Bad News or Overdramatization?

[FlowerChild]

CPS has already SAID that ALL 462 Children from the FLDS that were removed from their parent's custody are healthy and accounted for. I don't know WHICH children these two boys are, but IF they were turned over to CPS, CPS has them. Perhaps CPS doesn't WANT this particular mother to know precisely where the boys are? Perhaps CPS isn't even sure the two boys she says are her sons, are really her sons? Perhaps there are signs of physical ABUSE with her sons?

This was too big and too important, and too scrutinized by the WORLD for CPS to have "lost" two children. These boys are in CPS custody in one of the shelters - and if they are ill, they are getting medical treatment..probably the BEST medical treatment possible. With 462 kids from newborn up to 18 there is ALWAYS going to be at least a few kids that are sick with SOMETHING - they will be fine - they are being VERY CLOSELY monitored almost non-stop - I don't think TX is gonna screw this up by missing even a TINY detail. I am NOT worried that CPS is "losing" children ... but I am worried that the FLDS has "lost" a few children.

Funny how it's OK (private business, you know) to dump your boys on the road outside town when they are 15 or 16 but if CPS takes your boys to STOP this dumping from happening you turn around and begin screaming to the heavens about "the lost children".

These people cannot have it BOTH WAYS. You cannot DUMP BOYS one day and then complain about someone else taking them the next. Either you WANT the boys - (all of them) - or you DON'T. They aren't puppies, parents can't just keep the pick of the litter and dump the rest.

My Opinion

 

[Leila]

May I ask y'all to take a leap and imagine that CPS has lost two of the children? It is not unheard of for that to happen - and I feel sure CPS was not entirely ready for the onslaught of charges.

If CPS had lost two children, would y'all feel any sympathy at all for the children and their mothers or would you just say its their own fault?

How would anyone ever prove that CPS lost two children?

The FLDS mothers have created this mess by refusing to cooperate with CPS in the first place. They refused to give names, dates of birth, and could not/would not produce any documentation to identify children.

Where's the proof that these two children ever existed, were removed by CPS, and are now lost?

Warren Jeffs preached to his followers that it's ok to lie to the enemy, and it appears the FLDS is following his command.

 

[southcitymom]

How would anyone ever prove that CPS lost two children?

The FLDS mothers have created this mess by refusing to cooperate with CPS in the first place. They refused to give names, dates of birth, and could not/would not produce any documentation to identify children.

Where's the proof that these two children ever existed, were removed by CPS, and are now lost?

Warren Jeffs preached to his followers that it's ok to lie to the enemy, and it appears the FLDS is following his command.

Uhm, CPS would say "Hey - we've lost some." That has happened before to children in the foster system - though no one usually admits it until the child is dead.

I don't have a hard time believing - due to the confusion surrounding the situation - that there are FLDS mothers who don't know where the heck their kids are and that communication between the mothers and CPS might not be terrific. I don't even find it a tiny stretch to believe that.

 

[TGIRecovered]

Mysteriew, do you think I should start a seperate "Lost Boys" thread to discuss FLDS boys in general, or is it okay to discuss all of the boys on this one? I don't want to mess up your thread about the two boys whose "mothers" say they are missing.

 

[mysteriew]

Mysteriew, do you think I should start a seperate "Lost Boys" thread to discuss FLDS boys in general, or is it okay to discuss all of the boys on this one? I don't want to mess up your thread about the two boys whose "mothers" say they are missing.

LOL, TGRI I'm not the boss.

My original intention on this thread was to have a place to put the FLDS claims for discussion. So if we continue in that vein, then probably a separate thread for the lost boys. They certainly deserve their own thread. There is a lot of info on them and hopefully will soon be more info about them.

 

[mysteriew]

Azar said that six children remain in area hospitals, where they are being treated for illnesses such as ear infections. Three other children were treated and released.
TRLA praised CPS on Monday for setting up a supervised visiting schedule for parents whose children are being treated at Shannon West Texas Memorial Hospital.
Azar said all children are accounted for and caseworkers each have been assigned 15 children to represent. Arrangements also are being made that will allow mothers to visit their children while in foster care, he said.
http://origin.sltrib.com/faith/ci_9091635

FLDS is also disputing the number of pregnant teens. They are alleging that some of the alleged teens are actually in their mid to upper 20's.

 

[golfmom]

Well, if these folks quit changing their names and ages . . . . .

 

[FlowerChild]

Mysteriew, do you think I should start a seperate "Lost Boys" thread to discuss FLDS boys in general, or is it okay to discuss all of the boys on this one? I don't want to mess up your thread about the two boys whose "mothers" say they are missing.

I created a thread "The Lost Boys Of The FLDS"
It's very sad that people can be prosecuted for abandoning or mistreating their pets or livestock, but not for throwing away a CHILD. They make these boys dependent upon them for everything, deny them education and stunt their maturity - only to throw them away like a used coffee cup with no warning - toss them into a world they have been systematically denied/forbidden access to their entire lives - abandoning them with no more than the clothes on their backs.

Even when we release long-term PRISONERS (convicted criminals) we allow them a phone call, give them a bus ticket, provide them with shoes and a couple of changes of new clothes and give them enough money to get a cheap room and some food for a week or two. And they DO have access to help/counseling and FREE resources.

We are pretty dismal if we sit back and silently CONDONE treating a convicted murderer BETTER than an innocent BOY excommunicated by the FLDS because the FLDS HIDES behind "religion" and "Church Membership".

