AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[colette]

twinkiesmom, the 22 is a very small bullet. It will not make the big blow back as a large cal bullet or shotgun shells.

 

[Chargergal]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Neckel.pdf

Please read the entire report before making judgment.

Thank you for the link. I don't recall seeing that so I would like to re-read it. I'm not making judgment. To clarify my opinion, I think the child did pull the trigger...unfortunately...but why and who else is involved. There is way more to this story than any of us will ever know...my heart is broken for all the victims in this family...including the boy.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

twinkiesmom, the 22 is a very small bullet. It will not make the big blow back as a large cal bullet or shotgun shells.

That is true. Also the boy was wearing dark clothing. What may have not been seen by the naked eye at the time can be quite different in what can be seen under forensic testing. They can tell a lot by the blood pattern on his clothing. We already know there was one spot that could be seen.

Also he has been accused of doing these crimes with a rifle which has a much longer barrel than a handgun. It would put his body further away from the victims when firing.

The best chance forensic examiners have imo is the close range shot done to both men where there was brain matter present. If he was standing close to them then there may be blowback from those two shots. It may be a fine mist and even landing on his shoes. It is hard to see with the naked eye and the officers said his tennies were dirty. The forensic examiners will also check those.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Neckel.pdf

Please read the entire report before making judgment.

Thank you for the link. I don't recall seeing that so I would like to re-read it. I'm not making judgment. To clarify my opinion, I think the child did pull the trigger...unfortunately...but why and who else is involved. There is way more to this story than any of us will ever know...my heart is broken for all the victims in this family...including the boy.

Mine is too.

 

[Chargergal]

Not sure if anyone else caught this but I noticed on the court calendar that is indicates the boy is no longer in custody. All the previous times I looked at this the "custody" status was checked.
Here's the link
http://www.apacheclerk.net/PDFs/current_month.pdf

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not sure if anyone else caught this but I noticed on the court calendar that is indicates the boy is no longer in custody. All the previous times I looked at this the "custody" status was checked.
Here's the link
http://www.apacheclerk.net/PDFs/current_month.pdf

Isn't he supposed to go out of town for the evaluation? If so he wouldn't be in the juvenile detention center.

I thought in the hearing he was to be transported to the Doctor.

Here is a link that says evaluation got put off until tomorrow. The detention center is transporting him to the doctor and Judge Roca in one of the hearings said he would be staying overnight.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2008/12/18/20081218stjohns1218.html

 

[Chargergal]

Isn't he supposed to go out of town for the evaluation? If so he wouldn't be in the juvenile detention center.

I thought in the hearing he was to be transported to the Doctor.

Here is a link that says evaluation got put off until tomorrow. The detention center is transporting him to the doctor and Judge Roca in one of the hearings said he would be staying overnight.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2008/12/18/20081218stjohns1218.html

I would think that if he was being transported by the detention center he would still be in custody. Maybe just hopeful thinking that he is not in juvie right now.

 

[azmama]

I would think that if he was being transported by the detention center he would still be in custody. Maybe just hopeful thinking that he is not in juvie right now.

I don't know about juveniles, but for adults in the system here, they are shown in custody even if in transport. I do think that is interesting.

I am really concerned about the 45 day rule....I wonder if someone stepped up for him?

 

[Chargergal]

I don't know about juveniles, but for adults in the system here, they are shown in custody even if in transport. I do think that is interesting.

I am really concerned about the 45 day rule....I wonder if someone stepped up for him?

I just checked with my husband (former AZ Pinal County Sheriff) and he said the same thing during transport they are "in custody".

 

[azmama]

I can't believe what a difference it makes with a gag order on everything...I guess probably also because of the small town, it may be easier to contain.
Here in Phoenix, there would be leaks everywhere, not knowing anything is driving me insane!

