AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[Trino]

Laws are different from state to state. In GA, neither the teachers nor parents were made aware of those w/ police records. Occasionally, even administration was not informed if it was deemed too "prejudicial." For example, I learned after the fact that one of my students was a convicted sex offender. I learned this after he was sent back to juvy for raping another of his sisters on Xmas break. Of course, before Xmas break he was caught climbing into the ceiling of the boys bathroom to peer into the girls bathroom stalls (which I used along w/ many of the students). His punishment for that infraction? 1 day ISS. I did not learn of the "peeping" until he was gone. The admin. did not know to report the incident to his parole officer because we were not permitted to know he was a sex offender!

I taught in MN, and the same was true. No teachers were informed of a student's past. Like your example, I later found out I had taught students who were convicted of just about every offense except murder, but I was never privy to the info until they finally were suspended for good.

 

[colette]

Even in the coerced confession, his confession is about finding them after the fact and shooting each one to put them out of their misery - as he was taught to do to an animal if hunting. That in and of itself would fit the negligent homicide plea deal. I took your post to mean it was your guess that his future would not be rosey -- no that it was your guess as to his status as a murderer. Clearly we have different opinions of him as person -- but I do agree that his future will be difficult, no matter what.

So you actually think he just came upon the two men and put them out of their misery? How do you account for the fact that the kid yelled out to the room mate when he was outside talking to his wife? This conflicts with the "stumbled on the dying men theory".

 

[mostlylurking]

So you actually think he just came upon the two men and put them out of their misery? How do you account for the fact that the kid yelled out to the room mate when he was outside talking to his wife? This conflicts with the "stumbled on the dying men theory".

Actually, in all honesty, I don't know to this day what I believe. There have been many many many conflicts in interpretation of the evidence over these months. In the process of it all being "investigated" many of his civil rights were violated to the point that I don't think the real truth of the day is.

Regardless, he was an 8 year old child when it happened. The whole thing was handled pathetically (and is still being handled poorly IMO) and I want to see this child get help -- whether he did it, witnessed it or came upon it after the fact.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You are so right about this case being "heated". My guess is that the cold blooded remorseless double murderer will not have a rosey future, nor will those who love him.

I think cases like this one puts fear in someone, especially parents.

It seems some kids today are killing on a whim and their motives seem to become more and more bizarre to logical sound thinking people.

I don't think anyone wants to have to consider that the boogeyman really can come in any shape and any age.

JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The kid confessed and LE says evidence points to him, but there are those who think him innocent. I'm not one of them. As I said it's "my guess" in my post so that would include my opinion... so let's not split hairs. Those 2 men are dead and I saw no remorse in the video or in any of his words since the murders. None of that bodes well for the future in my opinion.

I saw no remorse either. None, except at the end and that was for himself.

I am still of the belief that this was one of the coldest premeditated crimes I have read in decades.

The excuse that he just came along and took them out to keep them from suffering is just unbelievable. If anything. in his shooting spree he did not mortally wound them and they were left moving, which would necessitate him shooting them in the head to insure they both were dead. That is what hunters do. If the rabbit (etc) is still moving after the hunter has shot them then the hunter aims and shoots them in the head.

And imo that is what he did. He wounded them and then he finished them off just like he was taught when hunting for small game.

His story just did not hold water. Tim most likely had his truck parked in front everyday when he came inside from work. The boy wouldn't be yelling for Tim 2 or 3 houses away just because he saw his truck sitting there and we all know by then Tim Romans was laying face down on the front porch. His time line just doesn't add up and I have always felt that was LEs best evidence. The cell phone exchanges by all parties showed there was no time for some unknown perp to come in and leave and then the boy come find them and do all he said he did and what transpired after he shortly left the premise.

I still believe he got the deal he did because he happened to be the youngest killer in AZ history and maybe even in the country when it comes to double homicide. This boy did not fit into detention confinement due to his young age and he was way too young for adult court. All they can hope for by keeping a very close eye on him and giving him therapy that he will not do this again in the future.

imo

 

[Trino]

The boy will be 10 years old in just a couple of months.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The boy will be 10 years old in just a couple of months.