My Opinion

 

[Leila]

Azar said that six children remain in area hospitals, where they are being treated for illnesses such as ear infections. Three other children were treated and released.
TRLA praised CPS on Monday for setting up a supervised visiting schedule for parents whose children are being treated at Shannon West Texas Memorial Hospital.
Azar said all children are accounted for and caseworkers each have been assigned 15 children to represent. Arrangements also are being made that will allow mothers to visit their children while in foster care, he said.
http://origin.sltrib.com/faith/ci_9091635

FLDS is also disputing the number of pregnant teens. They are alleging that some of the alleged teens are actually in their mid to upper 20's.

I think the FLDS is purposely trying to create a problem where no problem exists. The CPS seems to be confident they've accounted for all children and none are lost. I'd believe CPS over the FLDS, who are in an adversarial position to begin with.

 

[mysteriew]

I think the FLDS is purposely trying to create a problem where no problem exists. The CPS seems to be confident they've accounted for all children and none are lost. I'd believe CPS over the FLDS, who are in an adversarial position to begin with.

I also believe the CPS over the FLDS. But out of fairness, I also believe we do have to look at the FLDS complaints. And watch over the CPS.

However, what I am seeing is that the FLDS is doing a lot of complaining and overdramatization. And that they believe they can issue demands and that those demands should be met immediately. I am seeing a lot of pity party, but little substance in the complaints.

The only issue I have so far is probably more of a tactical issue. Evidently there are 6 kids in the hospital. And CPS has been slow about letting media know about that. While I believe the kids were probably hospitalized in an abundance of caution, by not letting media know about it CPS set themselves up for the FLDS to use that against them. In defense of CPS though, I also believe they pretty much have their hands full with the kids and making arrangements. So their first priority should be the kids- not the media, not the parents, and not responding to the FLDS complaints.

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

Wouldn't the HIPAA (hope I've got the acronym right) actually forbid the information about hospitalization being released?

 

[legallee]

Wouldn't the HIPAA (hope I've got the acronym right) actually forbid the information about hospitalization being released?

CPS isn't under the HIPPA laws, only the Hospitals and Clinics, so they could tell the info.

 

[Vegas Bride]

CPS isn't under the HIPPA laws, only the Hospitals and Clinics, so they could tell the info.

When I worked for the department of mental health, hippa was very important and we would never be allowed to give out information.

VB

 

[mysteriew]

When I worked for the department of mental health, hippa was very important and we would never be allowed to give out information.

VB

HIPPA is taken seriously in the medical arena. Dept. of Mental Health falls under the medical arena. CPS falls under protection. And anyway, the parent or guardian can release the info. CPS is the temporary guardians at present. So yes, they could release the info, and have released the info now.

 

[LinasK]

I just read an article that stated generally what the illnesses were and they were minor- ear infections and respiratory illnesses I think. One girl also did just give birth.

 

[mollymalone]

I just read an article that stated generally what the illnesses were and they were minor- ear infections and respiratory illnesses I think. One girl also did just give birth.

There were those few who had the chicken pox also.

 

[mysteriew]

Salt Lake City attorney Rod Parker accused the department of putting out "misleading information" to malign the polygamous sect.

snip... "That makes some of the children more susceptible to broken bones," Parker said. "The mothers told CPS about that when they were taken in. They've known all along that the reason they might see higher incidence of broken bones was due to this condition. They have no evidence to support the implication it is due to child abuse."
http://origin.sltrib.com/news/ci_9106612

Brittle bones, is that a genetic condition?

I think the alleged mothers saying the kids have brittle bones gives an indication that they were being questioned about multiple fractures on a child. And the way the attorney talks, there are "several".

I notice the attorneys are not addressing the sexal abuse of the boys directly.

 

[mysteriew]

I did some checking around. There is a disease called brittle bone disease, osteogenesis imperfecta that does cause fractures in children. So if it is proven that the kids have this, then it could explain the fractures.

However, should note- it is a rare genetic disease. And the attorneys have said there are "several" of the children with this disease.


http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/brittlebones.htm

 

[mysteriew]

A judge ordered that the baby boy born to a teenager taken from a polygamist sect's ranch in West Texas be placed in state custody, according to documents released Thursday.

Texas District Judge Barbara Walther signed the order Wednesday giving the state custody of the 1-day-old infant born to a teen believed to be 15 or 16 years old.

The girl has claimed to be 18 and based on a bishop's record used during the custody hearing two weeks ago, she would be 18 now. But officials believe she is younger and placed her in foster care with other children taken from the ranch.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5747774.html

Even though the CPS believes she is under 18, the Bishop's record lists her age as 18. Which is an issue only in that CPS has taken her into custody. However, besides the newborn, she also has a 20 month old baby. Am I calculating correctly to believe that she was probably under the age of 16 when she conceived the first child?

 

[Leila]

A judge ordered that the baby boy born to a teenager taken from a polygamist sect's ranch in West Texas be placed in state custody, according to documents released Thursday.

Texas District Judge Barbara Walther signed the order Wednesday giving the state custody of the 1-day-old infant born to a teen believed to be 15 or 16 years old.

The girl has claimed to be 18 and based on a bishop's record used during the custody hearing two weeks ago, she would be 18 now. But officials believe she is younger and placed her in foster care with other children taken from the ranch.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/5747774.html

Even though the CPS believes she is under 18, the Bishop's record lists her age as 18. Which is an issue only in that CPS has taken her into custody. However, besides the newborn, she also has a 20 month old baby. Am I calculating correctly to believe that she was probably under the age of 16 when she conceived the first child?

It sounds like the girl was probably about 15 years old when she conceived the now 20-month-old child. 20 months, plus 9 months for a normal pregnancy, would be 29 months subtracted from 18, would be 15 years, 7 months. If records later prove that the girl is now under 18 - perhaps 17 soon to be 18 - she was likely 15.