I feel so badly for him:-(

 

[mostlylurking]

Not sure if anyone else caught this but I noticed on the court calendar that is indicates the boy is no longer in custody. All the previous times I looked at this the "custody" status was checked.
Here's the link
http://www.apacheclerk.net/PDFs/current_month.pdf

Well, there were three sealed filings posted on the AZ site back on the 16th. In the previous status hearing, the judge, iirc, said that furlow issues would have to be sealed when the defense filed & that the state would have to respond that way, too. Maybe the boy has been released and it is not public knowledge.

 

[Trino]

Well, there were three sealed filings posted on the AZ site back on the 16th. In the previous status hearing, the judge, iirc, said that furlow issues would have to be sealed when the defense filed & that the state would have to respond that way, too. Maybe the boy has been released and it is not public knowledge.

It's very possible the boy was furloughed until after Christmas. It hard not knowing anything.

 

[chicagofa13]

Why in the world will it take til the end of January to interview everyone that they need to interview? Is this police department slow or what! There has to have been something that led them to believe that this boy was the shooter.
I wish we knew what that was. I don't believe that Tim's wife made up the story of her husband going to see what the boy wanted and seconds later her husband was dead. I can't imagine her making the story up. It probably wouldn't have crossed her mind that the boy was the shooter if she hadn't heard the exchange between Tim and the boy. She most likely would have thought an adult was the shooter. I know I would have. The boy would never have entered my mind as the shooter.

Because of the gag order there are probably so many things that we are unaware of. I wish they would lift that darn thing so we know what is going on.

ITA!! I would think ADULT first, always!!

It's very possible the boy was furloughed until after Christmas. It hard not knowing anything.

I don't think it sets a good example allowing him out at all. I know, kids probably aren't following this case, but commit a crime and spend the holidays at home? Not good.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

ITA!! I would think ADULT first, always!!



I don't think it sets a good example allowing him out at all. I know, kids probably aren't following this case, but commit a crime and spend the holidays at home? Not good.

Kids know more than we think. Just like it has become common for them to know about juvey. It sends a terrible message to juveniles, that if they are young enough they can just kill as many people as they want to without being held accountable and can even be rewarded for their bad behavior.

Now I find this also disconcerting. Brewer seems to not be searching for the truth but trying to suppress it.

Why in the world would he want to suppress the search warrant and evidence collected if he felt this boy is innocent? What is he afraid of? The truth?

http://ktar.com/?sid=1013339&nid=416

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/132947

He is beginning to sound like a typical defense attorney that files motions to suppress any evidence they know will hurt their client.

imoo

 

[SoobsinMI]

Kids know more than we think. Just like it has become common for them to know about juvey. It sends a terrible message to juveniles, that if they are young enough they can just kill as many people as they want to without being held accountable and can even be rewarded for their bad behavior.

Now I find this also disconcerting. Brewer seems to not be searching for the truth but trying to suppress it.

Why in the world would he want to suppress the search warrant and evidence collected if he felt this boy is innocent? What is he afraid of? The truth?

http://ktar.com/?sid=1013339&nid=416

He is beginning to sound like a typical defense attorney that files motions to suppress any evidence they know will hurt their client.

imoo

I don't think the supression of the "confession" is in contrast to "searching for the truth." Legally, I believe it is "ill-gotten gains" and I also believe it's hardly "the truth." JMO, of course. But I'm unsure why this is disconcerting for you. Obviously, if he wasn't advised of his rights, it's an illegal confession. Those are thrown out for adults, why not for the child?

I also don't see in the article, where he's asking for the evidence from the search to be thrown out.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think the suppression of the "confession" is in contrast to "searching for the truth." Legally, I believe it is "ill-gotten gains" and I also believe it's hardly "the truth." JMO, of course. But I'm unsure why this is disconcerting for you. Obviously, if he wasn't advised of his rights, it's an illegal confession. Those are thrown out for adults, why not for the child?

I also don't see in the article, where he's asking for the evidence from the search to be thrown out.

I understand him wanting to suppress the confession but I do not understand if he wants the truth to be told why he wants to suppress the search warrant signed by a Judge and the evidence collected from the scene.

