GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #1

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  • #801
I was leaning more towards $100,000 to $200,000 of that money that should have been mine, and now me and baby's daddy are having your grandchild, and need that money to start our lives together as a family.

Give me my money or you know what it do!
 
  • #802
Indulgent parents? Spoiled kids. Ending in murder over money.
Combined with shocking disposal of loving parent.
Yes. It's shocking, regardless of your religious beliefs, even if you have none.
To murder your own Mother, then strip her bare, and callously arrange her dead body {which must still have been pliable}

Into this suitcase, with her legs wrapped around her neck. Leaves little to the imagination. I don't even think that Any horror show, or even the brutal killers of ISIS has come up with such a way to desecrate a woman.
 
  • #803
I was leaning more towards $100,000 to $200,000 of that money that should have been mine, and now me and baby's daddy are having your grandchild, and need that money to start our lives together as a family.

Give me my money or you know what it do!
So the "what it do" equals her attitude, and not what money can buy???
 
  • #804
Indulgent parents? Spoiled kids. Ending in murder over money.
Combined with shocking disposal of loving parent.
Yes. It's shocking, regardless of your religious beliefs, even if you have none.
To murder your own Mother, then strip her bare, and callously arrange her dead body {which must still have been pliable}

Into this suitcase, with her legs wrapped around her neck. Leaves little to the imagination. I don't even think that Any horror show, or even the brutal killers of ISIS has come up with such a way to desecrate a woman.

You put so eloquently into words what I, and probably many others are thinking. I lost my Mom to a sudden illness at 20 and would do anything to have her back. How could a teenager kill her own Mom, especially one who seemed to do nothing but love and support her? So tragic. So needless.


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  • #805
On a most serious note, I would hope HM would be given the option of the abortion pill and that she would take it. JMO but not wanting to start controversy.
 
  • #806
On a most serious note, I would hope HM would be given the option of the abortion pill and that she would take it. JMO but not wanting to start controversy.

That, or the baby being adopted out to a loving and stable family. Either would be better than having HM raise him/her (if that is even possible, given the almost certainty of a lengthy prison term if not the death penalty).


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  • #807
You can't help but to think the baby is (genetically) doomed with HM and TS as parents. I've been kind of hoping she will miscarry and spare everyone her offspring. Sounds rude, but if I may be honest.... I have thought this.
 
  • #808
You can't help but to think the baby is doomed with HM and TS as parents. I've been kind of hoping she will miscarry and spare everyone her offspring. Sounds rude, but if I may be honest.... I have thought this.

I'm not sure if HM's variety of mental illness/psychopathy is genetic or not. It is a concern, I suppose, but IMO upbringing had a lot to do with how she turned out too.


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  • #809
Sorry, the emoticon I added in my above post disturbs me too. It hints at the violence towards her mother that was "what it do". Seeing even a cartoon emoticon of that kind of abuse of another is upsetting, but it's actually what this case is about. Did Heather know what "it" would do beforehand?
 
  • #810
I googled the "getting money" comment by HM to see if it could possibly be a lyric or something, but no...apparently it is a HM original.

I'm also still struck by TS twitter comment about how he was going to Bali and then put money and diamond images behind it instead of (like someone else mentioned) palm trees, coconuts, drink icons. Money and diamonds?

Bling? delusions of grandeur or a heist?
 
  • #811
Trying to go back to when the news of the murder first broke and trying to figure out where Heather was living, if not at home, just before the Bali trip. ??? Why'd her mother have to track her down and why does it sound as though she hadn't seen her in quite awhile? I don't remember reading anything about what Heather's living situation (or job or school) was just before or after they used her mother's credit card without permission in July. Anybody know?

From this article on August 13, 2014
'She was a vicious little monster': friends warned widow...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-stuffed-suitcase-outside-5-star-hotel.html

"The two had an often tempestuous relationship, recalled close friend Mark Bacharach, and had been fighting prior to the vacation at the luxury St. Regis hotel on the Indonesian island resort."

