AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[southcitymom]

It really has been strange somewhat and imo, it is certainly not the norm when we look at all the other cases being discussed here now and in the past. Like SCM states most people really don't like someone they think has killed or murdered someone. All it takes to realize that is go to each thread where there are numerous defendants and deceased victims being discussed.

The victims usually aren't thrown under the bus from the very beginning either but in this case for so long it was nothing but negative things posted about the true victims who cruelly lost their lives as if somehow that made their deaths acceptable and their lives less worthy. And to this day there is nothing showing that VR was ever abusive to his child and there is nothing showing that TR did anything to the defendant except try to come to his aide when he called him in.

imo

It is because of the child's age when he did this. If he had been 19, this story might have been a thread that had 2 pages max - if a thread even got started at all. IMHO.

 

[mostlylurking]

IMO the court and those involved are beginning to awaken to the fact that the boy should be incarcerated. The mother is living with a convicted felon - not a very good situation. The boy is not in regular school and may have too much time on his hands. I wonder how things are going with the mother taking care of both the boy and the boy's half-sister.

And, by the way, the boy is no longer 8 - will be 10 years old in six (?) months.

bolding mine.
no, she is not. She did for 2 days & when she found out left. She may still see him, I don't know. But is not living with him.

 

[mostlylurking]

The little girl now lives with her father. The boy was to attend 4 hours of school a day at the detention center.

No. Shared custody back and forth between them.

 

[Bobbisangel]

The little girl now lives with her father. The boy was to attend 4 hours of school a day at the detention center.

Gee, maybe we should all pitch in some money and buy this Mother Of The Year a nice gift for being such a great mother! She was going to do all of these things for this boy and so far she seems to be batting zero. What does she think...that all she has to do is house this kid until he is 18 years old and everything will be just fine? She sure doesn't seem to be putting out any energy in helping him and making sure the court orders are followed.

If I'm not mistaken this is the mother that most people thought should have custody of this boy even though none of us really knew anything about her except what she said. Now she has handed another child off to her father and acting like this boy doesn't really matter. I doubt that this mother was any better mother before she lost this boy then she is now. But she sure had a good line of BS.

I had a feeling it would turn out like this because this mother didn't believe this boy had any problems in the first place. What's to fix if nothing was ever wrong?? She doesn't think he is guilty and I wonder if she has ever sat down with him and had a mom to son talk about that day. I have my doubts. It really ticks me off because this boy is worse off now then he was before. At least in detention or somewhere for boys his age he would be supervised, schooled, get therapy and some attention. It's about time the court put the best interest of this child first and get him out of that house and away from his dear ole mom.

I think this mom was a great talker and had this kid totally snowed. He thought life would be so much better with mom. She probably told him she would never spank him and she was probably telling the truth because people don't correct there kids if they don't gave a darn about what they are doing or about them.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I've tried to make myself not post, as I'm afraid I'm just going to go ballistic on this.
First, no, I don't have links. Take it as opion.

I believe the following will be proven.
Mom had written permission to take child with her to NM. Record of permission was not provided from one dept to another in the town legal system.
School was not in progress the days of the trip, thus the permission.
Grandmother's inquiry on gun has been misinterpreted & she will be asked to testify on that.
Dugout issue does not have a formal complaint made by anyone, other than the mention by Whiting. Who complained? What was real issue? (as an aside, I was at little league in my town tonight & a large number of kids and parents go in and out of the dugouts regularly)
Can't speak to the friend of mom or his history. I hope that is wrong, or cleared up.
Child is eligible for SSI, hasn't been approved yet.
Mom is taking child to all the counseling as required. She get's reimbursed after the fact by state, so travel to get there is difficult on costs up front.

Don't remember the other issues.

Again, my opinion, and no links.

Why hasn't he been going to school 4 hours a day at detention?

This boy is elgible for Social Security not SSI. His father worked and that is who he would draw from. I wonder if he can draw Social Security from someone he murdered??? Probably not.

 

[Bobbisangel]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...TAM&SECTION=US

Prosecutors have asked a judge to return a 9-year-old Arizona boy awaiting sentencing in the death of his father's friend to juvenile detention, saying his family is failing to ensure that he and the community are safe.

Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting said the boy violated numerous conditions of his furlough, including leaving the state without permission and missing court-ordered schooling sessions. Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer said proving the allegations will be difficult, and he questioned whether they are serious enough to warrant the boy's return to custody.

more at above link

The defense attorney says that the boy isn't responsible for the place he has to live or where he travels...well..the mother is responsible and if she doesn't want to go by the rules laid down by the court then she shouldn't have this boy. The defense attorney says these alligations will be hard to prove...why would they be hard to prove? The boy either went to school or he didn't...they either traveled when they shouldn't have been out of state or they didn't...they either live with a felon in his home or they don't. How hard is it to prove any of these!

