GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #1

[quesarita]

The infection was from 2001. If $380,000 was taken from the house value to cover medical expenses, wouldn't that have started in 2001 rather than 2005?

In my experience, the process of processing hospital and medical bills, and the insurance coverage can take (at least) a year from date of service. Realizing you need to take out a second mortgage and applying for it takes time also, so 2005 sounds about right for an infection contracted in 2001. Another factor: probable loss of income from James Mack (if he was not already retired). Since Sheila and James had already been married 15 years or so and (apparently) living within their means, it seems completely logical to me that their need for the second mortgage came more from unplanned medical expenses than a sudden desire for a more lavish lifestyle after his illness. IMOO

 

[otto]

In my experience, the process of processing hospital and medical bills, and the insurance coverage can take (at least) a year from date of service. Realizing you need to take out a second mortgage and applying for it takes time also, so 2005 sounds about right for an infection contracted in 2001. Another factor: probable loss of income from James Mack (if he was not already retired). Since Sheila and James had already been married 15 years or so and (apparently) living within their means, it seems completely logical to me that their need for the second mortgage came more from unplanned medical expenses than a sudden desire for a more lavish lifestyle after his illness. IMOO

Were they both teaching at a university? I can't seem to get a fix on what they each did for a living. What I'm thinking is that if either one of them was tenured at a post-secondary institution, they would have had generous benefit packages.

 

[Paulette]

I dunno if untreated ADD/ADHD necessarily turns into a behavioral disorder, per se, but I do know that ADD/ADHD can be a precursor to more serious disorders. I was married to a dx'd comorbid ASPD and NPD (antisocial and narcissistic personality disorders) who definitely showed signs of ADD/ADHD at even a preschool age and symptoms of what's now diagnosed as conduct disorder by his early teens (arson, animal cruelty, petty crimes). Kinda wish someone would have clued me in before I married him. I don't personally believe, and this is just opinion, that treating Heather for a hyperactivity disorder would have had great impact in delaying or offsetting a personality disorder. And psychs, for understandable reasons, don't often like to label kids with personality disorders - most cluster B's are very resistant to treatment and come with a lot of (sometimes well deserved) stigma. I'd wager that the overwhelming majority of kids who do have hyperactivity disorders never hurt a fly - I think many, even if left untreated, would likely develop coping mechanisms - even if some of those mechanisms are self-harming.

All JMO

Have we read that HM exhibited craziness of any kind outside of her life with Shelia?

She quit school after the tenth grade. What's she been up to since? She posted pictures of herself and friends at the hotel drinking champagne & partying - so she has friends that she gets along with. Her psychological problems seem to be with Shelia only - probably related to HM having trouble manipulating Shelia.

 

[quesarita]

Were they both teaching at a university? I can't seem to get a fix on what they each did for a living. What I'm thinking is that if either one of them was tenured at a post-secondary institution, they would have had generous benefit packages.

" By the time he met Von Wiese in the early 1990s, he was already well established as an educator, composer and arranger, a career that originated when he taught jazz studies at Crane junior college, Chicago’s oldest city college."
"Mack moonlighted as an arranger and producer for labels including Chess, Capitol and Columbia, and later served as a guest conductor for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra."
"He already had a son and four daughters by two previous marriages when he married Von Wiese. By that time, Mack was in the twilight of his career and was suffering health problems. "
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/bali-suitcase-murder-troubled-family-life-chicago
"After college, Weise went to work as a researcher for Senator Ted Kennedy.
Later, she worked on marketing projects with Jacqueline Onassis, who was an editor at Doubleday.
When Weise moved to Chicago to pursue a master’s in social work, she landed a job transcribing interviews for Studs Terkel.
Studs, in turn, referred her to novelist Saul Bellow. She studied for ten years under his leadership in a University of Chicago PhD program.
At the university, she met musician James Mack, director of music for Rockefeller Chapel, and a dynamic figure in blues and jazz, who she eventually married."
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/08...ia-daughter-and-daughters-boyfriend-arrested/
Those don't sound like the kind of career path jobs that include tenure or benefits, IMO.

 

[quesarita]

Have we read that HM exhibited craziness of any kind outside of her life with Shelia?

She quit school after the tenth grade. What's she been up to since? She posted pictures of herself and friends at the hotel drinking champagne & partying - so she has friends that she gets along with. Her psychological problems seem to be with Shelia only - probably related to HM having trouble manipulating Shelia.

