AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[southcitymom]

I'm with Linda7NJ in that I feel like it is going as smoothly as we could possibly expect given the true uniqueness of this case. And, as I have said before, I am glad that most of what is happening is not public. I believe that is to the child's great benefit.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The Apache County Attorney's Office has filed three motions with the Apache County Superior Court in reference to their earlier motion for a continuance.


The first motion dealt with attorney Steve Williams' objection to the state's motion to a continuance. Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting said they requested his motion be stricken from the record as neither Williams nor his client, the 9-year-old boy's mother Eryn Bloomfield, are a party in the case.
In the second motion, Whiting responded to the court's prior order. He said the state forwarded a copy of their earlier motion to the Juvenile Probation Office and that they did speak with both of the victims in the matter. He said none of the victims objected to the continuance.
Finally, Whiting and defense attorney Ron Wood filed another stipulated motion for continuance, listing an additional reason. Whiting said he spoke with the director of the Arizona Department of Juvenile Corrections who agreed to come to Apache County to review case materials and make a report regarding treatment options available through Juvenile Corrections.
The motion additionally asked the court to make all records in the case, both sealed and unsealed, available to Juvenile Corrections. In a phone interview, Whiting said neither the state nor the defense were looking at putting the boy in Juvenile Corrections' custody so he could be "behind bars," but for treatment. He said right now it seems to be the only way the juvenile would get treatment.
http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20380640&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6


It appears to me both the boys attorney as well as the prosecutor recognize the DIRE importance of TREATMENT for this child.

 

[southcitymom]

The Apache County Attorney's Office has filed three motions with the Apache County Superior Court in reference to their earlier motion for a continuance.


The first motion dealt with attorney Steve Williams' objection to the state's motion to a continuance. Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting said they requested his motion be stricken from the record as neither Williams nor his client, the 9-year-old boy's mother Eryn Bloomfield, are a party in the case.
In the second motion, Whiting responded to the court's prior order. He said the state forwarded a copy of their earlier motion to the Juvenile Probation Office and that they did speak with both of the victims in the matter. He said none of the victims objected to the continuance.
Finally, Whiting and defense attorney Ron Wood filed another stipulated motion for continuance, listing an additional reason. Whiting said he spoke with the director of the Arizona Department of Juvenile Corrections who agreed to come to Apache County to review case materials and make a report regarding treatment options available through Juvenile Corrections.
The motion additionally asked the court to make all records in the case, both sealed and unsealed, available to Juvenile Corrections. In a phone interview, Whiting said neither the state nor the defense were looking at putting the boy in Juvenile Corrections' custody so he could be "behind bars," but for treatment. He said right now it seems to be the only way the juvenile would get treatment.
http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20380640&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6


It appears to me both the boys attorney as well as the prosecutor recognize the DIRE importance of TREATMENT for this child.

I agree that all sides agree this boy needs treatment and are working to get him treatment.

 

[Linda7NJ]

One of the victims in this case is preparing a victim impact statement.

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/STATES%20RESPONSE%20TO%20THE%20COURT'S%20ORDER.pdf

I'm guessing it's Tiffany

 

[dgfred]

I agree that all sides agree this boy needs treatment and are working to get him treatment.

Well the boy needing help and treatment is far from news for this case.

Let's see if the prosecution solution for help/treatment is to throw him in the slammer after promising that was not their intention all along. Jail will not be the answer, the help there will be smothered by the other problems being in jail will cause. After all during the plea deal process the boy was basically promised if he accepted the deal he would not have jail time... what a lie.
What happened to treatment facilities, foster care and that type of help?

 

[southcitymom]

Well the boy needing help and treatment is far from news for this case.

Let's see if the prosecution solution for help/treatment is to throw him in the slammer after promising that was not their intention all along. Jail will not be the answer, the help there will be smothered by the other problems being in jail will cause. After all during the plea deal process the boy was basically promised if he accepted the deal he would not have jail time... what a lie.
What happened to treatment facilities, foster care and that type of help?

I couldn't agree with you more that jail isn't the answer for this child. I do not expect that he will be sent to jail. I do not think any of the Court officers want him to go to jail.

I do not know what sort of help is appropriate or available for the child - it sounds like that is what they are trying to determine and it sounds like there are some financial and other issues that they are trying to work past. Am I missing something?

I understand that some do not trust the Pros or the Court, but I do have faith that they are trying to do the best they can for this child.

