AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[Bobbisangel]

If it was petty jealousy wouldn't he have murdered the wife instead of his dad and Tim? Or maybe he felt it was his dad's fault because he wanted to get married and the boy felt he was being pushed out or he wasn't getting the attention that he used to get from his dad when they were alone.

I wonder if Vinnie and his wife lived together before they married? For some reason I don't think that they did. If they didn't and then Vinnie and the boy moved into her home it would have been a whole different ballgame...all of them living together. He could have also resented the fact that dad had the wife give the swats that night instead of dad giving them. It's just hard to tell.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If it was petty jealousy wouldn't he have murdered the wife instead of his dad and Tim? Or maybe he felt it was his dad's fault because he wanted to get married and the boy felt he was being pushed out or he wasn't getting the attention that he used to get from his dad when they were alone.

I wonder if Vinnie and his wife lived together before they married? For some reason I don't think that they did. If they didn't and then Vinnie and the boy moved into her home it would have been a whole different ballgame...all of them living together. He could have also resented the fact that dad had the wife give the swats that night instead of dad giving them. It's just hard to tell.

I honestly believe he was furious at his father for having Tiffany swat him. I think he HATED being disciplined and seethed over it. He was still talking about it long after his taped confession to the CPS worker. He felt justified in ambushing and murdering two men over it. Scary he believed his own dad had it coming. The threats he made about killing his dad in the past to his dad and others...I bet his father did something as simple as daring to say "no" to this boy.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I honestly believe he was furious at his father for having Tiffany swat him. I think he HATED being disciplined and seethed over it. He was still talking about it long after his taped confession to the CPS worker. He felt justified in ambushing and murdering two men over it. Scary he believed his own dad had it coming. The threats he made about killing his dad in the past to his dad and others...I bet his father did something as simple as daring to say "no" to this boy.

Me too. I think he didn't like that he had new ground rules once they all became a family. Imo before then he had pretty much been spoiled and got his way, then the marriage changed everything. Not only was he expected to be accountable, responsible and have rules to live by and he was furious with his dad messing all that up and the icing on the cake, was when Vinnie finally told Tiff to give him 5 swats.

imoo

 

[Fairy1]

Me too. I think he didn't like that he had new ground rules once they all became a family. Imo before then he had pretty much been spoiled and got his way, then the marriage changed everything. Not only was he expected to be accountable, responsible and have rules to live by and he was furious with his dad messing all that up and the icing on the cake, was when Vinnie finally told Tiff to give him 5 swats.

imoo

We have NO idea what this boy has been talking about! And if he was a spoiled brat used to getting his own way and incapable of dealing with it when he didn't.....whose fault is that? Not saying that's a reason to be murdered, but parenting is waaaaaay more complicated than giving your kids their own way all the time. If Vincent left it up to his new wife to discipline this child, he was asking for trouble one way or another.

And please, let's not compare this new case of the 11-year-old killing his father's pregnant girlfriend. We do not know the true circumstances - really of either of these boys. If we cannot weigh these alleged crimes on their own merit, none of us should be here. IMHO...

 

[Openmind]

Me too. I think he didn't like that he had new ground rules once they all became a family. Imo before then he had pretty much been spoiled and got his way, then the marriage changed everything. Not only was he expected to be accountable, responsible and have rules to live by and he was furious with his dad messing all that up and the icing on the cake, was when Vinnie finally told Tiff to give him 5 swats.

imoo

I thought you said Vincent and Tiffany had been a couple for over four years and the marriage had not changed their relationship. Even so, kids don't overindulge themselves -- adults do.

One thing I can see from both of these cases is the absolute need to lock away guns and ammunition and keep them out of the hands of children unless they are carefully supervised.

 

[Fairy1]

I thought you said Vincent and Tiffany had been a couple for over four years and the marriage had not changed their relationship. Even so, kids don't overindulge themselves -- adults do.

One thing I can see from both of these cases is the absolute need to lock away guns and ammunition and keep them out of the hands of children unless they are carefully supervised.

