AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

[MeoW333]

While this comment was not directed at me, I feel I should respond because, I, too, feel the boy is guilty. OBE, like me, has only stated opinions, based on what is known. This does not mean we have no empathy for the boy. Guilt and empathy are separate items.

IMO the boy needs both punishment and help without forgetting the Roman and Romero families. They, too, deserve justice.

Until i see some hard evidence, i try to keep an open mind. While i do realize that it is possible he committed the murders, i also see the other side of it. I try to look at all angles of the case. Either way, i hope the boy is able to get help whether or not he committed the murders. Whether he did it or not, he still may have PTSD from the events. I hope that he can get a therapist asap to deal with whatever feelings he may have about what happened. By not providing the boy an outlet to express his feelings or concerns about the murders, they are doing more harm than good.
He was to have killed 2 grown men with a single shot .22 in a very short amount of time. Maybe the only way to see how good a shot he is, is to take him to the police rifle range supervised.

If the boy were older and had officers interrogating him professionally and not in the way the officers did this boy, i may feel differently.

Even if the boy did kill the 2 men, i still have empathy for him, as to why would a child feel they had to do such a thing. If it is found he has conduct disorder, i feel bad for him that he ruined his life and that of others.
I also feel for the victims. Innocent until proven guilty, and LE did a shoddy job in the investigation from the beginning. If the case was handled differently, i may have a different opinion. This is an 8 year old boy (he was 8 at the time) and not a hardened teenage criminal with a track record.

 

[Openmind]

While this comment was not directed at me, I feel I should respond because, I, too, feel the boy is guilty. OBE, like me, has only stated opinions, based on what is known. This does not mean we have no empathy for the boy. Guilt and empathy are separate items.

IMO the boy needs both punishment and help without forgetting the Roman and Romero families. They, too, deserve justice.

I am still curious, what punishment? Do you want him locked in prison for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, for the rest of his life?

If he did commit these horrific crimes, obviously he has some serious mental issues, even if there are contributing factors (real abuse, neglect, etc., or perceived by the child) that pushed him to these devastating actions. If guilty, do you think he should be held until 18, being treated for his problems, and then serve prison time as an adult after 18? I agree, this is a terrible crime, but I have concerns holding an adult responsible for actions they took when they were incapable of fully understanding their actions due to age and/or mental issues. His tender age of eight/nine has a huge impact on this case. I do understand children this young are can be held accountable for their actions, but that has to be in reference to crimes they can understand -- lying, stealing, destroying property, etc. Those are behaviors an eight/nine year old can generally understand the impact of their choices. Murder, and a double murder at that, is not a crime our laws have addressed for a child this young.

I wonder if the families are looking for this kind of "justice." This boy's life is devastated no matter what and do the families of the victims really want this child's life to be even more destroyed for their sense of justice? Truth is, there is no justice adequate for the loss of two lives, so do they toss away this child's life, as well, for some form of punishment.

 

[fran]

I don't think so. They said that they first thought he was covering for someone, like a family member. That was the reason at first that they did not want any family members in there, hoping he would tell them who did these crimes.

If that had been the case, children are often afraid to open up when an adult is present, especially a family member.

imoo

That's not true. ONE of the reasons the detectives wanted to question the boy again was to see if he was INVOLVED with the crime, (ie shooter or accomplice). That would make him a suspect. This was discussed during a briefing, early in the morning PRIOR to the boy's second interview, with 10 - 15 officers in attendance.

During the hearings these officers denied they suspected the child as the shooter or as an accomplice, but their own words of the 'briefing' prior to the actual second interview prove they were not being exactly forthcoming with the judge.

When the grandfather originally refused to allow them to question the boy again because they wouldn't allow someone (ie family) with him, he also suggested a 'professional' (ie laywer, couselor FOR the boy), but he was refused that option as well. IF it was just because they suspected a family member and the boy was afraid to speak up, they would have allowed a neutral third party.

FWIW, now that the pros has filed to NOT count the (bogus) confession and the original statement to the CPS worker but delcare they'll still use them if the child testifies, is a way for them to say they did nothing wrong with these interviews. However, the defense isn't going to let them get away with that. The def has filed a new motion for the pros to EXPLAIN themesleves.