 

[mysteriew]

I don't agree with you that MOST who support this child accept that he killed Romans. All have accepted his fate, but not necessarily agree with the 'guilt' part. There really is no choice in the matter. It is what it is. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it is.

I don't know about a conspiracy, but I've seen nothing but incompetence on every level of this case. I don't believe there was a thorough investigation nor complete investigation. Lab reports that even hinted as pointing towards the child could be debunked by any first year student forensic lab tech witness. There's not one piece of evidence that can prove, beyond a doubt, this child committed this crime. There are some who THINK it's proven by what the pros let into the public domain; but frankly, IMHO, not enough people in a row are convinced of this child's guilt, to insure a guilty conviction should it have gone to trial. FWIW, I actually talked to a forensic chemist, who does testify as an expert witness and from what I gathered, some of the alleged incriminating evidence tested, is questionable at best.

I don't believe it does any good to sit here and arm-chair psychoanalyze this child as it's virtually impossible to do if one has never even talked to the child. Nobody here knows what's going on with this boy and his family since they've been imprisoned in their own home. Of course what little is leaked by the pros is to make the boy appear as if he's troubled, that's their j o b. Being sure everyone believes it's the child who did this crime. After all, if they don't have the funds to treat the supposed criminal child, they certainly don't have the funds should they be told to investigate the case further and run additional forensic testing.

I think my feelings on this case are clear. I still don't believe he did this crime and a great injustice has not only been done to this child and his mom, but to the victims as well. The incompetence of this court doesn't help matters either. They keep messing with this child, they may end up with a civil liberty suit and end up releasing him with time served. Which, in a way would be unfortunate for this child, because even if he didn't kill these two men, the State of Arizona has at the least, made sure he NOW has some psychological problems with the way he's been treated and imprisoned in his own home and not allowed to talk to hardly any outside persons and denied his education for now, his second year.

JMHO
fran

Thank you for your comparisons of the two cases. I have never been comfortable with the conviction of this child. IMO LE screwed this up from the time of the child's interview. What 8 year old is compentent to understand his rights? They might understand the words "You have the right to an attorney", that they might understand. But do they understand when an attorney is needed? Mine didn't at that age. You have the right to remain silent, but then they kept talking to him. They are the authority and they kept talking to him. So of course he will keep talking. Nope, I have never been comfortable with that interview.

Of the comparisons, yeah those are really close. And I agree, Imon probably wouldn't admit to these two because someone was already convicted on those. And a kid at that. He wouldn't look like much of a tough guy if it was found out that he let a little kid take the fall for those.

I would really love to see someone write this one up and send it to the Inocence project. With not only the info about the inital interview with the boy but also with this comparison that you did.

 

[mysteriew]

I agree with everything you said IMO His shrinks have uncovered disturbing information that the depth and scope of this boy's psychological make-up is such that in all likelihood...he's a psychopath.

I didn't know they had released his psych report. Could you provide the link to that? I would like to read it.

 

[mysteriew]

Just so I am clear..........You wanted this kid to get off scott free regardless if he murdered two men or not? Who exactly does that benefit?
Would you rather he be tried as an adult? The juvenile system is set up to at least attempt to rehabilitate. Ya can't have it both ways. You use his young age to shield him, yet complain when he's treated like a child. Pick one.

I can't answer for dgfred but I would like to answer this one for myself. No I don't want to see the kid get off scot free if he killed his father and his father's roommate. But I would like to see this case get investigated. I would like to see the killer identified, and backed up by evidence. To me, the only thing worse than allowing a murderer to go free is to imprison the wrong person. Then you not only have a murderer running around free, you have an innocent person locked up. That offends my sense of order and justice.

LE botched this from the first interview. They rushed the kid into an interrogation right after his father's death. Before he had anyone there to look out for him. They read him his "rights" yes. But I don't believe that most kids at the age of 8 would understand their "rights." Yes, he had the "right" to an attorney. But he didn't have one. And he couldn't pay for one. And he didn't know how to get one. And that would be just one more grownup asking him questions. And there was this nice lady from his neighborhood there asking the questions. She said he didn't have to answer them, but she kept asking the questions. And there were things she wanted him to say, and she kept asking the questions until finally he said the things that she wanted him to say.