Yes, he will and even then the average juvenile in detention is at least 12 years old or older.

I read another disheartening case this morning that made me think of this case.

A group of school boys cunningly lured a little 7 year old into the woods and they hung him up by his neck and left him to die. They premeditated this dastardly act yet due to their young ages nothing can be done to them for their deplorable ganging up premeditated crime.

Here is the story.

Boy of seven 'lynched' by gang of schoolchildren with 'homemade noose'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hang-7-year-old-boy-noose.html#ixzz0P7DIPvgl

A gang of schoolboys tried to 'lynch' a seven-year-old with a home-made noose in a park in a chilling echo of the James Bulger case.
Bradley McLachlan was lured to a secluded area by three boys, all under ten, where they had already set up the rope.

They turned on him and pushed his head into the loop, tightened the knot and left him for dead, hovering a few inches above the ground and choking.

Police are appealing for information but admit that even if the boys are caught they are too young to be prosecuted.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hang-7-year-old-boy-noose.html#ixzz0P7DblMT4


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hang-7-year-old-boy-noose.html#ixzz0P7DIPvgl

 

[dgfred]

I saw no remorse either. None, except at the end and that was for himself.

I am still of the belief that this was one of the coldest premeditated crimes I have read in decades.

The excuse that he just came along and took them out to keep them from suffering is just unbelievable. If anything. in his shooting spree he did not mortally wound them and they were left moving, which would necessitate him shooting them in the head to insure they both were dead. That is what hunters do. If the rabbit (etc) is still moving after the hunter has shot them then the hunter aims and shoots them in the head.

And imo that is what he did. He wounded them and then he finished them off just like he was taught when hunting for small game.

His story just did not hold water. Tim most likely had his truck parked in front everyday when he came inside from work. The boy wouldn't be yelling for Tim 2 or 3 houses away just because he saw his truck sitting there and we all know by then Tim Romans was laying face down on the front porch. His time line just doesn't add up and I have always felt that was LEs best evidence. The cell phone exchanges by all parties showed there was no time for some unknown perp to come in and leave and then the boy come find them and do all he said he did and what transpired after he shortly left the premise.

I still believe he got the deal he did because he happened to be the youngest killer in AZ history and maybe even in the country when it comes to double homicide. This boy did not fit into detention confinement due to his young age and he was way too young for adult court. All they can hope for by keeping a very close eye on him and giving him therapy that he will not do this again in the future.

imo

Good to see your same 'old' theories again ...
How can the kid show remorse when he was led into to what he was saying?
His story 'holds water' compared to all of your theories, in fact nobody knows if the cellphone stories are true or not. Ever wonder why an eight year old boy would even think about shooting his parent anyway? The entire process has been a trampling of the boy's rights, even if he did shoot the men... right?

 

[dgfred]

I find that quite interesting, Trino. The doctors have long evaluated him so if he is not a threat to himself or to the public at large then why isn't he back in the public school system this year?

That was one of the issues that were of concern and why the Judge would not let him return to public school because at that time they did not have the final assessment on this kid.

imo

So you actually think parents at any public school will allow the boy to go to their school? The fact that he has lived with his mom ALL THIS TIME show beyond anything else that the judge does not think he is a danger to himself, his mom or anyone else. But that doesn't change the fact that most people, whether informed or not with 'TRUE' facts will not accept this boy back into public school. No matter what exactly happened that tragic day, the boy needs loads of therapy, treatment and love.

 

[Knox]

dgfred ... I have not exactly made up my mind in this case, guilty or innocent. But I have a question for you. Would you take this boy into your home? Just asking because of your capitalized use of the word "True"? I am asking respectfully, not being a smart-a**.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So you actually think parents at any public school will allow the boy to go to their school? The fact that he has lived with his mom ALL THIS TIME show beyond anything else that the judge does not think he is a danger to himself, his mom or anyone else. But that doesn't change the fact that most people, whether informed or not with 'TRUE' facts will not accept this boy back into public school. No matter what exactly happened that tragic day, the boy needs loads of therapy, treatment and love.

