AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[trofanji]

I would say that the vast majority have access to all sorts of knives. American kitchens are stocked with them.

There are some parts in this country where darn near EVERY child has their own gun & ammo and full access to it after being taught how to use it and gun safety.

Good grief...Reading here it seems so many children are coddled, and excused so much these days and have so few responsibilities their IQs have plummeted over the years. That's scary!

there are much country's with less or no children who killed someone, all those countries have very strict weapon laws and the adults are responsible for their children.

 

[jjenny]

Thank you for all your posts oceanblueeyes. It is very difficult to post on this topic due to the entrenched beliefs. Even if the kid was abused every day for his 8 years, how can you justify the murder of the roomer? Lured in to the home for his killing.... you can't justify that one.

And what abuse are we talking about? Spanking? Many kids are spanked, it doesn't cause them to kill anyone.
As for hunting, I know perfectly nice people who hunt (starting as children) and it didn't cause them to kill anyone either.
It's not uncommon in rural areas for people to teach their children to hunt.

 

[jjenny]

I think if someone who was abused for 10 years and never even day dreamed about harming their abuser is someone who I would consider as odd as a hen with teeth.

There is a book called "when children kill" by Paul Mones, an attorney who specializes in children who commit patricide or matricide. I recommend you read it if you feel this boy is as odd as a hen with teeth. It is a very hard book to read.

I am sorry, but I hope you aren't arguing that an 8 year old accused of killing his father and another man is a common occurrence. Really.

 

[sdn8tv]

I am sorry, but I hope you aren't arguing that an 8 year old accused of killing his father and another man is a common occurrence. Really.

Not at all. I was responding to a comment that a person who indicated they were abused more than 10 years said they never wished harm on their abuser. That is what I find hard to believe.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Not at all. I was responding to a comment that a person who indicated they were abused more than 10 years said they never wished harm on their abuser. That is what I find hard to believe.

Well don't.

The vast majority of abused children just want to please their parents and want to be loved.

I find it RIDICLOUS and DESPARATE for anyone to claim that this boy was a physically abused child.

 

[fran]

Vince's own mother, the boy's grandmother, when first learning this child confessed to the crime, stated something like, "I was afraid of that. I told them they were too hard on the boy." PERHAPS not exact words, but close.

ALL documents are now sealed. It would be naive to ASSUME there was no abuse because we have no proof, ie FURTHER public statement. The doctors know and so does the family, IF there was abuse.

People say this was like an aberration that a child this young, would kill. One should then ask themselves, IF it's so rare, then why did this happen? Why would this child feel so desparate that he went way beyond and eliminated those around him.

Why?

I don't believe it's desparation to suspect physical and mental abuse. But we'll never know for sure. UNLESS it comes to trial and from what I've seen, that doesn't seem to be what is going to happen.

JMHO
fran

 

[dgfred]

Well don't.

The vast majority of abused children just want to please their parents and want to be loved.

I find it RIDICLOUS and DESPARATE for anyone to claim that this boy was a physically abused child.

Using capital letter does not even make you close to right... just admit you really have no idea.

 

[trofanji]

I can only say, the gag order doesn't work for the boy!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Using capital letter does not even make you close to right... just admit you really have no idea.

There wasn't a mark on the child. This is evidenced in his detention intake paperwork. Not a single bruise.

If he was bruised or had suffered multiple fractures over the years the defense would have been shouting it from the roof tops. Matter of fact...the defense stated there was NO EVIDENCE OF ABUSE. The kid even lied about his "spanking diary."

That's enough for me to draw a conclusion that there wasn't any abuse.

The kid wasn't scared of his father. Statements were taken that the boy actually threatened to kill his father, in front of witnesses, more than once. Yes, he was slapped for being so disrespectful. IMO While I can't condone it, that does not equal child abuse.

 

[trofanji]

Well don't.

The vast majority of abused children just want to please their parents and want to be loved.

I find it RIDICLOUS and DESPARATE for anyone to claim that this boy was a physically abused child.

You are right, the boy liked to be loved!

 

[dgfred]

There wasn't a mark on the child. This is evidenced in his detention intake paperwork. Not a single bruise.

If he was bruised or had suffered multiple fractures over the years the defense would have been shouting it from the roof tops. Matter of fact...the defense stated there was NO EVIDENCE OF ABUSE. The kid even lied about his "spanking diary."

That's enough for me to draw a conclusion that there wasn't any abuse.

The kid wasn't scared of his father. Statements were taken that the boy actually threatened to kill his father, in front of witnesses, more than once. Yes, he was slapped for being so disrespectful. IMO While I can't condone it, that does not equal child abuse.

I see why you say what you do, but you really DON'T know for sure... right?

There is not enough information 'documented' for you to 'draw a conclusion', but think what you may.

Common sense should instead draw for you... this didn't happen in a vaccum, something or a combination of things DID cause this to happen. What could that be? We are left to wonder are we not? There is no way for you/we to know who or what the boy was scared of from the tidbits of information that has been documented so far about the family's past... probably alot more that we may never know 100%.

 

[dgfred]

You are right, the boy liked to be loved!