That has shades of the past with so many other defense attorneys who was trying to suppress what they knew would hurt their client.

Maybe I pulled the wrong link, I will go read it again but yes he says he is going to try to suppress the search warrant and evidence. That means he wants to hide the evidence.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think the supression of the "confession" is in contrast to "searching for the truth." Legally, I believe it is "ill-gotten gains" and I also believe it's hardly "the truth." JMO, of course. But I'm unsure why this is disconcerting for you. Obviously, if he wasn't advised of his rights, it's an illegal confession. Those are thrown out for adults, why not for the child?

I also don't see in the article, where he's asking for the evidence from the search to be thrown out.

Sorry, Soobs.

Here is one that mentions the search warrant.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/132947

 

[SoobsinMI]

Sorry, Soobs.

Here is one that mentions the search warrant.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/132947

Ah, thanks, Ocean. From the link:

He also said there were significant problems in how the search warrant was obtained but did not elaborate.

I'm not sure what "significant problems" there are, but I understand your concern.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ah, thanks, Ocean. From the link:

I'm not sure what "significant problems" there are, but I understand your concern.

This is really very typical. This search warrant was signed by Judge Gunnels iirc, so I really think Brewer will lose on this issue but of course like all defense attorneys he will have a go at it and file the motion. If he thinks this case is going forward and for some reason, I tend to think he does think that, then he will start putting in more and more motions in the coming days or weeks.

I remember how many Mark Garegos filed on the SP case and Steve Farese in the Winkler case. SF even put in double motions to suppress Winklers statements to police. The Judge denied them but I had never seen two motions on the same issue before.

imo

 

[fran]

Ah, thanks, Ocean. From the link:

I'm not sure what "significant problems" there are, but I understand your concern.

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the 'significant problems' with the 'search warrants' goes back to the alleged confession. The boy was NOT advised of his Rights. period. IMO, that's why they dropped the charges of the father and just kept the charge for Tim. The moment they heard him say 'he might have..' shot Tim (or whatever the words), they were absolutely obligated to STOP right there and not ask him anything else.

The officers CLAIM the child was being questioned as a 'victim/witness,' yet once the the child allegedly admitted to shooting Tim, he was absolutely taken out of the criteria as a 'victim/witness,' and placed into the 'suspect,' category. As there was nothing else that indicated the child was the shooter, no forensics, NOTHING, the alleged confession was the only 'evidence' they had.

The problem with even the first part of the confession, for Tim, is suspect as well and will need to be ruled on IF it was even lawful,... LE admitted they were aware that the child had a 'bio mother,' yet they did not even attempt to contact her for permission to question the boy. Permission to question the boy was given by the step-mom and grandparents. This may be a fatal error in the eyes of the law, with regard to being able to use the alleged confession at all.

Then you have the search warrants. There was not ONE piece of evidence at the scene to indicate this child was anything more than a 'victim/witness.' Yet once the child allegedly confessed, there were, I believe, search warrants obtained as a result of the alleged confession. IF the alleged confession is thrown out, any evidence they obtained as a result of the alleged confession, will most likely be thrown out as well.

This case is NOT over and the guilt of this child is not written in stone. It's a good thing LE 'claims' they're still investigating this case, because I for one, am not certain they have their perp. There's too many variable, which many people just ignore (imo), that COULD ALSO be 'motive' for murder and they do NOT involve this child, IMHO. I believe there are other POI that should be looked into,........BOTH wives, people at the bar, people at work,..........and on and on...........WHY didn't they put out a description of the car that first night? There's soooo many questions to be answered.

I saw this on GMA this morning. I for one am happy to hear the child is spending the Holidays with his mom. I know most won't agree, but for now, I think that's the best place for him until the legal community can get their act together.

JMHO
fran

PS........oh, yeah, FWIW, that alleged list the child was to have been making, keeping track of the 'swats' imposed on him by his dad.........LE has NOT been able to locate that. Wonder who told LE he even had such a list? It couldn't be one of the NOT POI could it? fran