This chief thinks he solved the case and he's so mistaken its almost laughable, if it wasn't such a serious matter.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Smart move by the prosecutor to throw that interview out, it would just get thrown out in court anyway. It's already made St John's PD the laughing stock of how not to interview a child.

Well, now IMO, I feel the judge is 'working with' the pros to get around the confession.

NOT only do they now have NO PROBABLE CAUSE to hold the child as the shooter, the judge has 'waived the legal time period' for LE to come up with the evidence without releasing this child. Why? IMHO, because he can as he's a CHILD.

NOW, they have given the child over to the juvenile authorities who will be able to talk to him. Do you think this child will realize that his Constitutional Right to remain silent counts with anyone he'll encounter in the juvenile facility? Do you think they'll tell the judge anything he says?

IF this child were an adult, 1 he'd be released by now and 2 he would realize he can't say anything or they'll use it against him in court. But we're talking about a third grader here. He does NOT realize the consequences of his every action now. They got ONE FALSE confession out of him, IMHO, they could most likely do it again. IF that happens, this time they'd just say he was aware of his Rights.

IMHO, this is the MOST messed up investigation I've ever witnessed in my life and the biggest miscarriage of justice since I've been a member of Websleuths.

The St. Johns PD should be ASHAMED of themselves and the judge as well, for continuing this charade.

I HOPE that when this is all said and done, this child receives the therapy he will need to recover, NOT only from the shock of finding his own dad and friend murdered, but from the emotional damage being caused by his incarceration.

Shocking! Just shocking,
JMHO
fran

 

[Trino]

I am still curious, what punishment? Do you want him locked in prison for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, for the rest of his life?

If he did commit these horrific crimes, obviously he has some serious mental issues, even if there are contributing factors (real abuse, neglect, etc., or perceived by the child) that pushed him to these devastating actions. If guilty, do you think he should be held until 18, being treated for his problems, and then serve prison time as an adult after 18? I agree, this is a terrible crime, but I have concerns holding an adult responsible for actions they took when they were incapable of fully understanding their actions due to age and/or mental issues. His tender age of eight/nine has a huge impact on this case. I do understand children this young are can be held accountable for their actions, but that has to be in reference to crimes they can understand -- lying, stealing, destroying property, etc. Those are behaviors an eight/nine year old can generally understand the impact of their choices. Murder, and a double murder at that, is not a crime our laws have addressed for a child this young.

I wonder if the families are looking for this kind of "justice." This boy's life is devastated no matter what and do the families of the victims really want this child's life to be even more destroyed for their sense of justice? Truth is, there is no justice adequate for the loss of two lives, so do they toss away this child's life, as well, for some form of punishment.

Since we are not privy to the mental issues of the boy, there is no way to say what punishment he should receive, although I cannot see the boy just being released. I do, however, feel, assuming his guilt, he should receive some sort of confinement to be determined based on his evaluations. And, yes, he should (and will shortly) received therapy on a road to rehabilitation.

Whatever your feelings about this, murder for a child this young has been addressed by the State of AZ. He can be charged as an adult.

 

[seashore]

Well, now IMO, I feel the judge is 'working with' the pros to get around the confession.

NOT only do they now have NO PROBABLE CAUSE to hold the child as the shooter, the judge has 'waived the legal time period' for LE to come up with the evidence without releasing this child. Why? IMHO, because he can as he's a CHILD.

NOW, they have given the child over to the juvenile authorities who will be able to talk to him. Do you think this child will realize that his Constitutional Right to remain silent counts with anyone he'll encounter in the juvenile facility? Do you think they'll tell the judge anything he says?

IF this child were an adult, 1 he'd be released by now and 2 he would realize he can't say anything or they'll use it against him in court. But we're talking about a third grader here. He does NOT realize the consequences of his every action now. They got ONE FALSE confession out of him, IMHO, they could most likely do it again. IF that happens, this time they'd just say he was aware of his Rights.

IMHO, this is the MOST messed up investigation I've ever witnessed in my life and the biggest miscarriage of justice since I've been a member of Websleuths.

The St. Johns PD should be ASHAMED of themselves and the judge as well, for continuing this charade.

I HOPE that when this is all said and done, this child receives the therapy he will need to recover, NOT only from the shock of finding his own dad and friend murdered, but from the emotional damage being caused by his incarceration.

