AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[SoobsinMI]

PS........oh, yeah, FWIW, that alleged list the child was to have been making, keeping track of the 'swats' imposed on him by his dad.........LE has NOT been able to locate that. Wonder who told LE he even had such a list? It couldn't be one of the NOT POI could it? fran

Fran, it's my understanding that the child himself, told someone from CPS, after the murders, that he made the list. He could have lied, and that's why it hasn't been found.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Fran, it's my understanding that the child himself, told someone from CPS, after the murders, that he made the list. He could have lied, and that's why it hasn't been found.

They could never find this list?

 

[SoobsinMI]

They could never find this list?

I don't know. I'm just going by what Fran posted.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I don't know. I'm just going by what Fran posted.

Oh,ok.Thankyou.Well this little boy and the victims are still in my prayers.I'm still following this story.

 

[Chargergal]

I saw this on GMA this morning. I for one am happy to hear the child is spending the Holidays with his mom. I know most won't agree, but for now, I think that's the best place for him until the legal community can get their act together.

JMHO
fran
I cried (tears of joy/relief) in my car this morning when I heard he was back in St. Johns and will be with his mother until after his birthday.

I also read the interview per Trino's suggestion and found more in there to cause me to doubt his involvement or at least alone in it.
The car that Amos drives - local guy in town who had a problem with Tim and/or VR drvies a small white truck...Tim's wife retaining an attorney and spoke person immediately and during the INITIAL inteview with police wanted to know the names of the video games he plays with...can you saw lawsuit? As soon as the DPS told her that Tim was having an affair she terminated the interview. Another note, the three mexican nationals that Tim and Vince had an altercation in the bar with a few days prior...

Another note, the child asked for his personal belonging to be returned from the house, a special wallet from his father, bedroom furniture, snow board and his dog, Nellie. The one Tiffany is photographed with. This only supports the defense that he is in no way mature enough to comprehend the situation.

 

[fran]

Unfortunately, there are no actual transcripts of GMA, but Chris Cuomo did state, TWICE, that LE has NOT been able to locate the 'alleged' list.

I heard him mention LE did not have the list at the beginning of the segment, I thought I either heard incorrectly, or he may have misspoke. But at the very end of the segment, he again said "LE has NOT been able to locate this list."

So........where did LE get the idea there was an 'actual list?'
IS the 'list' part of their alleged 'evidence?'
How can they be sure there is a list?
Isn't LE using the 'evidence' of the list as {proof} that this was premeditated by this child?
The boy's story changed every time they questioned him. Which story do you believe?
During the court hearings, LE personnel present that day told of how this crime adversly effected them (experieced LE, who've seen dead persons before). What if this child did come upon the scene as he first stated? Doesn't anyone think that an 8 yo child could be traumatized coming upon such a scene? Especially since one of the victims is his own father?

I just don't get at all their treatment of this child. Actually, I'm appalled. But, that's just me, I guess. Is this how we treat our child victims?

IMO, IF this child told the truth at first, which LE seemed to indicate they didn't believe him, so he kept changing his story until they finally decided they'd accept a version. What if he's suffering from delayed stress?

How could the grandmother see how this child could have done this based on him cuddling and crying to her the very night of the murder? How does that make him a murderer? To me, it means he's a small child who came upon a horrific scene and needed comfort and on top of that, he just lost his dad?

Who placed the child at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime? Uhhmmm.......let's see, Tim's wife?

Who told the grandparents and LE that this child was capable of this crime? Uhhmmmmm, Vincent's wife. Vincent's wife who was so distraught that she was out going to MULTIPLE parties within three weeks of her husband' {of two months} murder.

Yeah, I know we all grieve differently. Seems almost an understatement in this case.

I know we keep hearing 'Rush to Judgment,' yadda, yadda, yadda, on almost every case. Especially when it's a family member accused. But this case, this case, RUSHHHHHHHH to judgment keeps echoing in my mind. And from watching everything being said and televised, it seems the world has jumped on the band wagon this child committed this crime and now why?

