Back to the Beginning: Where Might Kyron Be?

[Oriah]

I had to show it upon re-boarding the ship in Mexico. I don't remember if I had to show it upon arrival on the ship in the beginning -- I probably did.

I doubt I'll ever go on another cruise -- I was so bored! : )

I think you're supposed to call that 'relaxing.'

You must be as hyper as I am. :wave:

 

[sorrell skye]

I thought that as well, especially after looking at the current patterns. I'm not local, but they look to be pretty swift- and with weather, ugh. And the depth is enough to really keep something in motion, even weighed.
I think however, that if that were the case he *might* have eventually washed up slightly south down the coast- there are quite a few bays/coves and sometimes (JMO) bodies and other objects do tend to get whirl-pooled into spots like that. But sometimes it takes a long time, and it's very little remains.

Sorry- hate to type that as well.

I followed the Shantina Smiley/Azriel Carver case a few months ago. IDK if anyone here is familiar with the case. The little boy's body was found washed up on a Puget Sound beach miles from where the family vehicle was abandoned & the ME ruled his death an accidental drowning. AFAIK, the mom's body has still not been found, even after 4 months. If she went into the water, as her son did, her body must have been carried to such a remote location that it may be years before it is discovered (if it ever is), or her remains became entangled on underwater debris, IMO.

That case, and the proximity of the Columbia River to Portland are the two things that lead me to speculate about the possibility that he was put into the river and may have been carried by the currents.

IMO, LE should expand their search to include areas along the Columbia River that a body may likely wash ashore.

 

[LotsaLatte]

I am going to answer the question posed, I would use a dumpster. The fact that Landfill have not been searched for this boy is really upsetting.

BBM: Where? Like behind an Albertson's grocery store or maybe a Fred Meyer store? hmmm.

 

[21merc7]

BBM: Where? Like behind an Albertson's grocery store or maybe a Fred Meyer store? hmmm.

School dumpster if the creepy dude that the older children sighted (early on facebook entries) was the perp. (Or woods.)

 

[human]

1. I am wondering about the river as I have a river very close to my house.

I'm not sure how you would do it here as I'm not sure that the body would just go where I want it to go-out of sight.

Locals have said that the water is cold, which adds a dimension of concealing ability as the body wouldn't fill up with gases and float as readily, I imagine.

So would it be easy to throw a body in the river somewhere and have it float away?

I would think it would be better in a container, but then again, the problem of making sure ti goes away.

2. Are the dumpsters in that area locked? They are where I live as garbage costs a lot of money here. We pay for it ourselves instead of it being a tax and automatic.

 

[Aedrys]

I'm starting to wish Tim Miller and Equusearch could travel to Oregon and start looking. I know Kyron's family would be more than willing to work with them, and maybe they could help find him. I'm wondering why LE hasn't done more searches and just one search do over. That doesn't make me feel very good.

And I personally still think they need to look watery places, like lakes and rivers. I still think she wouldn't risk a grave being found so easily. It seems like she's pretty darn sure that he'll never be found. If he is, I see that as the only thing that will make her break.

 

[Oriah]

1. I am wondering about the river as I have a river very close to my house.

I'm not sure how you would do it here as I'm not sure that the body would just go where I want it to go-out of sight.

Locals have said that the water is cold, which adds a dimension of concealing ability as the body wouldn't fill up with gases and float as readily, I imagine.

So would it be easy to throw a body in the river somewhere and have it float away?

I would think it would be better in a container, but then again, the problem of making sure ti goes away.

2. Are the dumpsters in that area locked? They are where I live as garbage costs a lot of money here. We pay for it ourselves instead of it being a tax and automatic.

VERY much depends on the river. It looks to me like the Columbia (just from paper water currents) has a strong and consistent current- depending slightly on weather, rain, melt, etc. But I wouldn't think you could just pitch a body in and 'expect' it to get washed out to sea, kwim? Way too many variables for my comfort zone, were I to want to dump a body.