Shocking! Just shocking,
JMHO
fran

Ditto:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[MeoW333]

"In documents released Wednesday by the Apache County prosecutor's office, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said that Liz Romero, also known as Liz Castillo, shouted out angrily when she was told the boy would be arrested in the Nov. 5 killings. "I knew this would happen," she said. "They were too hard on [the boy]. I knew [the boy] did it. He spent the night in my bed cuddling up to me. I had a feeling he did it. If any 8-year-old boy is capable of doing this, it's [the boy]."
The boy's grandfather, Leroy Romero, echoed the statement and pushed his ex-wife to tell police more, but Melnick said she was overcome with emotion, and the officers were asked to leave."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/27/AR2008112702553.html

I'm reposting this qoute again as i think it's relevant to whats going on in this case. It gives reason for why the grandparents were against the boy being interrogated "as a witness" by the officers. It also shows that if he is guilty, he may have been "triggered" by abuse. Most all cases of parricide are caused by abuse. The child feels there is no way out other than to kill a parent(s). This article was printed Nov 28, 2008. The boy has not shown prior signs of conduct disorder, and if he had it, he would have shown signs of bad behavior/acting out in school. Awhile ago on one of these threads, some posters mentioned he could have conduct disorder and be "mimicking emotions". Due to his age, i don't think he could successfully be able to do that as his brain is not fully developed, he still has the mind of an 8 year old boy.

The reaction was from the grandmother when she found out the boy would be arrested. She "shouted out angrily" when finding out he was going to be arrested. So what we have is a heat of the moment reaction where the grandmother is trying to find reason for the actions of the boy (whether or not he has really murdered 2 people). I'm not sure if we should hold much water, if any to the grandmother's statement, as it was an emotional response when she is already under a lot of stress with the death of her son and her grandson arrested in the murder. If anything, it says that "they were too hard on him" yet doesn't elaborate.

The boy's statement about the 1,000 spankings is also not being used in court.

Here is article from today Jan 10, 2009

"Even if admitted, some of that evidence may be tainted or of questionable value because the child and his father were heavily involved in hunting. Experts say gunshot residue on the boy's clothing could have come from multiple sources. Likewise, they said, the boy's fingerprint found on an ammunition box could have been left at an earlier date. Phoenix attorney Gary Peter Klahr said loss of the confession substantially weakens a case, especially when some forensic evidence may be suspect.
"That's a major blow," he said. "There's enough circumstantial evidence so it could still go to a jury. . . . But I have a lot more reasonable doubt on this than I did on O.J."
Bennett, the University of Arizona professor, was among several experts Tuesday who criticized efforts to prosecute the child as an adult. Even if the boy committed the offense, he said, the state should be trying to figure out why he did it and how to help him.
"If you step away from the gruesomeness of it all, trying to hold an 8-year-old to the standards of an adult just doesn't make any sense," Bennett said."
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/01/07/20090107stjohns0107.html

 

[seashore]

"In documents released Wednesday by the Apache County prosecutor's office, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said that Liz Romero, also known as Liz Castillo, shouted out angrily when she was told the boy would be arrested in the Nov. 5 killings. "I knew this would happen," she said. "They were too hard on [the boy]. I knew [the boy] did it. He spent the night in my bed cuddling up to me. I had a feeling he did it. If any 8-year-old boy is capable of doing this, it's [the boy]."
The boy's grandfather, Leroy Romero, echoed the statement and pushed his ex-wife to tell police more, but Melnick said she was overcome with emotion, and the officers were asked to leave."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/27/AR2008112702553.html

I'm reposting this qoute again as i think it's relevant to whats going on in this case. It gives reason for why the grandparents were against the boy being interrogated "as a witness" by the officers. It also shows that if he is guilty, he may have been "triggered" by abuse. Most all cases of parricide are caused by abuse. The child feels there is no way out other than to kill a parent(s). This article was printed Nov 28, 2008. The boy has not shown prior signs of conduct disorder, and if he had it, he would have shown signs of bad behavior/acting out in school. Awhile ago on one of these threads, some posters mentioned he could have conduct disorder and be "mimicking emotions". Due to his age, i don't think he could successfully be able to do that as his brain is not fully developed, he still has the mind of an 8 year old boy.