The dugout sounds like the boy ran in there to sit with old friends but they didn't want him sitting with them and some parents didn't want him around their children. This boy might as well get used to this because he murdered two people. I wouldn't want my 9-10 yr old son hanging out with him either.
I thought his mother lived elsewhere and that is where they would be living.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Um, the court IS in charge. They just authorized additional payment for the evaluation - at the taxpayer's expense. We're talking about a child here. It's not rocket science and since he's not deceased, I don't believe any "dissecting" is required. He's 9. I don't believe there's anything complicated about him.

I realize you want to believe this boy is a mastermind, diabolical, cold-blooded murderer. But the very fact that he is a child really does not support that theory. He's just a little boy. IMO, of course.

No, we will likely never know anything about his psychological evaluation. I'm ok with that. He's a child and NONE OF US KNOW what was happening in that house leading up to the murders of VR and TR. WE DO NOT KNOW how TIFFANY WAS WITH CR.

Some of the posters on this case maintain that CR had an unconrollable an deep-seeded rage against his father. I have yet to see any evidence of that. So, they went to his school? So, he was - reportedly - seen with Tiffany frequently. We still do not know what was happening in that home, between CR and VR and TR. This is no different than so many cases we see on WS where friends, family and neighbors are befuddled by what has transpired. NO ONE knows what goes on behind closed doors and people can make things appear just as they wish to on the outside.

And who cares if they took him to the dentist? How is that relevant? Lots of abusers are well-to-do and go through the motions of "caring" for their children.

And, IIRC, the "victims" in this case are deceased. I don't believe there are any recent victims of the murderer. I'm sensing a lynch mob here....

IMHO

Do you honestly think that the only victims in this case are dead? What about
the grandparents...weren't they victims? What about Vincent's brothers and sisters...weren't they victims? And that other family...Tim's family? This kid lift a string of victims behind. If you disagree with that then you have never had a family member murdered.

Not all boys of the same age are like little cookie cutters. They all aren't the same. I would like to think that every boy ever born was just like my son was at 8. 9. 10, 11, 12, and on and on. He was thoughtful and considerate and caring and he was all boy. Murder wasn't on his mind but bike riding and sliding on the mud flats, etc, were. He was your average kid. Then there are kids that are sick like this boy. He isn't your average kid and probably never has been. There has been no proven abuse in that household so abuse can't be blamed on the murders. Nothing points to a reason or motive except maybe mom putting ideas in his head about how different life would be if he only lived with her. That is my guess. But healthy kids don't murder out of the blue no matter how much they think the grass might be greener on the other side of the fence. There is something wrong with a boy who would kill two people. One being his father. I wonder if he even feels any remorse?

 

[Openmind]

Murder wasn't on his mind but bike riding and sliding on the mud flats, etc, were. He was your average kid. Then there are kids that are sick like this boy. He isn't your average kid and probably never has been. There has been no proven abuse in that household so abuse can't be blamed on the murders. Nothing points to a reason or motive except maybe mom putting ideas in his head about how different life would be if he only lived with her. That is my guess. But healthy kids don't murder out of the blue no matter how much they think the grass might be greener on the other side of the fence. There is something wrong with a boy who would kill two people. One being his father. I wonder if he even feels any remorse?

If this child was so different and so evil, how did everyone miss it? That has been my bone of contention from the start. That this evil child was so mentally unhealthy that out of the blue he picked up a gun and murdered two people and everyone seemed shocked by the crime. If he was that deranged, why wasn't he getting help for his issues.

 

[fran]

If this child was so different and so evil, how did everyone miss it? That has been my bone of contention from the start. That this evil child was so mentally unhealthy that out of the blue he picked up a gun and murdered two people and everyone seemed shocked by the crime. If he was that deranged, why wasn't he getting help for his issues.

Well, upon reading the documents and statements filed, it's apparent that the child's propensity to evil were detected at the tender age of 5.

From what I've observed, the statement that the boy was *manipulative* came from his kindergarten teacher.

I guess that from now on, any child we see as young as 5, we should begin counseling immediately if they're ever able to convince another child to play with them or to share a toy. :slap:

Unbelieveable,
fran

PS........I just had to bring this up as that is ONE of the signs I've seen some posters on the internet have given that this child was capable of this crime. He is *manipulative.* Thank goodness my five kids (no make that 6 for the 'someone else's' child we also raised) weren't that way and fought over everything!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If this child was so different and so evil, how did everyone miss it? That has been my bone of contention from the start. That this evil child was so mentally unhealthy that out of the blue he picked up a gun and murdered two people and everyone seemed shocked by the crime. If he was that deranged, why wasn't he getting help for his issues.