I would think a container would likely carry it farther without becoming tangled (a container like a rubbermaid, not a sack or cloth) but it would also contain all of the evidence...which I would also think would not be desireable. Exposure to water and everything in it does destroy a lot.

A weighted or tied container or body would keep it in one spot, and I suppose if it stayed out of sight for long enough, the evidence would erode as well...but then where would one dump a weighted container in the Columbia? You'd want it past the more northern encumbrances so it would not get hung up, so closer to the sea. If you were following 1-5........hmm.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm starting to want Tim Miller and Equusearch to start looking. I know Kyron's family would be more than willing to work with them, and maybe they could help find him. I'm wondering why LE hasn't done more searches and just one search do over. That doesn't make me feel very good.

And I personally still think they need to look watery places, like lakes and rivers. I still think she wouldn't risk a grave being found so easily. It seems like she's pretty darn sure that he'll never be found. If he is, I see that as the only thing that will make her break.

Seeing how both parents are insisting he is alive and will be home soon, I can't see them agreeing to any search that would be performed to locate his body.

 

[Oriah]

I'm starting to want Tim Miller and Equusearch to start looking. I know Kyron's family would be more than willing to work with them, and maybe they could help find him. I'm wondering why LE hasn't done more searches and just one search do over. That doesn't make me feel very good.

And I personally still think they need to look watery places, like lakes and rivers. I still think she wouldn't risk a grave being found so easily. It seems like she's pretty darn sure that he'll never be found. If he is, I see that as the only thing that will make her break.

I'm sure TES is waiting for an ok from LE. And LE may be waiting for a more narrow search area in order to ask.
Unfortunately, lots of MP's in the country.

They generally try to conserve resources, so that search teams are not wasting their time and energy on wild goose chases.

I, too, see evidence being what breaks TH. Or perhaps a meltdown.

 

[Aedrys]

Seeing how both parents are insisting he is alive and will be home soon, I can't see them agreeing to any search that would be performed to locate his body.

I'm not sure, after the last presser, that that's still true. I think they are aware that he might be dead. It might be too soon to bring in Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch, but I doubt they'd behave the Anthony's and insist he only look for a live body, then lambast him when he dares to go look for a dead one.

I would think they would want any help they can to get Kyron back home no matter what condition he's in.

 

[Oriah]

Seeing how both parents are insisting he is alive and will be home soon, I can't see them agreeing to any search that would be performed to locate his body.

They might.

But either way, I can see them listening to LE's advice. And until LE has a good lead for a search area, they're not going to utilize those resources aimlessly, I don't think.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

School dumpster if the creepy dude that the older children sighted (early on facebook entries) was the perp. (Or woods.)

Hi 21merc7, can you tell me more about the creepy dude the older kids sighted? Was it before or after K disappeared? I would imagine that LE would have followed it up however, I am aware that they too, can get tunnel vision. TIA

 

[cluciano63]

I guess I am not understanding why LE would have any objection to organized professional search groups getting involved...I think the parents have to ask for TM's help-would LE say no?

As it is I fear some poor citizen minding their own business will come across Kyron's body one of these days or months and have that picture in their his/her for the rest of his/her life. Or a worker, as in the case of Kaylegh Wilson, finding her in that drain area.

But then again, I don't think Equifax will search without some kind of a targeted area and LE would probably say they have cleared the area by the school.

 

[revampz]

At the beginning i thought he was dead, then after reading press releases etc thought he may be alive......I am back to thinking he may be dead....

The fact that she is not speaking makes me think she is fairly confident he wont be found and therefore not speaking may just see her get away with it....

however I just cant bring my head around her actually killing him........I can understand a coverup of an accident.......but a planned killing of a child just seems so ......(havent found the words)..........and this whole situation just seems so planned......in fact that is one thing I am certain of........this situation has been planned. She has been stewing and planning for a while I'd say.....