IF and that is a big if, this kid is guilty then yes he should be punished. But let's see some investigation first. Let's see some physical evidence. Or see someone who is trained in dealing with young children to do the interviewing. Or for goodness sakes, why not just get him an attorney to stand in for his parents if the interrogation had to be done right then!

Let's not just say, well there is a lot of community uproar over this murder, let's settle it quick. The kid was there, he was the last that we know of to see them alive, let's just "talk" to him and see what we can get him to say.

 

[Trino]

I can't answer for dgfred but I would like to answer this one for myself. No I don't want to see the kid get off scot free if he killed his father and his father's roommate. But I would like to see this case get investigated. I would like to see the killer identified, and backed up by evidence. To me, the only thing worse than allowing a murderer to go free is to imprison the wrong person. Then you not only have a murderer running around free, you have an innocent person locked up. That offends my sense of order and justice.

LE botched this from the first interview. They rushed the kid into an interrogation right after his father's death. Before he had anyone there to look out for him. They read him his "rights" yes. But I don't believe that most kids at the age of 8 would understand their "rights." Yes, he had the "right" to an attorney. But he didn't have one. And he couldn't pay for one. And he didn't know how to get one. And that would be just one more grownup asking him questions. And there was this nice lady from his neighborhood there asking the questions. She said he didn't have to answer them, but she kept asking the questions. And there were things she wanted him to say, and she kept asking the questions until finally he said the things that she wanted him to say.

IF and that is a big if, this kid is guilty then yes he should be punished. But let's see some investigation first. Let's see some physical evidence. Or see someone who is trained in dealing with young children to do the interviewing. Or for goodness sakes, why not just get him an attorney to stand in for his parents if the interrogation had to be done right then!

Let's not just say, well there is a lot of community uproar over this murder, let's settle it quick. The kid was there, he was the last that we know of to see them alive, let's just "talk" to him and see what we can get him to say.

Not going to happen. He's a juvenile.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you for your comparisons of the two cases. I have never been comfortable with the conviction of this child. IMO LE screwed this up from the time of the child's interview. What 8 year old is compentent to understand his rights? They might understand the words "You have the right to an attorney", that they might understand. But do they understand when an attorney is needed? Mine didn't at that age. You have the right to remain silent, but then they kept talking to him. They are the authority and they kept talking to him. So of course he will keep talking. Nope, I have never been comfortable with that interview.

Of the comparisons, yeah those are really close. And I agree, Imon probably wouldn't admit to these two because someone was already convicted on those. And a kid at that. He wouldn't look like much of a tough guy if it was found out that he let a little kid take the fall for those.

I would really love to see someone write this one up and send it to the Inocence project. With not only the info about the in ital interview with the boy but also with this comparison that you did.

Imon sounds like he would like nothing better than to have two additional murders under his belt to further his serial killer status. Imo, there are no similarities in those cases and this one.

imo

 

[sdn8tv]

The Apache County Attorney's Office has filed three motions with the Apache County Superior Court in reference to their earlier motion for a continuance.


The first motion dealt with attorney Steve Williams' objection to the state's motion to a continuance. Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting said they requested his motion be stricken from the record as neither Williams nor his client, the 9-year-old boy's mother Eryn Bloomfield, are a party in the case.
In the second motion, Whiting responded to the court's prior order. He said the state forwarded a copy of their earlier motion to the Juvenile Probation Office and that they did speak with both of the victims in the matter. He said none of the victims objected to the continuance.
Finally, Whiting and defense attorney Ron Wood filed another stipulated motion for continuance, listing an additional reason. Whiting said he spoke with the director of the Arizona Department of Juvenile Corrections who agreed to come to Apache County to review case materials and make a report regarding treatment options available through Juvenile Corrections.
The motion additionally asked the court to make all records in the case, both sealed and unsealed, available to Juvenile Corrections. In a phone interview, Whiting said neither the state nor the defense were looking at putting the boy in Juvenile Corrections' custody so he could be "behind bars," but for treatment. He said right now it seems to be the only way the juvenile would get treatment.
http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20380640&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6


It appears to me both the boys attorney as well as the prosecutor recognize the DIRE importance of TREATMENT for this child.

And you could have heard a pin drop when the judge asked Whiting to read his statements and point out if he was lying or misquoted...

Correct, plea agreements are entered into everyday...not usually by 9 year olds...but nothing is typical about this case. And how often are these plea deals thrown out because the state cannot live up to their end of the plea and therefore the defendent takes the fall for the state not living up to their end. I will tell you Whiting is talking out both sides of his mouth and was called out on in a public court.