I don't see that at all. I see a scared, traumatized little boy being questioned early the next morning after his dad and friend were murdered, that he, himself came upon, a little boy still in his pajamas being told by LE that he's lying and they're speaking the truth,.......and then they lie to him. Making him believe what he believed wasn't true so he told them story after story after story, until they decided that was the version they wanted and they ran with it. They've only released anything that points towards this child's guilt and hidden from the world, what points to him NOT being guilty.

Convenient they were able to release the ONLY THING that pointed to guilt and are now able to hide behind a 'gag order' for everything exculpatory.

fran

PS....FWIW, I don't know if anyone else noticed that one of the few times this child got upset since this murder, was when he learned that LE released the video of his statement. Does it not occur to anyone that he MAY have been upset that they released this video because he may have, in his own way, told LE a little bit about the REAL MURDERER(S)? That the child was told to be quiet! or they would come back and get him, his mom, his stepmom, his grandparents?!.........He saw his dad and Tim dead, IF this was said to him, there's no doubt in his mind that this person(s) knew where he lived and WOULD follow through on their threat....jmo..fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He was at the scene of the crime. The gunshots were heard around 5:00 pm. The boy's friend's father calls 911 within a few minutes after that.......... after the boy said that they both were dead.

No one told the grandparents that their grandson was capable of doing this. That is what the grandmother told police.

This child is the defendant, accused of the crimes......not the victim. The victims are Vincent Romero and Tim Romans, who lost their lives due to being brutally murdered.

imo

 

[fran]

The only thing I've seen that connected the child to being 'at the scene AT the time of the shooting,' is Tim's wife. The child had already described coming upon the scene with Tim in the doorway and then he ran up the stairs and found his dad. It wasn't until LE told him someone saw him or something that he changed his story.

YES, someone did tell the grandparents this boy could do this, Vincent's wife did. At the time the grandparents told LE that they believed the boy was capable of this crime, they ALSO SAID, I don't recall exact words, but that 'Vincent's wife' thought he did it before they did. AFTER he was arrested, they decided they agreed with her and that's when they made that statement to LE and the news caught it.

Until and IF LE can prove that this child committed this crime, I consider him a victim. LE hasn't proven anything, IMO. Just that they can lie to, intimidate and bully an 8 yo into confessing to murder.

JMHO
fran

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/11/26/20081126stjohns-boy1126-ON.html

According to the police records, family members were not surprised when told one day after the slayings that the boy had confessed to murder. Police Chief Roy Melnick says in his report, "I comforted them as best we could. After several minutes, (the boy's grandmother) shouted out in an angry and loud tone, 'I knew this would happen. They were too hard on (the boy). I knew (he) did it. He spent the night in my bed cuddling up to me. I had a feeling he did it. If any eight year old boy is capable of doing this, it's (him).'

"She then started to tell me something and then stopped herself. She took several deep breaths, wanting to tell me more but stopped herself."

Melnick says the grandmother then said the boy's stepmother suspected the child that night. At that point, the child's grandfather added, "If any eight year old was capable of doing this, (the 8-year-old) was." And the grandmother said, "I knew this was going to happen, they were too hard on (him)."


http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles...says_eightyearold_boy_was_capable_of_killings

In documents released Wednesday, police chief Roy Melnick said Liz Romero, also known as Liz Castillo, shouted out angrily when she was told the boy would be arrested in the November 5 killings.

"I knew this would happen," she said, adding she had a feeling he had done it and, "If any 8-year-old boy is capable of doing this," it was him.

The boy's grandfather, Leroy Romero, echoed the statement and pushed his ex-wife to tell police more, but Melnick said she was overcome with emotion and the officers were asked to leave.

 

[Shelby77]

Just had to throw my 2 cents in about the list that supposedly was not found but the boy told CPS worker about (IIRC)...assuming it exists, coupled with the fact that woman married to his father actually suspected him THAT night (according to the grandmother thru media reports), is it not that unlikely that she would go thru his room, looking for motive, or maybe already having an idea of motive looking for something to substaniate it, and coming across this list. Do you REALLY think she would turn over to LE a tally the boy kept of his spankings given by the her and her husbands hands in the wake of her husbands murder investigation? I think not.
I assumed a ways back that list would NEVER be found for that reason. REGARDLESS of her guilt or innocence, in that situation, I'd think most people would tosss that evidence, QUICK. Seeing her contact with boy has been zilch, to the best of my knowledge, since this happened, she obviously isn't going to do ANYTHING to aid in his defense....just saying...

