AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[MeoW333]

I think the boy has competency issues, and the court will try to keep him in detention.

I just don't know that letting him out, even moving him around AZ would be a solution because he and the mother are easily physically recognized. Where would he go to school? How would neighbors interact with him and his mother? There are issues other than therapy.

I would think neighbors would interact like they were just regular folks. After all, they are human.
The boy needs a loving authoritarian father figure in his life, that can point him in the right direction, that way it will insure he doesn't turn out like Dexter..

 

[azmama]

As far as how the kid knew about juvie... maybe he asked someone, "what happens to kids that kill someone?" ....they go to juvie... If he did we will hear of it if there is a trial.

Perhaps he knew about "Juvie" because he drives by it everyday, or it is next to the post office, the supermarket, etc. Let's not forget St. Johns, AZ is a population of less than 4,000. It is a fairly new building from what I have read.

I just wanted to share, yesterday I was walking in a store with my daughter, she is 5 years old and she was talking about kids getting in trouble for being bad (at school etc) and she said something to the effect of "if you are really bad, you go to juvie"..... I asked her what that was and she said "duh, jail for kids", she said she heard it from a show in tv, a cartoon! (she was watching with my older kids).

It doesn't seem far fetched that he would know what that was.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I really don't know. He is not shy about using the media when it behooves him, he thinks. He released the 100 pages of the interviews with the first two officers on the scene to the media.

imoo

And it worked in showing the public that this was an illegal interrogation, a keystone cops investigation, and the child acted/sounded like a small child...it goes against trying him as an adult when you see him sitting there with his feet swinging unable to touch the floor.

My guess is he would not release the mental health evaluation because they will not uncover enough mental illness to make the child sympathetic. If they came up with evidence of abuse, they will save it for trial.

Mary Winkler's lawyers kept the high heeled show for trial...just saying...

 

[SoobsinMI]

I really don't know. He is not shy about using the media when it behooves him, he thinks. He released the 100 pages of the interviews with the first two officers on the scene to the media.

imoo

I thought the court released the information, not the lawyer. I understand why the mental health eval won't be disseminated...there is federal law that covers mental health that is MUCH more stringent than that which covers physical health. I don't think he cares one whit about public opinion, truly, as the case will be heard by a judge, not a jury. Besides, I'm astonished that we've gotten ANY information on this case from the court....as it's still a JUVENILE proceeding.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I would think neighbors would interact like they were just regular folks. After all, they are human.
The boy needs a loving authoritarian father figure in his life, that can point him in the right direction, that way it will insure he doesn't turn out like Dexter..

Sorry, if that kid moved next to me and my family...I would be VERY unhappy! I have a son and I certainly wouldn't want that child anywhere near mine.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I thought the court released the information, not the lawyer. I understand why the mental health eval won't be disseminated...there is federal law that covers mental health that is MUCH more stringent than that which covers physical health. I don't think he cares one whit about public opinion, truly, as the case will be heard by a judge, not a jury. Besides, I'm astonished that we've gotten ANY information on this case from the court....as it's still a JUVENILE proceeding.

Aren't most judges elected? Even if this one is not, his rulings in this case will affect public opinion about him, and his approval rating will be affected by this case one way or another.

I'm sure some of the drama goes out for a bench trial, but I could still see reasons why a defense lawyer would want maximum impact from evidence coming out at trial rather than months beforehand.

 

[Trino]

Sorry, if that kid moved next to me and my family...I would be VERY unhappy! I have a son and I certainly wouldn't want that child anywhere near mine.

I completely agree. I would not want the boy living in my neighborhood, although, of course, most of us do not have criminal info about our neighbors. I constantly think about the fact that the father, VR, had no warning that this would happen. The boy is undergoing evaluations, so we don't know what his problems are or what he might be capable of in the future. A strong authoritarian figure or the love of a father and a mother do not cure mental illness, if this is the case.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I do feel Judge Roca will be a very fair Judge.

