AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[oceanblueeyes]

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/doc...ow Juvenile to Attend School in Detention.pdf

The boy will now be receiving his education full-time in the detention center rather than at home.

I find that quite interesting, Trino. The doctors have long evaluated him so if he is not a threat to himself or to the public at large then why isn't he back in the public school system this year?

That was one of the issues that were of concern and why the Judge would not let him return to public school because at that time they did not have the final assessment on this kid.

imo

 

[azmama]

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/doc...ow Juvenile to Attend School in Detention.pdf

The boy will now be receiving his education full-time in the detention center rather than at home.

This is not new, he was done for the summer, it is merely a continuation of what was already being done, restarting for the school year.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is not new, he was done for the summer, it is merely a continuation of what was already being done, restarting for the school year.

Why would they continue with school detention.

One of the purposes of the evaluations on this kid was to see if he was a danger to himself or others and they were wanting to know that before the school system would consider having him return.

The evaluations are over. All sides know the results.

Why again school detention and not returned to public schools which was one of the purposes for the evaluations in the first place?:waitasec:

imo

 

[mostlylurking]

Why would they continue with school detention.

One of the purposes of the evaluations on this kid was to see if he was a danger to himself or others and they were wanting to know that before the school system would consider having him return.

The evaluations are over. All sides know the results.

Why again school detention and not returned to public schools which was one of the purposes for the evaluations in the first place?:waitasec:

imo

Because they haven't had the sentencing yet.
After the plea bargain, they asked for more evals. Those are done, yes, but everyone is still trying to decide the best course & there won't be any decisions until September some time. So, in the mean time, the new school year has started & he has to get some kind of an education somewhere, so the part-time gig @ the detention center seems to be the only plan at present.

 

[Knox]

I have not read all the threads here, but am familiar with the bones of the case. I am wondering how beneficial it would be to put this boy back in a public school setting? I have seen some pretty ugly scenerios involving parents who protest certain children's rights to be in school and it was over issues much smaller than what he was said to have done. Those same parent's talked openly about the issue in front of their children (sadly) which caused them to "repeat" the issue at school to their peers.

Is the boy going to an area where this case is unknown? Would the school district have to keep the details of his case confidential or is there some sort of "public right to know" disclosure? Just thinking out loud ...

 

[mostlylurking]

Knox -- there is not really discussion of putting him in a public school setting right now. With sentencing having not happened & no decisions made around what that may or may not be, public school at this point is not even a discussion point. This issue was just about him being part-time or full-time at the local detention center in their school setting. He is remaining part-time there and he is not actually getting school credit for it.

 

[Knox]

Knox -- there is not really discussion of putting him in a public school setting right now. With sentencing having not happened & no decisions made around what that may or may not be, public school at this point is not even a discussion point. This issue was just about him being part-time or full-time at the local detention center in their school setting. He is remaining part-time there and he is not actually getting school credit for it.

Thank you for clarifying. I take it he is with his mother in another State other than AZ? Guess I need to go back and read before posting any further comments.

 

[southcitymom]

Thank you for clarifying. I take it he is with his mother in another State other than AZ? Guess I need to go back and read before posting any further comments.

I appreciated your comments, Knox. I have spent some time considering whether it would even be possible for this child to be assimilated into a public school with any success....it just seems that his history would follow him and that could raise a whole host of problems.

Even though that's not on the table for him right now, I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking about it.

Yes - my understanding is that he's with his Mom in a different state - I don't recall off the top of my head what state that is.

 

[mostlylurking]

Thank you for clarifying. I take it he is with his mother in another State other than AZ? Guess I need to go back and read before posting any further comments.

With his mom and his grandmother (father's mother) in the town this all happened. They are limited on travel within just a couple of counties, unless there is prior permission.

I would guess that public school for him in that small town will never happen again. Don't know if he'll ever be allowed to have anonymity in another town where with therapy he may be able to get back to some aspect of normalcy. That is part of what everyone is waiting for via the sentencing, I guess.

 

[Trino]

IMO the boy's background would somehow follow him, despite attempts to keep this secret. I know I would not allow my child to attend school with him, and I believe most parents would feel the same. As a parent, my responsibility would be to protect my own.

This boy IMO will have difficulty forming relationships, since he has no peer interaction, and we all know how important peers are as kids reach pre-teen and teen years. I just cannot see the solution being for him to stay at home with mom. I think it would have been better for his mental health and well-being if he had been incarcerated.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have not read all the threads here, but am familiar with the bones of the case. I am wondering how beneficial it would be to put this boy back in a public school setting? I have seen some pretty ugly scenerios involving parents who protest certain children's rights to be in school and it was over issues much smaller than what he was said to have done. Those same parent's talked openly about the issue in front of their children (sadly) which caused them to "repeat" the issue at school to their peers.

Is the boy going to an area where this case is unknown? Would the school district have to keep the details of his case confidential or is there some sort of "public right to know" disclosure? Just thinking out loud ...

I would think surely the parental rights to know would far outweigh his rights to privacy. He will be on probation and in the system just like others and their acts are not kept confidential.

So wherever he goes, even if it is out of state, I would think if he returns to public schools then surely the school system would have to inform the parents that he is there. Just think of what could happen if he becomes disruptive there against another child and then a parent finds out who he is ,imo, a lawsuit would come quickly against the school system for their failure to notify the parents. I just don't think any school system is going to want to take the chance of keeping this information from the parents.

More and more the school systems are keeping the parents abreast of any issue they may have in their school trying to offset any lawsuit that have resulted in failure to disclose.