ITA Openmind. Guns SHOULD be locked away from children at ALL times! I know many here will say that it was not the gun who killed these men but the person with the gun. Still, as parents, we need to understand the mental and emotional capacity of our own children. The fact that Vincent asked his priest if he should give his child a gun speaks volumes to me. It says that he did not trust his own child with a firearm. Why? There was a reason. Yet here we are today - wondering what possibly could have driven this 8-year-old CHILD to kill his own beloved father.

 

[Native New Yorker]

Thank you so much, Fairy and OpenMind....very true that we do not know this child at all, and can only speculate as to why this happened, or even if he did it. We simply do not have all the facts in front of us. ITA about guns/ammo/kids.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I thought you said Vincent and Tiffany had been a couple for over four years and the marriage had not changed their relationship. Even so, kids don't overindulge themselves -- adults do.

One thing I can see from both of these cases is the absolute need to lock away guns and ammunition and keep them out of the hands of children unless they are carefully supervised.

I think they had been a couple for two years or that is what the media said when this first happened. That just means they were seeing each other. I don't think that they lived together during that time. No proof of it though.
If they didn't live together and had become a family after the marriage which would have been 2-3 months before Vinnie's death...it makes sense that that is when this boy begin to change according to his bio mother.

It's a lot different when dad or mom are just dating someone and you are all spending a lot of time together then when they marry and you all live together. That takes a lot of adjusting and the new wife probably has rules that weren't in place before.

I think Vinnie had Tiffany give the boy the 5 swats because she is the one who told the boy to make sure and bring his school work or corrected papers home with him that night. That makes sense to me. I never could figure out why he would have his wife give the swats.

 

[Ruflossn]

I think they had been a couple for two years or that is what the media said when this first happened. That just means they were seeing each other. I don't think that they lived together during that time. No proof of it though.
If they didn't live together and had become a family after the marriage which would have been 2-3 months before Vinnie's death...it makes sense that that is when this boy begin to change according to his bio mother.

It's a lot different when dad or mom are just dating someone and you are all spending a lot of time together then when they marry and you all live together. That takes a lot of adjusting and the new wife probably has rules that weren't in place before.

I think Vinnie had Tiffany give the boy the 5 swats because she is the one who told the boy to make sure and bring his school work or corrected papers home with him that night. That makes sense to me. I never could figure out why he would have his wife give the swats.

IIRC, the night that the boy got the 5 swats, his father was not home. His step mom called the father, explained the story of the homework, the father suggested the step mom administer the punishment. I was wondering if any discussion had been given about the fact that the father was found in the stairwell, w/ his safety goggles and hard hat still on his head. I found that fact strange. I would think that most people would remove both of these items immediately upon leaving work.... It is probably not an issue, but, I did find it strange. Thoughts?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IIRC, the night that the boy got the 5 swats, his father was not home. His step mom called the father, explained the story of the homework, the father suggested the step mom administer the punishment. I was wondering if any discussion had been given about the fact that the father was found in the stairwell, w/ his safety goggles and hard hat still on his head. I found that fact strange. I would think that most people would remove both of these items immediately upon leaving work.... It is probably not an issue, but, I did find it strange. Thoughts?

I don't find that odd,Ruff. May be because in my area there are load of construction workers I know that have the same habit.

I have even seen them in stores shopping after work, still fully in their work gear even with their heavy leather work belts around their hips.

A lot of the ones I know will come home and go to a certain place in their homes everyday and shuck their gear so that they can throw the dirty clothes in one place and place all of their daily work gear in one specific place where it will be ready for the next morning.

I would think his safety goggles were pushed up onto his hard hat. That is where most put them when they are not using them. I believe he still had his ear plugs draped around his neck.

I find it extremely sad that both of these men died within minutes of getting off work.

Also it was chilly that day, in the 50s and with 33 mph wind gust. So they may have kept their heavy work wear on to protect themselves from the chill.


imoo

 

[Ruflossn]

I don't find that odd,Ruff. May be because in my area there are load of construction workers I know that have the same habit.

I have even seen them in stores shopping after work, still fully in their work gear even with their heavy leather work belts around their hips.

A lot of the ones I know will come home and go to a certain place in their homes everyday and shuck their gear so that they can throw the dirty clothes in one place and place all of their daily work gear in one specific place where it will be ready for the next morning.