The reaction was from the grandmother when she found out the boy would be arrested. She "shouted out angrily" when finding out he was going to be arrested. So what we have is a heat of the moment reaction where the grandmother is trying to find reason for the actions of the boy (whether or not he has really murdered 2 people). I'm not sure if we should hold much water, if any to the grandmother's statement, as it was an emotional response when she is already under a lot of stress with the death of her son and her grandson arrested in the murder. If anything, it says that "they were too hard on him" yet doesn't elaborate.

The boy's statement about the 1,000 spankings is also not being used in court.

Here is article from today Jan 10, 2009

"Even if admitted, some of that evidence may be tainted or of questionable value because the child and his father were heavily involved in hunting. Experts say gunshot residue on the boy's clothing could have come from multiple sources. Likewise, they said, the boy's fingerprint found on an ammunition box could have been left at an earlier date. Phoenix attorney Gary Peter Klahr said loss of the confession substantially weakens a case, especially when some forensic evidence may be suspect.
"That's a major blow," he said. "There's enough circumstantial evidence so it could still go to a jury. . . . But I have a lot more reasonable doubt on this than I did on O.J."
Bennett, the University of Arizona professor, was among several experts Tuesday who criticized efforts to prosecute the child as an adult. Even if the boy committed the offense, he said, the state should be trying to figure out why he did it and how to help him.
"If you step away from the gruesomeness of it all, trying to hold an 8-year-old to the standards of an adult just doesn't make any sense," Bennett said."
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/01/07/20090107stjohns0107.html

Thank you for this post. I've repeatedly tried to point these types of things out to no avail. Ditto Ditto Ditto:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[MeoW333]

Well, now IMO, I feel the judge is 'working with' the pros to get around the confession.

NOT only do they now have NO PROBABLE CAUSE to hold the child as the shooter, the judge has 'waived the legal time period' for LE to come up with the evidence without releasing this child. Why? IMHO, because he can as he's a CHILD.

NOW, they have given the child over to the juvenile authorities who will be able to talk to him. Do you think this child will realize that his Constitutional Right to remain silent counts with anyone he'll encounter in the juvenile facility? Do you think they'll tell the judge anything he says?

IF this child were an adult, 1 he'd be released by now and 2 he would realize he can't say anything or they'll use it against him in court. But we're talking about a third grader here. He does NOT realize the consequences of his every action now. They got ONE FALSE confession out of him, IMHO, they could most likely do it again. IF that happens, this time they'd just say he was aware of his Rights.

IMHO, this is the MOST messed up investigation I've ever witnessed in my life and the biggest miscarriage of justice since I've been a member of Websleuths.

The St. Johns PD should be ASHAMED of themselves and the judge as well, for continuing this charade.

I HOPE that when this is all said and done, this child receives the therapy he will need to recover, NOT only from the shock of finding his own dad and friend murdered, but from the emotional damage being caused by his incarceration.

Shocking! Just shocking,
JMHO
fran

In normal cases, the child would be released to a family member and not held in a juvenile detention facility. If i can recall right (please correct me if i'm wrong) he is not able to go home as he has no one to take him. Would that be the reason he is still being held?
For the judge to waive the legal time period is horrible. The child needs to get back to a normal home environment asap, and if he doesn't have one to go back to, they need to find a loving home for him.
I don't understand how anyone would want to try an 8 year old child as an adult, it makes no sense. If that is what the judicial system is coming to, it shows a lot for society and how they think of children.
Brewer's request for a therapist for the boy should have been granted. He needs someone to talk to about what happened, or he will suffer even greater in the long run emotionally.
A child of that age is better off in a theraputic environment that a juvenile detention center.

In cases of homicide, normally LE is so quick to look at spouses. This case must be the exception, as i've not seen Tiffany or Tonya looked at closely.
Lest we forget, Tiffany was out partying with friends after Vincent's death. That is not the behavior of a grieving wife who truly loved her husband.

To those posters who compare the boy to Casey Anthony, that is ridiculous and there is no comparison at all. I don't find one thing similiar between the two cases.

 

[MeoW333]

Thank you for this post. I've repeatedly tried to point these types of things out to no avail. Ditto Ditto Ditto:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Your welcome, Seashore.. i've been trying for a long time now :blowkiss:

 

[MeoW333]

Yes, they can but they are having difficulty knowing how.