Quitting school after 10th grade? Drinking champagne (underage) she paid for with a stolen credit card? Hm, she sounds rather delinquent to me, whether or not her "friends" liked her.

 

[quesarita]

Were they both teaching at a university? I can't seem to get a fix on what they each did for a living. What I'm thinking is that if either one of them was tenured at a post-secondary institution, they would have had generous benefit packages.

More:"At Harold Washington College, formerly Loop College, Mr. Mack brought his real-world experience to the classroom, said George M. Williams, a fellow teacher. Mr. Mack earlier taught at Crane Junior College, now Malcolm X College, said another former colleague, Maureen Mullally."
"Although Mr. Mack had plenty of work to keep him busy without his job at City Colleges, "teaching was in his blood," Lewis said."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2006-08-16/news/0608160239_1_mr-mack-classical-music-jazz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Washington_College
I'm pretty sure Sheila met James at Harold Washington because of an earlier report that she studied at "Washington University" but the reporter found no record of her at that university - two different institutions, very different.

 

[otto]

" By the time he met Von Wiese in the early 1990s, he was already well established as an educator, composer and arranger, a career that originated when he taught jazz studies at Crane junior college, Chicago’s oldest city college."
"Mack moonlighted as an arranger and producer for labels including Chess, Capitol and Columbia, and later served as a guest conductor for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra."
"He already had a son and four daughters by two previous marriages when he married Von Wiese. By that time, Mack was in the twilight of his career and was suffering health problems. "
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/bali-suitcase-murder-troubled-family-life-chicago
"After college, Weise went to work as a researcher for Senator Ted Kennedy.
Later, she worked on marketing projects with Jacqueline Onassis, who was an editor at Doubleday.
When Weise moved to Chicago to pursue a master’s in social work, she landed a job transcribing interviews for Studs Terkel.
Studs, in turn, referred her to novelist Saul Bellow. She studied for ten years under his leadership in a University of Chicago PhD program.
At the university, she met musician James Mack, director of music for Rockefeller Chapel, and a dynamic figure in blues and jazz, who she eventually married."
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/08...ia-daughter-and-daughters-boyfriend-arrested/
Those don't sound like the kind of career path jobs that include tenure or benefits, IMO.

I still think that if they needed money for medical expenses in 2001, they would have mortgaged the house then. For example, if James Mack was in a wheelchair and needed a lift to get to the second floor, that cost would have to come out of pocket, but it would still be a medical expense (although not covered by a medical facility). It doesn't take four years to get a mortgage, and no company is going to wait five years to be paid for putting a lift in a private residence. Waiting five years to pay medical expenses sounds like a good way to go deeper into debt, so that doesn't sound right either, especially if he only had to mortgage the house to immediately pay the bills. Mortgage interest rates are probably cheaper than interest on medical bills. Also, if mobility was an issue, common sense suggests they should have sold the house and moved to a place that was more suitable for any issues related to the sepsis. He cut his foot, he developed an infection, he had treatment, and five years later he took a second mortgage on the house. I'm not able to make a connection between medical treatment in 2001 and a second mortgage in 2006.

 

[Quester]

Any chance HM was actually the one who posted the following on TS's FB account and the one about China, ring, money???:

Mon, 7/21/14 “Leaving Aug 4th for Indonesia might not come backkkk” TS wrote on his FB page according to DailyMail.co.uk

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-stuffed-suitcase-outside-5-star-hotel.html

​

 

[Kamille]

I still think that if they needed money for medical expenses in 2001, they would have mortgaged the house then. For example, if James Mack was in a wheelchair and needed a lift to get to the second floor, that cost would have to come out of pocket, but it would still be a medical expense (although not covered by a medical facility). It doesn't take four years to get a mortgage, and no company is going to wait five years to be paid for putting a lift in a private residence. Waiting five years to pay medical expenses sounds like a good way to go deeper into debt, so that doesn't sound right either, especially if he only had to mortgage the house to immediately pay the bills. Mortgage interest rates are probably cheaper than interest on medical bills. Also, if mobility was an issue, common sense suggests they should have sold the house and moved to a place that was more suitable for any issues related to the sepsis. He cut his foot, he developed an infection, he had treatment, and five years later he took a second mortgage on the house. I'm not able to make a connection between medical treatment in 2001 and a second mortgage in 2006.