"But Mrs. Mack tracked down her daughter, and despite the fact she 'barely recognized her anymore' the two set off on the 10-day-plus trip to the other side of the globe, where the 62-year-old ultimately met a grisly end."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tcase-outside-5-star-hotel.html#ixzz3BHOFtRol
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

BBM
 
  • #812
Trying to go back to when the news of the murder first broke and trying to figure out where Heather was living, if not at home, just before the Bali trip. ??? Why'd her mother have to track her down and why does it sound as though she hadn't seen her in quite awhile? I don't remember reading anything about what Heather's living situation (or job or school) was just before or after they used her mother's credit card without permission in July. Anybody know?

Sounds as though she was living in a hotel, presumably in Chicago somewhere, after moving out/getting kicked out of the luxury apartment.


"….. Heather Mack, 19, a college drop out who was 'hanging out with a bad crowd' and had recently moved into a hotel."

"Powers said the calls stopped in June of last year when mother and daughter moved to a luxury apartment in Chicago overlooking Lake Michigan."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-stuffed-suitcase-outside-5-star-hotel.html
 
  • #813
You know, the more I look at that “what it do” statement, the more I wonder if Sheila had not had a 'conversation (?)' with HM and said ..

“Okay ... IF you promise to stay in touch with me, and IF you promise to handle it wisely, I’ll put $10,000/$20,000/$50,000 in an account for you to manage and use. IF it all goes well, I’ll release more money to you. Now, let’s go on vacation and sort this out …”

Then TS rocks up to alleviate HM’s previously-anticipated boredom with her mum and her vacation, and Sheila discovers that once again she has footed the bill for HM’s pursuits ... AND HM is pregnant …. the crapola hits the fan and all deals are off.

Sheila didn't have to give Heather any of the half a million dollars that was left to Heather. Her husband died in 2006 and she received about $350k, Heather received $500k. At the time the house was mortgaged for about $350k. In 2011, a court awarded Sheila the remaining $500k that was intended for Heather. Heather was about 15 years old at the time. Did Sheila need the money in 2011? That is, was the $350k gone after five years, and she needed the remaining money? It would be interesting to read the judgement ... I'm curious on what grounds the money was taken from Heather and given to Sheila. Was the house fully mortgaged and that's why it was sold? How much of the $500k was left after three years (2011-2014)? Did Heather know that her mother had taken control of her inheritance? I have to wonder if Heather believed that if she was pregnant, somehow she could access the money that should have been her inheritance ... did she believe that she could access the money only if her mother vanished?
 
  • #814
moo - i not sure they callously arranged her dead body, imo - the body only bends certain ways, and in a suitcase there would only certain options to get the body to fit in.
 
  • #815
Sheila didn't have to give Heather any of the half a million dollars that was left to Heather. Her husband died in 2006 and she received about $350k, Heather received $500k. At the time the house was mortgaged for about $350k. In 2011, a court awarded Sheila the remaining $500k that was intended for Heather. Heather was about 15 years old at the time. Did Sheila need the money in 2011? That is, was the $350k gone after five years, and she needed the remaining money? It would be interesting to read the judgement ... I'm curious on what grounds the money was taken from Heather and given to Sheila. Was the house fully mortgaged and that's why it was sold? How much of the $500k was left after three years (2011-2014)? Did Heather know that her mother had taken control of her inheritance? I have to wonder if Heather believed that if she was pregnant, somehow she could access the money that should have been her inheritance ... did she believe that she could access the money only if her mother vanished?

I'm not an attorney, but I am dealing with an estate right now. I'm executor of my brother's estate. The court had to award it to me.

Anyway, because Heather was a minor and there was money/property involved- mom pretty much had to be the executor of the estate (well actually anybody can be the executor, but it just makes sense that mom was). Just because there would have been $500,000 in the account doesn't mean that Heather was getting all the $500,000. The dad's debts and other things would have came out of that money. Debts, bill collectors, etc...file claims against that estate. The court makes the decision. It's highly possible that the mortgage company made a claim against the estate.