Thus far, I would say his age has contributed more to abusing his rights than protecting them.

The boy seems to be taking the fall for a "landmark case" that wants to be made at the expense of himself, and it is sad..
If our country wants to start charging children as adults, there won't be any hope for rehabilitating them..

 

[Openmind]

Whatever your feelings about this, murder for a child this young has been addressed by the State of AZ. He can be charged as an adult.

Yes, they can but they are having difficulty knowing how.

Thus far, I would say his age has contributed more to abusing his rights than protecting them.

I will leave it to this expert quote posted by MeoW33:

Bennett, the University of Arizona professor, was among several experts Tuesday who criticized efforts to prosecute the child as an adult. Even if the boy committed the offense, he said, the state should be trying to figure out why he did it and how to help him.
"If you step away from the gruesomeness of it all, trying to hold an 8-year-old to the standards of an adult just doesn't make any sense," Bennett said."
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...johns0107.html

 

[Openmind]

The boy seems to be taking the fall for a "landmark

If our country wants to start charging children as adults, there won't be any hope for rehabilitating them..

Sorry, MeoW33, I kind of leap frogged over your comment to add that quote from your post.

Sadly, there seems to be more reckless mistakes than thoughtful considertion for the victims or the accused, and their landmark case is going to become a landmark for all the wrong reasons.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think so. If it were the case he was covering for a family member, he should have been appointed an attorney present at first or as soon as he started "confessing".
It's obvious you want to see the boy guilty, OBE, and have no empathy for him.

No, I don't want him to be guilty, MeoW, but it is my own entitled opinion that I believe he is. Having sympathy or not for any defendant is irrelevant imo. There is not a prerequisite or some given rule, that any defendant must be liked or given sympathy in any case and it shouldn't be in this one. My sympathy is with the two murdered victims who will more than likely never receive justice in this case.


I do agree, however; as soon as he said he was the shooter, he then should have been appointed a lawyer and read his Miranda rights. But that too is irrelevant now as the confession will not be entered in the trial, if there is one.

imo

 

[fran]

Wonder where grandpa's 22 is? The 22 automatic, Mossberg that takes the same ammunition as the child's Cricket. The gun that should be in the case pictured by LE from the murder scene 'evidence photo.':bang:

http://ktar.com/?sid=993970&nid=237&pid=4

Grandpa, ....."...a small white car like grandpa's."

hmmm............

Grandpa's gun is missing
White car 'like grandpa's.'

Yeah, the case is solved. NOT!!!!!

pffft,
fran

 

[MeoW333]

Sorry, MeoW33, I kind of leap frogged over your comment to add that quote from your post.

Sadly, there seems to be more reckless mistakes than thoughtful considertion for the victims or the accused, and their landmark case is going to become a landmark for all the wrong reasons.

No worries, Openmind

OBE, this is one case we won't agree on, it happens sometimes.. :truce:?
Is that the right smiley to use?
I don't surrender, i just accept we won't agree on this one..

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In normal cases, the child would be released to a family member and not held in a juvenile detention facility. If i can recall right (please correct me if i'm wrong) he is not able to go home as he has no one to take him. Would that be the reason he is still being held?
For the judge to waive the legal time period is horrible. The child needs to get back to a normal home environment asap, and if he doesn't have one to go back to, they need to find a loving home for him.
I don't understand how anyone would want to try an 8 year old child as an adult, it makes no sense. If that is what the judicial system is coming to, it shows a lot for society and how they think of children.
Brewer's request for a therapist for the boy should have been granted. He needs someone to talk to about what happened, or he will suffer even greater in the long run emotionally.
A child of that age is better off in a therapeutic environment that a juvenile detention center.

In cases of homicide, normally LE is so quick to look at spouses. This case must be the exception, as i've not seen Tiffany or Tonya looked at closely.
Lest we forget, Tiffany was out partying with friends after Vincent's death. That is not the behavior of a grieving wife who truly loved her husband.

To those posters who compare the boy to Casey Anthony, that is ridiculous and there is no comparison at all. I don't find one thing similiar between the two cases.

I don't think this case is anywhere near the normal or typical case dealt with in the juvenile system. I think he remains where he is due to the nature of the crimes. I would think that double homicides committed by juveniles in Az. are as scarce as hen's teeth.

