AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

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  • #861
Why? Even though he had been touched, he still had a significant amount found on his clothing.

And again it is only one piece of evidence that points to him and imo there will be more. All of them will not be considered as mere coincidences imo.

And they did wear gloves at the crime scene.

And the article is about FBI testing. This was not done in a FBI lab but one out of Bexar County Texas.

imo

The same principle would apply regardless the lab. If contamination occurs in an FBI lab, you can bet it occurs in other labs as well. The boy's clothing wasn't collected at the crime scene, i believe it was collected from his grandparents' house days later.
 
  • #862
The same principle would apply regardless the lab. If contamination occurs in an FBI lab, you can bet it occurs in other labs as well. The boy's clothing wasn't collected at the crime scene, i believe it was collected from his grandparents' house days later.


I think it is presumptuous to assume the lab was contaminated in Bexar County Texas, when there is no evidence of that.
 
  • #863
The same principle would apply regardless the lab. If contamination occurs in an FBI lab, you can bet it occurs in other labs as well. The boy's clothing wasn't collected at the crime scene, i believe it was collected from his grandparents' house days later.


Yes, they were. From laundry that needed to be done if I remember the grandmother's statement correctly. I wonder if the lab considered contamination from other clothing. Did they collect other clothing to disregard possible residue from other items? I don"t believe so.
 
  • #864
I think it is presumptuous to assume the lab was contaminated in Bexar County Texas, when there is no evidence of that.

have you investigated that? do you know their history?
 
  • #865
In normal cases, the child would be released to a family member and not held in a juvenile detention facility. If i can recall right (please correct me if i'm wrong) he is not able to go home as he has no one to take him. Would that be the reason he is still being held?
For the judge to waive the legal time period is horrible. The child needs to get back to a normal home environment asap, and if he doesn't have one to go back to, they need to find a loving home for him.
I don't understand how anyone would want to try an 8 year old child as an adult, it makes no sense. If that is what the judicial system is coming to, it shows a lot for society and how they think of children.
Brewer's request for a therapist for the boy should have been granted. He needs someone to talk to about what happened, or he will suffer even greater in the long run emotionally.
A child of that age is better off in a theraputic environment that a juvenile detention center.

In cases of homicide, normally LE is so quick to look at spouses. This case must be the exception, as i've not seen Tiffany or Tonya looked at closely.
Lest we forget, Tiffany was out partying with friends after Vincent's death. That is not the behavior of a grieving wife who truly loved her husband.

To those posters who compare the boy to Casey Anthony, that is ridiculous and there is no comparison at all. I don't find one thing similiar between the two cases.

Meow...
I believe his mom has filed for custody. I also believe she will have to be a resident of AZ (if not St. Johns) before he can be released to her. I would look for that to happen at the next meet up. It was scheduled for the 21st, I think, & has been postponed a week because of Wood's vacation.
 
  • #866
have you investigated that? do you know their history?

I don't presume to know their history or assume their lab is contaminated.

All I know there has been no evidence of that.

I do think this........they aren't the FBI lab and I would think that the State would send the clothing for analysis to an outside party, that has a very credible reputation, since they could have sent it to any lab they chose.

imoo
 
  • #867
I don't presume to know their history or assume their lab is contaminated.

All I know there has been no evidence of that.

I do think this........they aren't the FBI lab and I would think that the State would send the clothing for analysis to an outside party, that has a very credible reputation, since they could have sent it to any lab they chose.

imoo

Hmm, for thought... I wonder where they do send out, for testing, crime evidence. Do the counties have one special crime analyst group they send possible evidence to? I wonder who it is.
 
  • #868
I don't presume to know their history or assume their lab is contaminated.

All I know there has been no evidence of that.

I do think this........they aren't the FBI lab and I would think that the State would send the clothing for analysis to an outside party, that has a very credible reputation, since they could have sent it to any lab they chose.

imoo

How do you know there is no evidence of that?
 
  • #869
Hmm, for thought... I wonder where they do send out, for testing, crime evidence. Do the counties have one special crime analyst group they send possible evidence to? I wonder who it is.

IMO, because it is much better to have a reputable third party to do some of the actual analysis. I believe that is why they chose Bexar County Texas for the GSR analysis.

They did send some of the forensics to the Arizona DPS which is a state agency not a local agency. The DPS forensic team was on the scene very quickly.

imoo
 
  • #870
How do you know there is no evidence of that?

Are you telling me that you do know they have experienced contamination? Then by all means, please enlighten me. I have heard nothing nefarious about this lab, perhaps you have.

If so, do you have a link? TIA

imoo
 
  • #871
According to one article I read regarding the dispersement of GSR as a weapon is fired, more than 10's of 1000's of particles are dispelled each time a weapon is discharged. EVERYTHING within range is contaminated, from carpeting, clothing, drapes.

A weapon was discharged 10 times inside the murder home. The child claimed there was still smoke in the air when he entered. IMO, that would mean GSR particles were floating as he entered. 36 trace particles of GSR is NOTHING compared to what was dispelled by the murder weapon.

The defense COULD take a few test samples of just about anything that was in the vicinity of the victims and there most likely is more than 35 particles on those. Course, the crime scene has been released, and seeing the way this back-woods police dept handled everything else, they most likely did NOT take a 'test sample' of anything else in the home. So, IMHO, the GSR test is moot, at best.

In other words, the GSR means nothing. One expert even said the child's clothes could have gotten GSR on them from that home, even if it had been hanging in the closet.