 

[colette]

People who know the boy think he did it. Strangers who have never met him think he is innocent.

 

[Chargergal]

This is really very typical. This search warrant was signed by Judge Gunnels iirc, so I really think Brewer will lose on this issue but of course like all defense attorneys he will have a go at it and file the motion. If he thinks this case is going forward and for some reason, I tend to think he does think that, then he will start putting in more and more motions in the coming days or weeks.

I remember how many Mark Garegos filed on the SP case and Steve Farese in the Winkler case. SF even put in double motions to suppress Winklers statements to police. The Judge denied them but I had never seen two motions on the same issue before.

imo

I just read the reason the defense is requesting the warrent invalid is because the judge that signed it is a friend of the Romero family and knew both the boy and the dad. "The move cites that the judge who signed the warrant was friends with one of the victims. The attorney argues that the relationship violates Arizona state law requiring a "neutral and detached magistrate" issue search warrants"

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepa...ws-120608-interview-transcripts.394067bb.html

I hope the link works.

 

[Shelby77]

Chargergal - There's much more information in the docs here

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/

 

[Chargergal]

Chargergal - There's much more information in the docs here

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/

Thanks, Shelby this wasn't posted at the time it was only in the paper. Going to get my glass of wine and do some reading.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

People who know the boy think he did it. Strangers who have never met him think he is innocent.

I find it's good to have thoughts and opinions, even when they vary, no matter who anyone is.

imho

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I just read the reason the defense is requesting the warrant invalid is because the judge that signed it is a friend of the Romero family and knew both the boy and the dad. "The move cites that the judge who signed the warrant was friends with one of the victims. The attorney argues that the relationship violates Arizona state law requiring a "neutral and detached magistrate" issue search warrants"

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepa...ws-120608-interview-transcripts.394067bb.html

I hope the link works.

I understand him filing the motion but at the time the boy was not a suspect in the case. It was just unfolding and if he was a friend of Vincent's and also knew the boy, then I would take it he was a friend of his too.

We will see what the Judge determines and whether it is suppressed or not in the end. I am not even sure how many Magistrate Judges they would have available in such a tiny town.

It does show me he thinks the evidence obtained from the search warrant taken from the Romero/Romans crime scene will greatly hurt his client. Which it is his job to file motions trying to suppress any and all evidence that may link his client to the crime.

imoo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I just read the reason the defense is requesting the warrent invalid is because the judge that signed it is a friend of the Romero family and knew both the boy and the dad. "The move cites that the judge who signed the warrant was friends with one of the victims. The attorney argues that the relationship violates Arizona state law requiring a "neutral and detached magistrate" issue search warrants"

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepa...ws-120608-interview-transcripts.394067bb.html

I hope the link works.

Add in the fact that one of the investigating officers is also a neighbor of this child. She even mentions how this child would come over and play with her dog. I would also put that in as an unbiased interview. She never should have had that part of the investigation. Unprofessional/ethical on every level.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

People who know the boy think he did it. Strangers who have never met him think he is innocent.

Strange, isn't it? His own family suspected he was the one who did this.

His own family who knows him well said he was capable of this.

imoo

 

[Trino]

The population of St. Johns is around 1000. Doesn't everybody know everybody?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Add in the fact that one of the investigating officers is also a neighbor of this child. She even mentions how this child would come over and play with her dog. I would also put that in as an unbiased interview. She never should have had that part of the investigation. Unprofessional/ethical on every level.

He would feed her horses sometime.

She also said shortly before the murders he and another boy ran a kitten into a culvert and had a stick poking it in the culvert at the cat. She had to get on to them, iirc and told them to leave the cat alone.

I would think in a town of less than 4,000 most everyone knows everyone.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The population of St. Johns is around 1000. Doesn't everybody know everybody?

I thought it was around 4,000, which that is still a tiny town and yes, I agree most everyone would know each other in some fashion or another.

IIRC, there are over a 100+ cousins there that were kin to Vincent Romero.

imoo