Oh I do think the school has the facts that they must deal with. He is guilty of killing Tim Romans so of course the school nor the parents will dismiss that nor should they but it was up to the Judge once he got the psyche evaluation back to determine if it was safe to put him back in public schools.

I would have thought that Wood would have filed a motion for a hearing since the school year was beginning instead of wanting him to go to school at the detention center full time and not part time now.

Being with Ma and Grandma has nothing to do with him being ingratiated among many young children his age.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Good to see your same 'old' theories again ...
How can the kid show remorse when he was led into to what he was saying?
His story 'holds water' compared to all of your theories, in fact nobody knows if the cellphone stories are true or not. Ever wonder why an eight year old boy would even think about shooting his parent anyway? The entire process has been a trampling of the boy's rights, even if he did shoot the men... right?

He was not led when he was simply telling them what he did that day.

Nope but then I don't understand any kids that murder people. But I know kids do kill for a myriad of foolish reasons from not getting to play their favorite video game or because they were told that unthinkable word "no" by their parent or were on restriction for their own bad behaviors. The reasons run the gambit.

Why did these other young kids who premeditated to lynch the little 7 year old boy do what they did? I have no clue but I do know that the little boy will carry emotional and possible physical scars because of it. Evil has no age limit.

imo

 

[dgfred]

dgfred ... I have not exactly made up my mind in this case, guilty or innocent. But I have a question for you. Would you take this boy into your home? Just asking because of your capitalized use of the word "True"? I am asking respectfully, not being a smart-a**.

Yes I would as I feel that my wife and I could bring him up with the love, care, attention and proper environment that a boy needs. Personally I would not see him as a danger to anyone. Plus, my daughter just left for college for the first time last night... miss her already.

 

[southcitymom]

Yes, he will and even then the average juvenile in detention is at least 12 years old or older.

I read another disheartening case this morning that made me think of this case.

A group of school boys cunningly lured a little 7 year old into the woods and they hung him up by his neck and left him to die. They premeditated this dastardly act yet due to their young ages nothing can be done to them for their deplorable ganging up premeditated crime.

Here is the story.

Boy of seven 'lynched' by gang of schoolchildren with 'homemade noose'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hang-7-year-old-boy-noose.html#ixzz0P7DIPvgl

A gang of schoolboys tried to 'lynch' a seven-year-old with a home-made noose in a park in a chilling echo of the James Bulger case.
Bradley McLachlan was lured to a secluded area by three boys, all under ten, where they had already set up the rope.

They turned on him and pushed his head into the loop, tightened the knot and left him for dead, hovering a few inches above the ground and choking.

Police are appealing for information but admit that even if the boys are caught they are too young to be prosecuted.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hang-7-year-old-boy-noose.html#ixzz0P7DblMT4


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hang-7-year-old-boy-noose.html#ixzz0P7DIPvgl

When my Dad was around this age, 8-10, he almost hung his best friend, who would have died with a smile on his face. They were playing cowboys and Indians and my Dad caught him fair and square. Together,they fashioned a noose for the hanging. My grandfather pulled into the driveway just as my Dad was about to kick a box out from under his friend's feet!

I share this story not to make light of what might have happened with the boys in this article and the 7-year-old, but to point out that young children don't always have a firm grasp on what grown-ups see as reality. That's just one of the reasons we don't prosecute them as adults.

 

[dgfred]

Oh I do think the school has the facts that they must deal with. He is guilty of killing Tim Romans so of course the school nor the parents will dismiss that nor should they but it was up to the Judge once he got the psyche evaluation back to determine if it was safe to put him back in public schools.

I would have thought that Wood would have filed a motion for a hearing since the school year was beginning instead of wanting him to go to school at the detention center full time and not part time now.