I would think his safety goggles were pushed up onto his hard hat. That is where most put them when they are not using them. I believe he still had his ear plugs draped around his neck.

I find it extremely sad that both of these men died within minutes of getting off work.

Also it was chilly that day, in the 50s and with 33 mph wind gust. So they may have kept their heavy work wear on to protect themselves from the chill.


imoo

Thanks Ocean.You explnation makes sense. I wear safety glasses at work and I immediately take them off when I do not need them anymore. I never thought about the men putting them on top of their hats etc....... Thanks for the explanantion.

Flossie

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10558131


Deal lets young killer's motives stay hidden
4:00AM Monday Feb 23, 2009
Paul Harris

The bare details of the killing were enough to make it one of the most shocking murders in American history.

An 8-year-old boy in a small, isolated town picked up a rifle and deliberately shot dead his father and another man as they returned home from work.

It left the Arizona community of St Johns traumatised and set the nation looking for answers to explain the actions of the homicidal child.

Now those answers may never be known. Last week the child, now 9, who cannot be named, pleaded guilty in a court deal that will avoid a public trial and ensure that most of the details of the case remain secret.

The move has denied millions of Americans a full account of the baffling crime in which the boy apparently methodically prepared a double murder, carried out with a hunting rifle.

Under the plea deal, the boy will have extensive counselling and therapy but will avoid being jailed in the state juvenile corrections system or tried as an adult.

But it leaves many lingering questions. Almost nothing is known of the exact circumstances or motivation for the shooting that left the boy's father, Vincent Romero, and his lodger, Timothy Romans, dead.

 

[Bobbisangel]

IIRC, the night that the boy got the 5 swats, his father was not home. His step mom called the father, explained the story of the homework, the father suggested the step mom administer the punishment. I was wondering if any discussion had been given about the fact that the father was found in the stairwell, w/ his safety goggles and hard hat still on his head. I found that fact strange. I would think that most people would remove both of these items immediately upon leaving work.... It is probably not an issue, but, I did find it strange. Thoughts?

It isn't strange to me. I grew up in a logging community and the men would come home still wearing their hats and cork boots. When they got home they would take their cork boots off on the porch so they wouldn't make holes in the floor and then they would put their hats in the place where they were kept. Probably keep the hats and safety goggles on so they don't have a bunch of stuff to carry into the house when they get home. Just habit. The dad probably kept them upstairs and just left them on until he reached that place.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks Ocean.You explanation makes sense. I wear safety glasses at work and I immediately take them off when I do not need them anymore. I never thought about the men putting them on top of their hats etc....... Thanks for the explanation.

Flossie

You are very welcome, Flossie.

LOL I have seen them have their prescription glasses on their face and both their sunglasses and work goggles pushed up on their hard hats. :crazy:

 

[Fairy1]

I don't find that odd,Ruff. May be because in my area there are load of construction workers I know that have the same habit.

I have even seen them in stores shopping after work, still fully in their work gear even with their heavy leather work belts around their hips.

A lot of the ones I know will come home and go to a certain place in their homes everyday and shuck their gear so that they can throw the dirty clothes in one place and place all of their daily work gear in one specific place where it will be ready for the next morning.

I would think his safety goggles were pushed up onto his hard hat. That is where most put them when they are not using them. I believe he still had his ear plugs draped around his neck.

I find it extremely sad that both of these men died within minutes of getting off work.

Also it was chilly that day, in the 50s and with 33 mph wind gust. So they may have kept their heavy work wear on to protect themselves from the chill.


imoo

ALL ASSUMPTIONS. Where do you get your information? Do you have men in this line of work coming to your own home immediately after work? We have NO idea what the habits of these particular men were when they got home. And honestly, what difference does it make? I don't understand the importance of this issue... None of us should ASSUME anything about these men or this child. We do not know all of the details and, in all likelihood, we never will.

 

[southcitymom]

ALL ASSUMPTIONS. Where do you get your information? Do you have men in this line of work coming to your own home immediately after work? We have NO idea what the habits of these particular men were when they got home. And honestly, what difference does it make? I don't understand the importance of this issue... None of us should ASSUME anything about these men or this child. We do not know all of the details and, in all likelihood, we never will.