Most people do!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Vince's own mother, the boy's grandmother, when first learning this child confessed to the crime, stated something like, "I was afraid of that. I told them they were too hard on the boy." PERHAPS not exact words, but close.

ALL documents are now sealed. It would be naive to ASSUME there was no abuse because we have no proof, ie FURTHER public statement. The doctors know and so does the family, IF there was abuse.

People say this was like an aberration that a child this young, would kill. One should then ask themselves, IF it's so rare, then why did this happen? Why would this child feel so desparate that he went way beyond and eliminated those around him.

Why?

I don't believe it's desparation to suspect physical and mental abuse. But we'll never know for sure. UNLESS it comes to trial and from what I've seen, that doesn't seem to be what is going to happen.

JMHO
fran

I don't think he was desperate.

I think he was simply that cold and calculating. Maybe he didn't want to follow rules, maybe having his mother breeze back into his life ....he thought living with her would be all carefree...rainbows & candy and he could do whatever he wanted. Maybe it was a little of both.

The kid lured Tim and executed him and why? To eliminate him as a witness. Does that sound like an act of desperation? Does that sound as if he was scared? even a little? Heck no.

Just think about the murders themselves, how gruesome and difficult it would be for a normal person to carry out and watch once...it didn't bother him.....he did it again.
The kid plotted a double murder complete with a bogus alibi & phony suspect car. Then he sat there, cool, calm and collected and spewed lie after lie. There was zero remorse. His only regret.... getting caught. The boy even knew "juvie" could be the consequence. That tells me he weighed it and decided the murders were worth it.

 

[dgfred]

Seems he would have been a perfect candidate for jail then if he was cold, calculating, no remorse, plotted it, carried it out and then repeated. He would be a danger to all around him. Wonder why they decided to let him plea to negligent homicide of only one of the victims??? Wonder why they decided to let him live with his mom??? Wonder why he will be treated instead of incarcerated??? Hmmmmm, maybe things are not as clear cut as you see them in your perceptions of the boy.

 

[jjenny]

Seems he would have been a perfect candidate for jail then if he was cold, calculating, no remorse, plotted it, carried it out and then repeated. He would be a danger to all around him. Wonder why they decided to let him plea to negligent homicide of only one of the victims??? Wonder why they decided to let him live with his mom??? Wonder why he will be treated instead of incarcerated??? Hmmmmm, maybe things are not as clear cut as you see them in your perceptions of the boy.

He was 8 years old.
Do you really think they would do the same thing if he was older than 8? If he were 15-16 I bet they'd be trying him as an adult.

 

[sdn8tv]

There wasn't a mark on the child. This is evidenced in his detention intake paperwork. Not a single bruise.

If he was bruised or had suffered multiple fractures over the years the defense would have been shouting it from the roof tops. Matter of fact...the defense stated there was NO EVIDENCE OF ABUSE. The kid even lied about his "spanking diary."

That's enough for me to draw a conclusion that there wasn't any abuse.

The kid wasn't scared of his father. Statements were taken that the boy actually threatened to kill his father, in front of witnesses, more than once. Yes, he was slapped for being so disrespectful. IMO While I can't condone it, that does not equal child abuse.

Draw whatever conclusion you feel you need. You simply do not know this family.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

There wasn't a mark on the child. This is evidenced in his detention intake paperwork. Not a single bruise.

If he was bruised or had suffered multiple fractures over the years the defense would have been shouting it from the roof tops. Matter of fact...the defense stated there was NO EVIDENCE OF ABUSE. The kid even lied about his "spanking diary."

That's enough for me to draw a conclusion that there wasn't any abuse.

The kid wasn't scared of his father. Statements were taken that the boy actually threatened to kill his father, in front of witnesses, more than once. Yes, he was slapped for being so disrespectful. IMO While I can't condone it, that does not equal child abuse.

Abuse is not just physical. Much abuse has no physical signs. Don't even get me started on this.

imvho

 

[Linda7NJ]

Seems he would have been a perfect candidate for jail then if he was cold, calculating, no remorse, plotted it, carried it out and then repeated. He would be a danger to all around him. Wonder why they decided to let him plea to negligent homicide of only one of the victims??? Asked answered Wonder why they decided to let him live with his mom??? I've answered no less than FIVE times Wonder why he will be treated instead of incarcerated??? Because he's a child Hmmmmm, maybe things are not as clear cut as you see them in your perceptions of the boy.

my responces are in red

 

[Linda7NJ]

Abuse is not just physical. Much abuse has no physical signs. Don't even get me started on this.

imvho

Give me a break. Now you're going to claim he was sexually or mentally abused?

 

[dgfred]

He was 8 years old.
Do you really think they would do the same thing if he was older than 8? If he were 15-16 I bet they'd be trying him as an adult.

But the problem is he was 8! How can he be this non-remorseful, calculating,
plotting murderer at 8? Regardless of how this happened, his rights have been trampled from the start... if he WAS an adult he most likely would have gotten off anyway after the way this case was handled. If the same things took place they would hardly have a case to try. They botched it.

Those closest to the case have realized he is not these things so he has been allowed to stay with his mother, will get intensive treatment (inpatient or out) and will not be put in jail. So those that have seen the reports and have investigated his past realize he is no danger to anyone at the present time.