their parents:

Abuse
Abandonment issues
Isolated/neglected
Anxiety/depression or other mental health problems
Availability of guns
Failed to receive help
Academic performance issues
Suicidal
Parents are substance abusers

http://drphil.com/articles/article/584

 

[Trino]

However, I think what will happen On December 22 is he will most likely be deemed age incompetent to assist in his trial legalese and he will be reassessed in 8 months when he is closer to 10. He will probably be allowed to go home with his mother and I sincerely hope that she tells the court that she already has set up a therapist for him to see. I don't think the court has any power to make him get counseling, so it would be up to her and her responsibility.imoo

It's would be very frightening if he were allowed to go home with his mother, and she had sole responsibility for theraphy. I doubt her finances could afford this, and who's to say the quality of theraphy she would get for the boy. Would the court allow her to take him out of state, since she lives in Mississippi?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hopefully the court would help with all that or know what to do.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

It's would be very frightening if he were allowed to go home with his mother, and she had sole responsibility for theraphy. I doubt her finances could afford this, and who's to say the quality of theraphy she would get for the boy. Would the court allow her to take him out of state, since she lives in Mississippi?

I do not see how it would be "frightening" if he were allowed to go home. As far as her responsibility in regards to therapy, I have no doubt that she would, at the recommendation of Court and lawyer, that she would do the right thing for this child. We have absolutely no idea what her financial situation she is in now nor what possible insurance she may have to cover such therapy. I doubt, very much, that the cost is the last thing on her mind. As far as leaving the state, I would doubt the Court would allow that, but you never know.

imho

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's would be very frightening if he were allowed to go home with his mother, and she had sole responsibility for therapy. I doubt her finances could afford this, and who's to say the quality of therapy she would get for the boy. Would the court allow her to take him out of state, since she lives in Mississippi?

I remember the ADA mentioning that in one of his motions. I believe if it ends in an age incompetency ruling the Judge has no legal power over the juvenile. That is why the ADA is concerned because he said civil commitment is highly unlikely. The only way that could happen is if he was mentally incompetent with a sufficient disorder or defect. I do not believe he has any mental issues other than he is too young to understand the court legalese.

So if it does end in this I don't think they can tell him anything about whom he must see or not see. You are correct, therapists are quite expensive.

Judges can rule that the defendant is to have mental therapy if the defendant has been convicted and is under the rule of the court.

imoo

 

[Chargergal]

I do not see how it would be "frightening" if he were allowed to go home. As far as her responsibility in regards to therapy, I have no doubt that she would, at the recommendation of Court and lawyer, that she would do the right thing for this child. We have absolutely no idea what her financial situation she is in now nor what possible insurance she may have to cover such therapy. I doubt, very much, that the cost is the last thing on her mind. As far as leaving the state, I would doubt the Court would allow that, but you never know.

imho

I'm sure there would be therapists all over this that would be providing their services for free for the research. There was a case here in Phoenix last week and two boys I think ages 6 & 7 hung a kitten and the sheriff department decided not to press any charges due to their age. The next day the department of psychology at ASU volunteered to provide therapy for both boys (with parent approval) as part of their research. Also, most likely since VR is deceased and mom has sole legal custody, he eligible for state assistance AHCCCS and there are a number of qualified pediatric therapists that would get paid to provide their services.

 

[Trino]

I remember the ADA mentioning that in one of his motions. I believe if it ends in an age incompetency ruling the Judge has no legal power over the juvenile. That is why the ADA is concerned because he said civil commitment is highly unlikely. The only way that could happen is if he was mentally incompetent with a sufficient disorder or defect. I do not believe he has any mental issues other than he is too young to understand the court legalese. imoo

I think the boy has competency issues, and the court will try to keep him in detention.

I just don't know that letting him out, even moving him around AZ would be a solution because he and the mother are easily physically recognized. Where would he go to school? How would neighbors interact with him and his mother? There are issues other than therapy.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I think there are new documents on the website now.

 

[Salem]

I think there are new documents on the website now.

Do you have the link suzanne?

TIA,

Salem

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think the boy has competency issues, and the court will try to keep him in detention.

I just don't know that letting him out, even moving him around AZ would be a solution because he and the mother are easily physically recognized. Where would he go to school? How would neighbors interact with him and his mother? There are issues other than therapy.

Oh I think he has issues too. I just don't think they rise to the legal standards that would be required for a civil commitment.

The judicial standard and the mental definition in the medical community is not the same. A defendant can be a sociopath or psychopath and still not be legally criminally insane nor can be forced to seek treatment.

I do agree with you though, there are others things that are at issue here.

It is strange though that the boy's attorney is trying to make sure the evaluation that is going to be done and already done is not for public consumption. I wonder why he doesn't want his evaluations revealed. It seems he would want it out there if it was more sympathetic to the boy.

imo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I think this is it.I will keep looking.

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/

 

[T-Rex]

Would they commit him to a mental health facility, on the basis of him being a danger to himself and others?

 

[twinkiesmom]

It is strange though that the boy's attorney is trying to make sure the evaluation that is going to be done and already done is not for public consumption. I wonder why he doesn't want his evaluations revealed. It seems he would want it out there if it was more sympathetic to the boy.
imo

Maybe he wants to control public opinion at the time of trial?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Maybe he wants to control public opinion at the time of trial?

I really don't know. He is not shy about using the media when it behooves him, he thinks. He released the 100 pages of the interviews with the first two officers on the scene to the media.

imoo