With all due respect, Fairy, everyone of us here has shared our assumptions and speculations on every aspect of this case. OBE's post was her opinion only since that's what she states at the end of it.

As far as the "why were they still wearing workgear?" question - it's been asked by several folks in these threads. I don't think it's an odd thing to consider. Like OBE, I know workers who keep their gear on in some form or fashion for the ride home.

I do agree with you that we will never know all the details we may wish to have. While that frustrates me from a curiosity standpoint, I think it's for a good thing because it is rooted in the desire to give this child the best possible chance to heal and start over.

 

[MeoW333]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10558131


Deal lets young killer's motives stay hidden
4:00AM Monday Feb 23, 2009
Paul Harris

The bare details of the killing were enough to make it one of the most shocking murders in American history.

An 8-year-old boy in a small, isolated town picked up a rifle and deliberately shot dead his father and another man as they returned home from work.

It left the Arizona community of St Johns traumatised and set the nation looking for answers to explain the actions of the homicidal child.

Now those answers may never be known. Last week the child, now 9, who cannot be named, pleaded guilty in a court deal that will avoid a public trial and ensure that most of the details of the case remain secret.

The move has denied millions of Americans a full account of the baffling crime in which the boy apparently methodically prepared a double murder, carried out with a hunting rifle.

Under the plea deal, the boy will have extensive counselling and therapy but will avoid being jailed in the state juvenile corrections system or tried as an adult.

But it leaves many lingering questions. Almost nothing is known of the exact circumstances or motivation for the shooting that left the boy's father, Vincent Romero, and his lodger, Timothy Romans, dead.

Wow, OBE! Great find of article! My guess is that if he was found mentally ill incompetent, then everything is sealed. He'll probably be in a juvenile psychiatric hospital long term, or i'd be surprised. I guess we won't know the story unless he wants to speak about it later in life..

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wow, OBE! Great find of article! My guess is that if he was found mentally ill incompetent, then everything is sealed. He'll probably be in a juvenile psychiatric hospital long term, or i'd be surprised. I guess we won't know the story unless he wants to speak about it later in life..

In my opinion, speaking about it should be a condition of his release from court supervision at the age 18.

The community and his victim's families deserve that much and it would demonstrates a full understanding of his own actions. If he never comes to terms or admits it, how and why should he be released?

 

[Ruflossn]

ALL ASSUMPTIONS. Where do you get your information? Do you have men in this line of work coming to your own home immediately after work? We have NO idea what the habits of these particular men were when they got home. And honestly, what difference does it make? I don't understand the importance of this issue... None of us should ASSUME anything about these men or this child. We do not know all of the details and, in all likelihood, we never will.

The reason I was curious about the goggles/safety hat issue is because I wondered if the father was working on a project at home and if he had been working on a project at home, was there perhaps another adult that may have been at the house, working with him. W/out the knowledge of a concrete timeline, I was curious if another adult may have been at the house at the time of the murder of the Father. Again, it is probably nothing but, that was my line of thinking in regards to the safety goggles and hat. In my profession, I wear safety goggles and I can not stand wearing them any longer than necessary. I take them off ASAP when they are not needed.

Flossie

 

[Linda7NJ]

When Carolyn Moore answered the light knock on her front door Sunday night, she was greeted by a boy wearing only burgundy underwear and holding a shotgun. "There stood this poor, scared half-naked little boy saying 'Help me, help me. Hide me. They're after me,'" Moore said. "I could see the fear in his eye. He said, 'They're going to get me and spank me hard.'"

On Wednesday, Allen County authorities said the 10-year-old boy was charged with first-degree murder in the shotgun slaying of his father. Robert D. Hamlin , 43, was found dead Sunday night at his home near Humboldt.

"The child said, 'I done something really bad,'" Moore said, recalling their conversation. "And I said, `What did you do?'

"He said, 'I shot my dad.'"

The boy, whose name was not released, was charged as a juvenile and could be held until age 23 if convicted. A closed juvenile court hearing was conducted in the county seat of Iola, eight miles north of Humboldt, and a judge ordered the case sealed.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154878,00.html


another kid...over a spanking