I don't think kids who do this have to have fangs or smoke coming from their nostrils. In many other juvenile cases where they murder their parents or their entire families they were thought of often as "good kids" who had plenty of friends, socialized well and excelled in school and other activities. A lot of them were known to their friends as having a close relationship with their immediate families. And yes, 99 per cent of the time it seems like every time the family and friends are shocked and would never had thought them capable of heinous acts. Just seems to be the norm.

How does one really comprehend that strange antics are really foreboding warnings to gloom/doom and death to another? I believe that the parents often think it is just a phase they are going through like millions of other children.

I don't think he is deranged but I do believe long ago there was a disconnect and this boy is unable to bond with or care about anyone other than himself. I don't think he has any remorse for the deaths of his father or Tim. One cannot have remorse if they are incapable of feeling remorse. Imo, over the years he has learned to mimic "love" by watching others and uses it when he wants to manipulate to gain the tactical advantage.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No. Shared custody back and forth between them.

So how does that work when the child is five and her mother lives in one state and her father in another?

Even if they got shared custody who was given primary custody of the little girl?

imo

 

[mostlylurking]

Why hasn't he been going to school 4 hours a day at detention?

This boy is elgible for Social Security not SSI. His father worked and that is who he would draw from. I wonder if he can draw Social Security from someone he murdered??? Probably not.

Other than days when the classes at detention were not in session, he has been going. It was only a few weeks ago that that became required.

You are right. It's social security, not SSI.
He plead guilty to negligent homicide of someone else, not his father.
Your perception of what he did or is guilty of is not relevant to his
eligibility to receive it.

 

[mostlylurking]

So how does that work when the child is five and her mother lives in one state and her father in another?

Even if they got shared custody who was given primary custody of the little girl?

imo

Not sure how after school starts. For now, I believe, it is simply shared time between them & shared custody.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not sure how after school starts. For now, I believe, it is simply shared time between them & shared custody.

The reason I asked is most cases I have known about when shared custody is given the Judge will designate one of them as the primary custodian where the child remains in their home most of the time with the other parent having rights to see them.

imo

 

[mostlylurking]

The reason I asked is most cases I have known about when shared custody is given the Judge will designate one of them as the primary custodian where the child remains in their home most of the time with the other parent having rights to see them.

imo

I have several friends in NM (which is one of the two states in this custody arrangement) where the children are very literally half time with each parent, and shared custody means shared custody. In those cases, both parents are in the same town. Don't have a clue how that changes when there are two states involved.

In this case, I was trying to clarify another poster's perception that daughter was living soley with dad. As I understand it, shared custody is the phraseology used in this case & the legalities underlying it in that particular phrase I can't speak to.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have several friends in NM (which is one of the two states in this custody arrangement) where the children are very literally half time with each parent, and shared custody means shared custody. In those cases, both parents are in the same town. Don't have a clue how that changes when there are two states involved.

In this case, I was trying to clarify another poster's perception that daughter was living soley with dad. As I understand it, shared custody is the phraseology used in this case & the legalities underlying it in that particular phrase I can't speak to.

Didn't she have shared custody of the boy also but Vinnie was given physical custody?

imo

 

[mostlylurking]

Didn't she have shared custody of the boy also but Vinnie was given physical custody?

imo

I don't remember.

 

[mrrogers]

The little girl now lives with her father. The boy was to attend 4 hours of school a day at the detention center.

tell rocha about it hes the one that made crs schedule. hes the one that told them to bring him in at 1 or 130pm so take you complaint to the man that made the rule !!!!!!!!!!! keep up the good work fran,dgfred

 

[Linda7NJ]

No. Shared custody back and forth between them.

The little girl is living with her dad....in another state. How often do you think the mother is going to be visiting her? She can't even take care & support herself. She can't afford transportation costs to Phx for the boy's evualtions. She can't provide basic dental care for her son....How often do you think she'll be visiting her daughter?

IMO It isn't going to happen. History is repeating itself.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have several friends in NM (which is one of the two states in this custody arrangement) where the children are very literally half time with each parent, and shared custody means shared custody. In those cases, both parents are in the same town. Don't have a clue how that changes when there are two states involved.

In this case, I was trying to clarify another poster's perception that daughter was living solely with dad. As I understand it, shared custody is the phraseology used in this case & the legalities underlying it in that particular phrase I can't speak to.

The mother can't even afford a basic studio apt for herself. She has nothing and is going nowhere. IMO

This is nothing new for her........her divorce wasn't even final and she's dragging the boy with her to spend the night with yet another man? A felon? After she was warned about it? One has to wonder where exactly her priorities and focus really lies. Because it's not the boy.