If she had killed him there has been absolutely no evidence........ie blood....sand in the car, dirt in the car, on clothes etc.........is this also because she has planned well (csi fan) or because the LE did not look into this from the start....

I also think that there is a slight possibility someone in the US or even that state has him locked in a house somewhere.......we have seen that happen before....

The reason I say this is because we know of the landscaper and the MC guy......this woman uses sex and guys (and maybe women haha) I am sure that if she was stewing and planning that there is another one at least she had been in contact with during this time......maybe by a prepaid mobile........and he may be the one who has Kyron.......

she would have been mad to have been in contact with anyone else on her computer and phone.........

It is a mystery but I am sure she is the key..........I keep saying this and thinking this and I would love to know what the LE knew at the beginning for them to say "unique case/situation"..........what was it they found/knew........

 

[cluciano63]

I am still stuck on it being an accident. I am not sold on the preplanning elements as it was too clumsy and her alibi is a joke.

That is, if Terri is involved and I am not totally sold on that either. We either have a mess of an innocent woman (according to her husband and his ex-wife) who doesn't know how to get out of her own way and a predator getting away with murder, or we have a mess of a woman who ran over/fill in the blanks Kyron and then went into a sloppy panic mode to cover up and in spite of herself, has done a pretty good job in the hiding of his body anyway.

And if he is not found and if she didn't tell Dede or anyone else...we may never know.

 

[Oriah]

I guess I am not understanding why LE would have any objection to organized professional search groups getting involved...I think the parents have to ask for TM's help-would LE say no?

As it is I fear some poor citizen minding their own business will come across Kyron's body one of these days or months and have that picture in their his/her for the rest of his/her life. Or a worker, as in the case of Kaylegh Wilson, finding her in that drain area.

But then again, I don't think Equifax will search without some kind of a targeted area and LE would probably say they have cleared the area by the school.

I don't know their reasons either, I just know that still they are saying they have plenty of professional, certified search groups on the case. We have to respect that.

And yes, I would think TES (it's Texas EquuSearch btw: http://texasequusearch.org/)
would want the family to request their help as well as LE's blessing and cooperation. Both usually go hand in hand.

I imagine TES feels that LE has it covered and they are better utilized elsewhere right now- just like many other private SAR teams across the country. Unfortunately, Kyron is not the only person missing.
Not speaking for TES, just MOO.

 

[palladore]

From the Sheriff's office:

Northwest Cornelius Pass Road
Northwest Germantown Road
Northwest Logie Trail Road
Northwest Rocky Point Road
Northwest Skyline Road
Northwest 185th Avenue
Northwest West Union Road
Northwest Springville Road
Bethany Boulevard
Northwest Springville Road
Northwest Newberry Road
Northwest McNamee Road
Highway 30 from Northwest Rock Point to Germantown Road
Northwest Kaiser Road
Northwest Thompson Road
Northwest Laidlaw Road

These may be the roads Terri said she drove around on, as these are the roads the MCSO asked for video from.

If one pulls up Google maps and zooms in close they will see that, in addition to these paved roads, there are dozens upon dozens of dirt roads branching off from the main roads. For those on this thread (not you BeanE) who think that LE should be "searching" for Kyron I ask: Where should LE start? And how many manhours do you estimate that it would take to search a single mile of road, a hundred yards back on both sides? As many locals have pointed out, this is rugged, wooded terrain with thick undergrowth, and deep ravines. Kyron's body could have been dumped anywhere. In this terrain a child’s body could be a foot away from you and hidden from your view. Locating a needle in a haystack would be a piece of cake compared to locating a body in ten square miles of Oregon backcountry.

If LE receives tips that lead them to suspect that Tyron’s body was dumped off a certain stretch of road I am certain they will send out search teams. However for LE to blindly deploy search teams would be, IMO, an irresponsible waste of resources and dollars. Oregon LE has a tons of experience doing wilderness searches. I, for one, trust their judgment as to when it makes sense to undertake an intensive ground search.