 

[colette]

And it worked in showing the public that this was an illegal interrogation...... Sniped

You may disagree with the methods but the police interview/interrogation was not illegal as far as I can see.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And it worked in showing the public that this was an illegal interrogation, a keystone cops investigation, and the child acted/sounded like a small child...it goes against trying him as an adult when you see him sitting there with his feet swinging unable to touch the floor.

My guess is he would not release the mental health evaluation because they will not uncover enough mental illness to make the child sympathetic. If they came up with evidence of abuse, they will save it for trial.

Mary Winkler's lawyers kept the high heeled show for trial...just saying...

He didn't release the video of the boy's confession. That came from the State Attorney's office.

They didn't even come up with the shoe in Winkler's trial until right before the trial. They "supposedly" went back after over a year and found the shoe in the home and the police, who was there did not see it or see the defense and Mary carrying it out. That is why it was entered as an exhibit only because it had no chain of custody. It just appeared.

I don't think these evaluators would mention abuse. They are to determine if he is age and mental competency to stand trial.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Aren't most judges elected? Even if this one is not, his rulings in this case will affect public opinion about him, and his approval rating will be affected by this case one way or another.

I'm sure some of the drama goes out for a bench trial, but I could still see reasons why a defense lawyer would want maximum impact from evidence coming out at trial rather than months beforehand.

I have never seen many Judges that care a whit about where they are elected or not. They go strictly by the law and are not in the business of pleasing people.

imoo

 

[Bobbisangel]

I completely agree. I would not want the boy living in my neighborhood, although, of course, most of us do not have criminal info about our neighbors. I constantly think about the fact that the father, VR, had no warning that this would happen. The boy is undergoing evaluations, so we don't know what his problems are or what he might be capable of in the future. A strong authoritarian figure or the love of a father and a mother do not cure mental illness, if this is the case.

I wouldn't want him living next to me or in my neighborhood either. This boy could just have a huge problem with anger control which turns into uncontrolable rage when he gets upset about something. Sounds like that is what happened with the spankings over his home work. Maybe that anger just builds up and builds up until he can't control it any longer.

Before the court allows this boy to go home with anyone I hope they have figured out his problems and that they see that he is into therapy before he leaves the custody of the courts. He has to get into some long term therapy. Things can't have gone this far...the killings...and this boy get no therapy.
I wonder if his mother realizes that this boy needs help or does she just blame the whole thing on the dad and figures if the dad is out of his life everything will be just fine.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I thought the court released the information, not the lawyer. I understand why the mental health eval won't be disseminated...there is federal law that covers mental health that is MUCH more stringent than that which covers physical health. I don't think he cares one whit about public opinion, truly, as the case will be heard by a judge, not a jury. Besides, I'm astonished that we've gotten ANY information on this case from the court....as it's still a JUVENILE proceeding.

No, Soobs. The defense attorney said he did. This was his work product not the DAs. He was the interviewer.

Right, he isn't worried about tainting the jury pool. This is tried before one Judge only. Brewer did however put in a motion for a jury trial which was denied. IMO, he did this because he knows all too well Judges aren't emotional about cases and go strictly by the law and the evidence. Any Judge that has been on the bench long has long removed any emotions they may have had and are much harder on everyone, including the defense attorneys and the prosecutors. They will not be able to banter about in the courtroom like we see in jury trials. He will tell both of them to quickly move on and remind them they aren't in front of a jury.

Usually Judges who preside over cases solely are no nonsense Judges.

imoo

 

[Salem]

I think this is it.I will keep looking.

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/

Thank you Suzanne :blowkiss:

Salem

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Thank you Suzanne :blowkiss:

Salem

Your welcome.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

There are so many other possibilities of what could have happened. Since there is a ~quiet~ time and a gag order in place, I wonder if we could just toss out some other theories.

I wonder about the white car missing two rims (hubcaps, depends where you live what you call them. ) that this little guy described to LE. WHat if there were others at the home before anyone else was?