From what I believe I recall, the officers placed the shirt and pants inside the same bag, thus allowing possible cross-contamination. :slap:

JMHO
fran


http://www.ppiac.org/gunshot.htm

The article said that more recent studies have demonstrated that non-shooters who have not been near the firearm could be contaminated. Lubor Fojtasek and TomasKmjec at the Institute of Criminalistics in Prague , Czech Republic , fired test shots in a closed room and attempted to recover particles 2 meters away from the shooter. The researchers found unique particles up to eight minutes after firing a test shot. This suggests, according to their study, that someone entering the scene after a shooting could have more particles on them than a shooter who runs away immediately. (Forensic Science International, Vol. 153, p 132).
 
  • #872
Are you telling me that you do know they have experienced contamination? Then by all means, please enlighten me. I have heard nothing nefarious about this lab, perhaps you have.

If so, do you have a link? TIA

imoo
GentleBreeze
I don't. I never said I knew they have experienced contamination. I was asking you where you knew they did not. You said "All I know there has been no evidence of that." Where is your link?
 
  • #873
GentleBreeze
I don't. I never said I knew they have experienced contamination. I was asking you where you knew they did not. You said "All I know there has been no evidence of that." Where is your link?


Sheesh. It it is my opinion based on having no knowledge that they have contamination problems.

You are expecting me to prove a negative when that can't be done. How can I presume they have contamination problems when I have nothing factual to base it on?

O/T

And just a side note. When you are on another site, like IS, you should refrain from using my nic I use here. Coldwater doesn't like posters calling a poster by a different nic other than the one that is used on that site.

And have you lost your bearings? Why are you calling me GentleBreeze, here? Do you think you are still posting on IS?

imoo
 
  • #874
So, does anyone know if the officer who questioned the child that first night at the neighbor's home is the same officer who entered the murder scene (home) and cleared it? The same one who drew her weapon?

Wonder if she touched the child? IF it is the same one and IF she touched the child, she may have transferred a few of those GSR 'particles' to the child's clothing. Course, it'd be kind of hard to tell since the child's clothes weren't taken until the next day AFTER he'd been around other people. OTHER PEOPLE who MAY have handled a gun that day that COULD have transferred GSR particles to his clothing.

The GSR 'particle' info regarding this child is CONTAMINATED. Doesn't mean a thing. Especially coming from a hunting family.

JMHO
fran

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2006/research/2006_07_research01.htm

It was also agreed that armed law enforcement officers can transfer GSR particles to a subject through contact
 
  • #875
Sheesh. It it is my opinion based on having no knowledge that they have contamination problems.

You are expecting me to prove a negative when that can't be done. How can I presume they have contamination problems when I have nothing factual to base it on?

O/T

And just a side note. When you are on another site, like IS, you should refrain from using my nic I use here. Coldwater doesn't like posters calling a poster by a different nic other than the one that is used on that site.

And have you lost your bearings? Why are you calling me GentleBreeze, here? Do you think you are still posting on IS?

imoo
sorry to have upset you.
 
  • #876
sorry to have upset you.

You haven't upset me at all. I just couldn't understand why you were using other nics to address me here and there.:confused:

imoo
 
  • #877
So, does anyone know if the officer who questioned the child that first night at the neighbor's home is the same officer who entered the murder scene (home) and cleared it? The same one who drew her weapon?

Wonder if she touched the child? IF it is the same one and IF she touched the child, she may have transferred a few of those GSR 'particles' to the child's clothing. Course, it'd be kind of hard to tell since the child's clothes weren't taken until the next day AFTER he'd been around other people. OTHER PEOPLE who MAY have handled a gun that day that COULD have transferred GSR particles to his clothing.

The GSR 'particle' info regarding this child is CONTAMINATED. Doesn't mean a thing. Especially coming from a hunting family.

JMHO
fran

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2006/research/2006_07_research01.htm

It was also agreed that armed law enforcement officers can transfer GSR particles to a subject through contact

How? She never fired her weapon that day.

Since this town had not even had a murder suspect in years, I highly doubt that many of them ever had to fire their weapon even in the line of duty.
 
  • #878
So, does anyone know if the officer who questioned the child that first night at the neighbor's home is the same officer who entered the murder scene (home) and cleared it? The same one who drew her weapon?

Wonder if she touched the child? IF it is the same one and IF she touched the child, she may have transferred a few of those GSR 'particles' to the child's clothing. Course, it'd be kind of hard to tell since the child's clothes weren't taken until the next day AFTER he'd been around other people. OTHER PEOPLE who MAY have handled a gun that day that COULD have transferred GSR particles to his clothing.

The GSR 'particle' info regarding this child is CONTAMINATED. Doesn't mean a thing. Especially coming from a hunting family.

JMHO
fran

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2006/research/2006_07_research01.htm

It was also agreed that armed law enforcement officers can transfer GSR particles to a subject through contact

Very good points brought up, Fran, especially since he's from a hunting family. I'm sure he helped his dad clean the guns, too, and from the pictures of the house it looked a bit messy. Who knows when laundry got done.. I'm sure he came into contact with a lot of people who had been inside the house, or who could have potentially fired a gun. I'm surprised if the GSR holds up in court due to all the fumbling police work.
 
  • #879
Sheesh. It it is my opinion based on having no knowledge that they have contamination problems.

You are expecting me to prove a negative when that can't be done. How can I presume they have contamination problems when I have nothing factual to base it on?

O/T

And just a side note. When you are on another site, like IS, you should refrain from using my nic I use here. Coldwater doesn't like posters calling a poster by a different nic other than the one that is used on that site.

And have you lost your bearings? Why are you calling me GentleBreeze, here? Do you think you are still posting on IS?

imoo

OBE, don't get mad at Seashore, it's understandable debates sometimes get heated. :blowkiss:
 
  • #880
OBE, don't get mad at Seashore, it's understandable debates sometimes get heated. :blowkiss:

LMBO Well blow me down ........I didn't even realize it had become heated!:crazy:

I was just confused and certainly not upset in the least.

:blowkiss:
 
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