This Wikipedia article about Forest Park contains photos that give a good idea of how dense the vegetation is the area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Park_(Portland,_Oregon)

 

[liz b.]

If one pulls up Google maps and zooms in close they will see that, in addition to these paved roads, there are dozens upon dozens of dirt roads branching off from the main roads. For those on this thread (not you BeanE) who think that LE should be "searching" for Kyron I ask: Where should LE start? And how many manhours do you estimate that it would take to search a single mile of road, a hundred yards back on both sides? As many locals have pointed out, this is rugged, wooded terrain with thick undergrowth, and deep ravines. Kyron's body could have been dumped anywhere. In this terrain a child’s body could be a foot away from you and hidden from your view. Locating a needle in a haystack would be a piece of cake compared to locating a body in ten square miles of Oregon backcountry.

If LE receives tips that lead them to suspect that Tyron’s body was dumped off a certain stretch of road I am certain they will send out search teams. However for LE to blindly deploy search teams would be, IMO, an irresponsible waste of resources and dollars. Oregon LE has a tons of experience doing wilderness searches. I, for one, trust their judgment as to when it makes sense to undertake an intensive ground search.

This Wikipedia article about Forest Park contains photos that give a good idea of how dense the vegetation is the area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Park_(Portland,_Oregon)

Did LE indicate that they were financially strapped vis a vis this investigation ? IIRC, didn't they say that they were not seeking more money for this investigation right now,that they didn't need it ? Could swear it was in that last presser...

Yes, the terrain here in the NW can be rugged ; which makes TES more of a viable resource IMO. Drones and horseback riders can be highly effective IMO.

As to an area to start, how about a new search within a 2-3 mile radius of Skyline Elementary ? The place where this child was last seen.....


All JMO

 

[Barry]

My head has been spinning thinking about this. I have it broken down to these alternatives, based on some things:

1. Only TH involved, Kyron deceased. In this scenario, Kyron would likely be within a few miles of the school.

2. TH involved with accomplice (maybe DDS), Kyron deceased. Kyron could be anywhere.

3. TH involved with accomplice (maybe DDS), Kyron alive. Kyron could be anywhere.

4. Someone independent of TH involved, Kyron deceased. Kyron could be anywhere.

5. Someone independent of TH involved, Kyron alive. Kyron could be anywhere.

IMO, The only scenario where it would make sense that he is close to home with any certainty is #1. With any of the others (the way I have them slotted in my head), he could be anywhere (anywhere including within a few miles of the school).

Going through this in my head is sad to me. I can see what LE is up against. I guess it makes sense for them to focus on the scenarios where he is alive.

Again, all MOO and all that.

 

[liz b.]

My head has been spinning thinking about this. I have it broken down to these alternatives, based on some things:

1. Only TH involved, Kyron deceased. In this scenario, Kyron would likely be within a few miles of the school.

2. TH involved with accomplice (maybe DDS), Kyron deceased. Kyron could be anywhere.

3. TH involved with accomplice (maybe DDS), Kyron alive. Kyron could be anywhere.

4. Someone independent of TH involved, Kyron deceased. Kyron could be anywhere.

5. Someone independent of TH involved, Kyron alive. Kyron could be anywhere.

IMO, The only scenario where it would make sense that he is close to home with any certainty is #1. With any of the others (the way I have them slotted in my head), he could be anywhere (anywhere including within a few miles of the school).

Going through this in my head is sad to me. I can see what LE is up against. I guess it makes sense for them to focus on the scenarios where he is alive.

Again, all MOO and all that.

Respectfully,

#6 Kyron lured by a pedophile,dumped in one of the ravines in the woods near Skyline Elementary School

# 7. Kyron abducted,killed, buried,or in someone's shed, in the area of Skyline Elementary school


All JMO