Being with Ma and Grandma has nothing to do with him being ingratiated among many young children his age.

imo

So the judge has the facts and it is up to him, but there is no way the parents will dismiss the charges against him... Which is it? What would it matter what the judge says? The parents will protest until the stink is too much for any school district. No one minds he is going to school at the detention center, if it would qualify as regular school and he would get the credits. That is the problem, no school will take him and he will not get credit for the detention school...... what a sham! The kids rights have been stomped from the very beginning of this, it is plain to see.
So he can't go in public, can't hang out with kids his own age, can not basically do anything... but he is safe to stay with his mom and grandma (not worried about their safety it seems aye). What a contradiction.
If somehow the mom would have been able to hire a high-profile attorney, this case would have been thrown out altogether imo.

 

[Knox]

Yes I would as I feel that my wife and I could bring him up with the love, care, attention and proper environment that a boy needs. Personally I would not see him as a danger to anyone. Plus, my daughter just left for college for the first time last night... miss her already.

Thanks for giving me an honest answer.

OT; Mine leaves next year, not sure I'm ready for that
Hope you adjust well to her absence :blowkiss:

 

[dgfred]

Thanks for giving me an honest answer.

OT; Mine leaves next year, not sure I'm ready for that
Hope you adjust well to her absence :blowkiss:

You are more than welcome. I don't know what I am going to do, she has basically been my world for almost 19 years.

 

[Fairy1]

Thanks for giving me an honest answer.

OT; Mine leaves next year, not sure I'm ready for that
Hope you adjust well to her absence :blowkiss:

Trust me, you will not be ready!!!! :blowkiss:

IMO, there is NO WAY the "good" people of St. Johns will let this little boy go to public school - no matter what. I really don't believe this dictate has anything to do with him, but is nothing more than bowing to public pressure.

This child is an outcast in his own hometown and nothing good will come of it, IMO. The sooner he can get out of there, the better.

I suppose we will see what they have learned from the evaluations when the sentencing happens. I put no importance on the direction of his education at this point.

Yes, he will soon be 10. He was 8 when the murders happened. Time has passed and I have yet to meet an 8-year-old with the capacity to murder his own father in cold blood.

 

[mysteriew]

Thanks all ... I know this case has been heated at times and members have differing views on guilt/innocence. I myself am conflicted, it is my instinct to protect a child, especially one as young as he, just so hard to bend my mind around the facts in this case. In a nutshell, I'd like to hear what your opinions are regarding this child's future, what will he be like at age 18 and how will he go forward in life?

Kids this age are so hard. I am one of the ones who is not sure of guilt in this case. I do think the child was led in the questioning, both on camera and off. But if he did commit the murders, what does the future hold for him? LOL, it is hard to say. What a child is like at the age of 8, and what he will be like at 18 is often so different that kids will sometimes seem almost like different kids. I believe we are shaped both by genetics and by experience and environment. And he cannot escape his genetic makeup. But experience can be different for different kids, even two kids in the same family. So experience tells him that he murdered and it is a big deal and he got into a whole lot of trouble. And that it interfered with his life, and limits were placed on him because of it. His environment has changed a lot. Instead of living with his father, he is now living with his mother. Does that mean that he will get more 'mothering' and attention and love? Will he get consistent discipline? I don't know. He will be getting counseling too. I think his history means that growing up will be harder for him, everybody won't be nice to him. Someday he may also realize the magnitude of what he has done, and could develop the attitude that he has to live up to the reputation of being a bad boy that he and others think he is.

I think it could go either way. But to some extent we are all shaped by our past, and so things don't look good for him.

 

[dgfred]

The worst part of this whole thing to me is even if the boy did the entire shooting... being 8+ years old at the time (juvenile) the public should NOT have ever seen his face (video) and should NOT have ever known his name. These things were completely opposite of the way the rest of the nation tries to handle these kinds of cases. Once those things happened the public's
perception of the little boy was forever tainted, and his rights were violated.
This continued with the boy (juvenile) still signing a plea deal (another violation), not getting any credit for schooling (another) and even stinkier is the prosecutions false filing in an attempt to get the boy back into detention (really an ethical/misconduct type of violation). Civil rights gurus should be all over this 'case' imo.