 

[sdn8tv]

I didn't know they had released his psych report. Could you provide the link to that? I would like to read it.

Contrary to what some might want to believe, the psych reports have not been released for general viewing and no they did not find that this boy was a psycho killer or that he has deep behavioral problems...quite the contrary!

Can someone show me one nine year old boy who lived through this experience that would not need therapy????

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Contrary to what some might want to believe, the psych reports have not been released for general viewing and no they did not find that this boy was a psycho killer or that he has deep behavioral problems...quite the contrary!

Can someone show me one nine year old boy who lived through this experience that would not need therapy????

BBM

Since you are saying this as a statement of fact would you kindly link to the information that confirms that he is not a kid with behavioral problems?

I find that highly doubtful since no mental health facility is wanting to treat this kid, even the local mental health department.

While some like to poo poo Whiting because he is the DA and this kid is the defendant, I do believe him when he said the issue is this boy does not have mental illness but it is a behavioral issues instead and that is why they are getting no where when trying to seek therapy for him.

As of now the only ones willing to see if there is some place this kid can go to be treated, whether it works or not is the AZ Corrections Department.

imo

 

[Linda7NJ]

Contrary to what some might want to believe, the psych reports have not been released for general viewing and no they did not find that this boy was a psycho killer or that he has deep behavioral problems...quite the contrary!

Can someone show me one nine year old boy who lived through this experience that would not need therapy????

HUGE difference between "therapy" and residential treatment.

A normal innocent child that witnessed the murder of his own father and another may suffer from PTSD and would benefit by receiving grief therapy. Neither require residential treatment.

They're trying to find an intensive RTC because the shrinks found him to be a danger to others and in desperate need of intensive treatment.

 

[Linda7NJ]

sniped Contrary to what some might want to believe, the psych reports have not been released for general viewing and no they did not find that this boy was a psycho killer or that he has deep behavioral problems...quite the contrary!

and you base this on?

 

[dgfred]

Imon sounds like he would like nothing better than to have two additional murders under his belt to further his serial killer status. Imo, there are no similarities in those cases and this one.

imo

'NO SIMILARITIES' :waitasec: , wow... y'all really are amazing with the blinders and all. How do two more murders further along a serial killer status...
they have their own status ladder?

 

[dgfred]

HUGE difference between "therapy" and residential treatment.

A normal innocent child that witnessed the murder of his own father and another may suffer from PTSD and would benefit by receiving grief therapy. Neither require residential treatment.

They're trying to find an intensive RTC because the shrinks found him to be a danger to others and in desperate need of intensive treatment.

There you go again with the 'Internet Analysis and Therapy' about a boy you know literally nothing about, will not ever know probably, but do not mind a bit trashing in a forum. How much common sense does it take to realize a judge does not let a boy that is 'a danger to others' go live with his mom???
Good grief.

 

[Linda7NJ]

There you go again with the 'Internet Analysis and Therapy' about a boy you know literally nothing about, will not ever know probably, but do not mind a bit trashing in a forum. How much common sense does it take to realize a judge does not let a boy that is 'a danger to others' go live with his mom???
Good grief.

Funny the double standard you use when discussing this case. I hadn't realized you were involved in LE's investigation and aware of all of the sealed evidence to draw the conclusion a proper investigation wasn't done and it's a huge conspiracy to frame a child. ........eyeroll............

I'm not the one lacking common sense I am not the one completely ignoring the facts. They've been provided to you. Here it is yet again:



Number 16

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs...2006162009.pdf

I will not be discussing this with you again, as your refusal to accept reality has become tiresome. Have a great day!

 

[dgfred]

Hooray, you ARE the one blind to common sense and you ARE the one ignoring it. #16 says 'until you are determined to NOT pose a threat'... so they are still determining if he is a danger to his mom or anyone else WHILE he is living with his mom. So imo you have just reinforced my post saying the Judge realizes he is NOT a danger to his mom... thanks... giant wink!

Anyone can also see the investigation was not done properly... don't need any inside knowlege for that... giant eyeroll! No one said anything about huge conspiracy... only a poor job at investigating, and an underhanded prosecution team.

If my so called non-acceptance of reality has stopped your 'discussion' (which I haven't seen or read btw) it has been a really good day so far... giant thanks!