One example I can give- my brother died owning a car free and clear. That title (or car) had to be added into my brother's estate. The court could have made me sell the car if there were any debts filed against my brother. There wasn't, so it was awarded to me. I received the car title with an attached court paper to it. It had to be re-registered in my name.
Lawyers also can pay their fees with the estate.

You can NOT change a beneficiary of a will (if that person died). Sure you can fight it, but I doubt you will win. Courts usually always side with who ever the beneficiary is listed on the will.
My brother died with his ex wife as his beneficiary of his life insurance. He had been divorced from her for 2 years. She moved on with another man after taking all his stuff in a divorce. She was awarded the full $25,000 of his life insurance. I tried to stop it. The insurance company said they make NO MORAL judgement on whom he would have wanted to leave his life insurance for. The kicker in all this- she didn't have to pay one red cent to his freaking burial. After researching hours and hours on this- there are MANY stories on the net that echo mine. There was a man that was married to his first wife for a year or so. He got remarried and was married for like 20 years to his second wife. Yep, he didn't change his beneficiary. First wife got it all. One thing I should stress tho- some ex's are awarded the right to remain the beneficiary in the divorce agreement. Especially if you've been with your spouse for a long time.

One good positive that came out of my situation- it made all my family recheck their stuff. My one BIL found out his ex wife was still the beneficiary. So I stress to everybody reading this- please check your policies. It never hurts to review them.
 
  • #816
9 years old and Heather couldn't sit still. Is it possible she could have had ADD or ADHD that went untreated and therefore turned into a Behavioral Issue? Or isn't that possible?
I dunno if untreated ADD/ADHD necessarily turns into a behavioral disorder, per se, but I do know that ADD/ADHD can be a precursor to more serious disorders. I was married to a dx'd comorbid ASPD and NPD (antisocial and narcissistic personality disorders) who definitely showed signs of ADD/ADHD at even a preschool age and symptoms of what's now diagnosed as conduct disorder by his early teens (arson, animal cruelty, petty crimes). Kinda wish someone would have clued me in before I married him. ;) I don't personally believe, and this is just opinion, that treating Heather for a hyperactivity disorder would have had great impact in delaying or offsetting a personality disorder. And psychs, for understandable reasons, don't often like to label kids with personality disorders - most cluster B's are very resistant to treatment and come with a lot of (sometimes well deserved) stigma. I'd wager that the overwhelming majority of kids who do have hyperactivity disorders never hurt a fly - I think many, even if left untreated, would likely develop coping mechanisms - even if some of those mechanisms are self-harming.

All JMO
 
  • #817
moo - i not sure they callously arranged her dead body, imo - the body only bends certain ways, and in a suitcase there would only certain options to get the body to fit in.

IMO, stuffing your mothers's body into a suitcase is callous, period, no matter how it's arranged.
 
  • #818
I'm not an attorney, but I am dealing with an estate right now. I'm executor of my brother's estate. The court had to award it to me.

Anyway, because Heather was a minor and there was money/property involved- mom pretty much had to be the executor of the estate (well actually anybody can be the executor, but it just makes sense that mom was). Just because there would have been $500,000 in the account doesn't mean that Heather was getting all the $500,000. The dad's debts and other things would have came out of that money. Debts, bill collectors, etc...file claims against that estate. The court makes the decision. It's highly possible that the mortgage company made a claim against the estate.

One example I can give- my brother died owning a car free and clear. That title (or car) had to be added into my brother's estate. The court could have made me sell the car if there were any debts filed against my brother. There wasn't, so it was awarded to me. I received the car title with an attached court paper to it. It had to be re-registered in my name.
Lawyers also can pay their fees with the estate.