As far as I am aware he is not going to be tried as and adult. His case seems to be proceeding through the juvenile system. I think at first, both LE and the DA were stunned by the heinousness of these double homicides.

From what I recall, Judge Roca also had concerns about the therapist being able to keep information confidential. I don't know the laws in Az., but maybe if a Court assigns and the county pays for the therapist, then that can not be kept confidential from either party, State or Defense.

I think JR will rule that the therapist will be provided to him but he may make certain stipulations attached to it.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Wonder where grandpa's 22 is? The 22 automatic, Mossberg that takes the same ammunition as the child's Cricket. The gun that should be in the case pictured by LE from the murder scene 'evidence photo.':bang:

http://ktar.com/?sid=993970&nid=237&pid=4

Grandpa, ....."...a small white car like grandpa's."

hmmm............

Grandpa's gun is missing
White car 'like grandpa's.'

Yeah, the case is solved. NOT!!!!!

pffft,
fran

Are you saying that Vincent's own father murdered his son and then Mr. Romans?

How do we know the gun is missing? The grandfather could have come by before this happened and retrieved his weapon from his son. If so he would tell the police that the gun was back at his house. So we have no idea if the weapon is missing or not.

Also I thought the Mossberg 720 used the .17 caliber bullets found at the scene?

 

[fran]

I could be wrong, but IMHO, the def wants a therapist to talk to this child, BECAUSE he IS a child and he needs someone to talk to. Having said that, we know what can happen if the child's words are twisted, he's led to doubt his own memory, and led down a path at the questioner's direction. The defense doesn't want to happen AGAIN, what happened in the BOGUS confession video.

I understand the child has seen a def therapist, but they have to talk to the child behind a glass partician. IMO, a child needs human contact. Treating him like a criminal and in solitary confinement is not the way to treat a CHILD. Seems as if this in itself is a form of ABUSE.

FWIW, IF this were my child or grandchild, I would have already contacted a Civil Rights Lawyer and served the St. Johns PD, each officer, Apache County, AND thus judge. I'm not just talking about having him released, either.

Probably couldn't happen, but I SURE WOULD persue it as a possibility, IF it were me.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Are you saying that Vincent's own father murdered his son and then Mr. Romans?

How do we know the gun is missing? The grandfather could have come by before this happened and retrieved his weapon from his son. If so he would tell the police that the gun was back at his house. So we have no idea if the weapon is missing or not.

Also I thought the Mossberg 720 used the .17 caliber bullets found at the scene?

Kind of shocking isn't it? That Vincent's own father would kill him and his friend?

Not as far fetched as an 8 yo child killing both grown men with a single action 22, before getting the drop on him.
Not as far fetched as saying an 8 yo boy could get off 10 rapid rounds, from a single action 22, without dropping a single live round on the ground.
Not as far fetched as an 8 yo child killing his own father and friend because his step mom spanked him the night before.
Not as far fetched as saying an 8 yo child killed his own father when there's a MULTITUDE of possible suspects, NOT investigated. Or, at least we don't KNOW that they've been investigated, which means they're STILL RULED in as SUSPECTS.
Yes, we don't know the Mossberg, 22 Automatic is missing, but by all accounts it is. LE said all the 22's in the house were confiscated, which was the boy's 22 Cricket. Yet, LE takes an 'evidence photo' of an EMPTY gun case with an OWNER'S MANUAL of a Mossberg 22 Automatic.
The child said the grandfather kept his gun there. The child said the get-a-way car was a small 'white car, like grandpa's.'
Yeah, kind of shocking, just like jumping to the conclusion this child committed this crime when there is NO proof he did it yet there's OTHERS who have, motive, means, opportunity, UNTIL they're investigated.

JMHO
fran

PS....In an earlier post I put a link that said the Mossberg 22 CAN take the same 22LR shell as the Cricket. Not sayin' they're the best for accuracy, etc. Just because LE took a picture of a box of shells of the .17 whatever, doesn't mean that's what the Mossberg auto takes.......fran

PPS...Why did LE take a picture of the 22 Mossberg Automatic "Owner's Manual" when it wasn't the alleged murder weapon? Why the empty gun case? Where's the gun? fran