Plus, imo, this kid will talk about it wherever he goes anyway. So it is best to be prepared before he arrives at any public school, if that should happen.


JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is not new, he was done for the summer, it is merely a continuation of what was already being done, restarting for the school year.

Actually the motion is different.

It is not just for part time enrollment but to go full time at the detention center.

I would have thought Wood would have motioned for a hearing to be held asking the Judge to return the kid to public school since school was beginning.

imo

 

[Knox]

Thanks all ... I know this case has been heated at times and members have differing views on guilt/innocence. I myself am conflicted, it is my instinct to protect a child, especially one as young as he, just so hard to bend my mind around the facts in this case. In a nutshell, I'd like to hear what your opinions are regarding this child's future, what will he be like at age 18 and how will he go forward in life?

 

[colette]

Thanks all ... I know this case has been heated at times and members have differing views on guilt/innocence. I myself am conflicted, it is my instinct to protect a child, especially one as young as he, just so hard to bend my mind around the facts in this case. In a nutshell, I'd like to hear what your opinions are regarding this child's future, what will he be like at age 18 and how will he go forward in life?

You are so right about this case being "heated". My guess is that the cold blooded remorseless double murderer will not have a rosey future, nor will those who love him.

 

[mostlylurking]

You are so right about this case being "heated". My guess is that the cold blooded remorseless double murderer will not have a rosey future, nor will those who love him.

Colette --
I agree, this case has been heated. As such, it would be appreciated if you could qualify "cold blooded remorseless double murderer" as your opinion of this child, not as fact. Let's remember he only pleaded to negligent homicide of one person. Quite frankly, none of us know the real truth of that day. Nor do we know the real truth of any of the discussions which committed everyone - even a child whose competence to even understand the paper he was signing had not been determined -- to a plea agreement.

I do agree that the future of this child may be less than rosey -- though I hold out hope for healing of everyone involved.

 

[Trino]

I wonder if anyone on his father's side of the family have visited him. I know a grandmother is involved, but I'm guessing it's not his father's mother. It certainly appears the boy being raised by two women with no male figure other than at the detention center. Again, what future with no male figure and no peers? IMO the boy is going to have a tough time.

 

[mostlylurking]

I wonder if anyone on his father's side of the family have visited him. I know a grandmother is involved, but I'm guessing it's not his father's mother. It certainly appears the boy being raised by two women with no male figure other than at the detention center. Again, what future with no male figure and no peers? IMO the boy is going to have a tough time.

He is living with his mother in is PATERNAL grandmother's home. His grandmother and grandfather are not married anymore. His PATERNAL grandfather does do things with him.

He does have some peers who know the situation and still allow their children to be around him. They are few, true, but they are there.

 

[Pandora]

I would think surely the parental rights to know would far outweigh his rights to privacy. He will be on probation and in the system just like others and their acts are not kept confidential.

So wherever he goes, even if it is out of state, I would think if he returns to public schools then surely the school system would have to inform the parents that he is there. Just think of what could happen if he becomes disruptive there against another child and then a parent finds out who he is ,imo, a lawsuit would come quickly against the school system for their failure to notify the parents. I just don't think any school system is going to want to take the chance of keeping this information from the parents.

More and more the school systems are keeping the parents abreast of any issue they may have in their school trying to offset any lawsuit that have resulted in failure to disclose.

Plus, imo, this kid will talk about it wherever he goes anyway. So it is best to be prepared before he arrives at any public school, if that should happen.


JMO

Laws are different from state to state. In GA, neither the teachers nor parents were made aware of those w/ police records. Occasionally, even administration was not informed if it was deemed too "prejudicial." For example, I learned after the fact that one of my students was a convicted sex offender. I learned this after he was sent back to juvy for raping another of his sisters on Xmas break. Of course, before Xmas break he was caught climbing into the ceiling of the boys bathroom to peer into the girls bathroom stalls (which I used along w/ many of the students). His punishment for that infraction? 1 day ISS. I did not learn of the "peeping" until he was gone. The admin. did not know to report the incident to his parole officer because we were not permitted to know he was a sex offender!

 

[colette]

Colette --
I agree, this case has been heated. As such, it would be appreciated if you could qualify "cold blooded remorseless double murderer" as your opinion of this child, not as fact. Let's remember he only pleaded to negligent homicide of one person. Quite frankly, none of us know the real truth of that day. Nor do we know the real truth of any of the discussions which committed everyone - even a child whose competence to even understand the paper he was signing had not been determined -- to a plea agreement.

I do agree that the future of this child may be less than rosey -- though I hold out hope for healing of everyone involved.

The kid confessed and LE says evidence points to him, but there are those who think him innocent. I'm not one of them. As I said it's "my guess" in my post so that would include my opinion... so let's not split hairs. Those 2 men are dead and I saw no remorse in the video or in any of his words since the murders. None of that bodes well for the future in my opinion.

 

[mostlylurking]

The kid confessed and LE says evidence points to him, but there are those who think him innocent. I'm not one of them. As I said it's "my guess" in my post so that would include my opinion... so let's not split hairs. Those 2 men are dead and I saw no remorse in the video or in any of his words since the murders. None of that bodes well for the future in my opinion.

Even in the coerced confession, his confession is about finding them after the fact and shooting each one to put them out of their misery - as he was taught to do to an animal if hunting. That in and of itself would fit the negligent homicide plea deal. I took your post to mean it was your guess that his future would not be rosey -- no that it was your guess as to his status as a murderer. Clearly we have different opinions of him as person -- but I do agree that his future will be difficult, no matter what.