You can NOT change a beneficiary of a will (if that person died). Sure you can fight it, but I doubt you will win. Courts usually always side with who ever the beneficiary is listed on the will.
My brother died with his ex wife as his beneficiary of his life insurance. He had been divorced from her for 2 years. She moved on with another man after taking all his stuff in a divorce. She was awarded the full $25,000 of his life insurance. I tried to stop it. The insurance company said they make NO MORAL judgement on whom he would have wanted to leave his life insurance for. The kicker in all this- she didn't have to pay one red cent to his freaking burial. After researching hours and hours on this- there are MANY stories on the net that echo mine. There was a man that was married to his first wife for a year or so. He got remarried and was married for like 20 years to his second wife. Yep, he didn't change his beneficiary. First wife got it all. One thing I should stress tho- some ex's are awarded the right to remain the beneficiary in the divorce agreement. Especially if you've been with your spouse for a long time.

One good positive that came out of my situation- it made all my family recheck their stuff. My one BIL found out his ex wife was still the beneficiary. So I stress to everybody reading this- please check your policies. It never hurts to review them.

I'm trying to understand the money trail. The lawsuit was filed in 2001. It was settled in 2006, the same year that James Mack died. In 2005 and 2006, he was probably anticipating the settlement, and took out mortgages on the property for $384,000. Sheila received $340,000 in the Will, but that was not enough to cover the mortgage debt. If she and her husband had taken almost $400,000 out of the value of the property in two years, they were probably living the high life for those two years. Five years later, 2011, she was paid the remaining $500,000 from the estate as the sole beneficiary.

If the spending habits of 2005-06 continued through 2007-08, then the house would have been fully mortgaged two years after his death. The $340,000 in the Will would have covered another two years of living with those same spending habits, taking them to 2010. At that time, the house value and the $340,000 would be gone. In 2011, the remaining $500,000 was given to Sheila. In 2013 the house was sold and an apartment was purchased (probably with a mortgage). With spending habits of $150-200k annually, I doubt that there was much left of the estate in 2014. It's also possible that Sheila cut back her expenses, but given the hotel in Bali (rooms from $500-$8000 per night), I doubt it.

"Around $500,000 of the money went to her husband's estate and was designated for their daughter through an earlier will. But in 2011, a judge allowed Ms von Weise-Mack to pay herself the $500,000 as the estate's 'sole beneficiary', meaning the money did not go to her daughter and suspected killer, Heather Mack."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2730590/Police-Room-disagreement-preceded-Bali-killing.html

"But in June 2011, a judge authorized von Wiese-Mack, the executor of her husband’s estate, to pay herself the remaining $500,000 as the estate’s “sole beneficiary.” ... Two years after the settlement, a pair of banks released outstanding mortgages totaling $384,000 on the upscale Oak Park home von Wiese-Mack shared with her daughter. The mortgages were taken out in 2005 and 2006, before James Mack died. ... Von Wiese-Mack eventually sold the Oak Park home last year for $650,000, Cook County records show, and moved to a Chicago high-rise."

"Sheila von Wiese-Mack immediately netted $340,667 after legal fees for her share of the settlement, according to court records. But another $500,000 went to James Mack’s estate."

http://www.suntimes.com/29354459-76...in-a-cruise-line-settlement.html#.U_oFzk10yAh
 
  • #819
"In 2005 and 2006, he was probably anticipating the settlement, and took out mortgages on the property for $384,000."

In 2005 and 2006, it's also likely that they needed extra money for medical expenses and home health care for James. He was in his mid to late 70's, had gone through a septic infection and was using a wheelchair. Even if they took a vacation to Greece during that time, that cost would be minimal compared to medical expenses (even with insurance, in the US). Those expenses would not have continued past his death.
 
  • #820
"In 2005 and 2006, he was probably anticipating the settlement, and took out mortgages on the property for $384,000."

In 2005 and 2006, it's also likely that they needed extra money for medical expenses and home health care for James. He was in his mid to late 70's, had gone through a septic infection and was using a wheelchair. Even if they took a vacation to Greece during that time, that cost would be minimal compared to medical expenses (even with insurance, in the US). Those expenses would not have continued past his death.

The infection was from 2001. If $380,000 was taken from the house value to cover medical expenses, wouldn't that have started in 2001 rather than 2005?
 
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