How about that the victim's wife (Romero) was not at work, but at Wilbur's(on store video) and NAPA. Not home when she normally would be when not working and when little guy got home from school. Or even Roman's behaviour. Example, past drug dealing history, an affair and asking another woman to marry him, and a history of "fights" outside the workplace.

I'm just tossing out there thoughts. Other possibles regarding this case. I think something is truly missing from this story. Call it a huge hinky, but I have one and I think it would be good to take it out of a box and explore a little more.

 

[Trino]

There are so many other possibilities of what could have happened. Since there is a ~quiet~ time and a gag order in place, I wonder if we could just toss out some other theories.

I wonder about the white car missing two rims (hubcaps, depends where you live what you call them. ) that this little guy described to LE. WHat if there were others at the home before anyone else was?

How about that the victim's wife (Romero) was not at work, but at Wilbur's(on store video) and NAPA. Not home when she normally would be when not working and when little guy got home from school. Or even Roman's behaviour. Example, past drug dealing history, an affair and asking another woman to marry him, and a history of "fights" outside the workplace.

I'm just tossing out there thoughts. Other possibles regarding this case. I think something is truly missing from this story. Call it a huge hinky, but I have one and I think it would be good to take it out of a box and explore a little more.

I believe most of this has been discussed, and I, for one, do not think it's proper to bring people into the discussion who are most likely not involved. The current belief by the judge, as well as both attorneys, is that the boy did this. Yes. They are awaiting evidence, but they must have very good reasons to hold the boy and to have him undergoing evaluations. And, they must have very good reasons not to go into other possibilities.

 

[Chargergal]

As far as how the kid knew about juvie... maybe he asked someone, "what happens to kids that kill someone?" ....they go to juvie... If he did we will hear of it if there is a trial.

Perhaps he knew about "Juvie" because he drives by it everyday, or it is next to the post office, the supermarket, etc. Let's not forget St. Johns, AZ is a population of less than 4,000. It is a fairly new building from what I have read.

I just wanted to share, yesterday I was walking in a store with my daughter, she is 5 years old and she was talking about kids getting in trouble for being bad (at school etc) and she said something to the effect of "if you are really bad, you go to juvie"..... I asked her what that was and she said "duh, jail for kids", she said she heard it from a show in tv, a cartoon! (she was watching with my older kids).

It doesn't seem far fetched that he would know what that was.

My 8 year old son was watching I-Carly on TV the other night and they were talking about juvie, he also said our neighbor boy who is 10 told him about it as well.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I believe most of this has been discussed, and I, for one, do not think it's proper to bring people into the discussion who are most likely not involved. The current belief by the judge, as well as both attorneys, is that the boy did this. Yes. They are awaiting evidence, but they must have very good reasons to hold the boy and to have him undergoing evaluations. And, they must have very good reasons not to go into other possibilities.

There are questions that are still out there. With a gag order, LE or anyone else, cannot divulge information. What we have given to us is so little concerning this case to discuss. Since there is nothing literally concrete in this case, it is open for more discussion of possibilities. After all, that is what we all do here, isn't it?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe most of this has been discussed, and I, for one, do not think it's proper to bring people into the discussion who are most likely not involved. The current belief by the judge, as well as both attorneys, is that the boy did this. Yes. They are awaiting evidence, but they must have very good reasons to hold the boy and to have him undergoing evaluations. And, they must have very good reasons not to go into other possibilities.

I agree. I think it is highly unfair to say someone else is responsible or infer they are involved, when we have absolutely nothing to base it on. The DA and the defense is waiting on the forensic evidence. Until then, we are really at a stand still but imo this boy has been held for over a month and the DA wouldn't arrest him if they didn't think they had the evidence to prove their case. We don't know what all they have uncovered to date bolstering that position due to the gag order being in place.

I did read somewhere today that LE did look at other possible suspects but it kept coming back to the boy.

If they deem him age incompetent then I highly doubt any of the evidence learned will be revealed at this time.

imoo