This local article indicates that the settlement wasn't until 2011 and it was in 2012 when Sheila was awarded the half million from JM's estate.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/08...li-received-840k-from-cruise-line-settlement/

Also, I believe I read somewhere that JM's problems took some time from the time he cut his foot on the cruise ship to the time he developed sepsis to the time he eventually lost the use of his foot. Not sure how long that was. He may have been continuing to work prior to 2005/2006 when they took out the mortgages or they may have been using savings that they had built up. We do know they were continuing to travel so I don't think he was that incapacitated.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Any chance HM was actually the one who posted the following on TS's FB account and the one about China, ring, money???:

Mon, 7/21/14 “Leaving Aug 4th for Indonesia might not come backkkk” TS wrote on his FB page according to DailyMail.co.uk

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-stuffed-suitcase-outside-5-star-hotel.html

​

I don't think TS was particularly "loyal" to HM and I doubt very much she had access to any of his social media accounts or his phone.

MOO

 

[Paulette]

Quitting school after 10th grade? Drinking champagne (underage) she paid for with a stolen credit card? Hm, she sounds rather delinquent to me, whether or not her "friends" liked her.

My point is that HM doesn't suffer from some debilitating psychological problem, because she doesn't exhibit the problem around her friends - only with Shelia. One would think she'd carry whatever-her-problem is everywhere she went, in every situation.

She's probably been tamed or on her way to being tamed in the Bali jail. The jailers are only going to put up with so much of her bad behavior before putting her in her place - something that Shelia couldn't do. She's going to be 'prisoner # 123' not the primadonna she fancies herself to be.

 

[quesarita]

My point is that HM doesn't suffer from some debilitating psychological problem, because she doesn't exhibit the problem around her friends - only with Shelia. One would think she'd carry whatever-her-problem is everywhere she went, in every situation.

She's probably been tamed or on her way to being tamed in the Bali jail. The jailers are only going to put up with so much of her bad behavior before putting her in her place - something that Shelia couldn't do. She's going to be 'prisoner # 123' not the primadonna she fancies herself to be.

I agree that with you that she does not have a debilitating psychological problem.

 

[quesarita]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/...ed-to-mothers-death-in-bali.html#.U_ojV7xdVe4
"The family’s 2001 Mediterranean cruise changed everything.

James Mack had been a doting father who climbed trees with his daughter, taught her to play soccer and frequently took her to the movies, book stores and candy stores, Heather Mack, then 12, said in a 2008 deposition. But after he cut his foot in the cruise ship pool, Mack developed a staph infection that later infected his bones, attorneys for von Wiese-Mack wrote in a court filing.

That left James Mack partially paralyzed and reliant on a wheel chair. At home he used a walker to get around.

“We never, like, went to the park together anymore,” Heather Mack said in testimony for her family’s wrongful death lawsuit. The family still went to the movies, but “it was really hard. We’d have to drop him off, then park, then come back and wheel him in,” she said.

In the years that followed, the highly regarded composer became sullen, lost interest in his music and turned down composition offers, both von Wiese-Mack and Heather Mack testified. Von Wiese-Mack said her husband was angered by his limited mobility.

And while the family still took exotic vacations, James Mack would brood in his hotel room, while his wife and daughter went sightseeing.

“All he would do is sit. He couldn’t go anywhere. He would sit in the room all day,” Heather Mack testified."
"Trying to heal James L. Mack’s wounds “provided me the richest experience of my life,” von Wiese-Mack wrote."

 

[quesarita]

Again speaking only from personal experience, even outright hospital and doctor's bills are not paid for 100% by insurance. The patient's portion of a lengthy hospital stay plus rehab plus outpatient physical therapy could easily be way more $$ than a cruise trip for a family of 3.

 

[gitana1]

A wise man told me once, for every unkind word or action a person suffers, while in an abusive relationship, that it takes one hundred nice/kinder things to make up for that one nasty word or deed.

After spending time on the OakPark site and viewing HMs vines, I am greatly disturbed by Shelia's foul language and improperly placed laughter regarding reactions to her daughter. I cannot imagine calling my precious daughter a b****, or a wh***, or low class. Now, I am unsure which one made the other one crazy.

There were four vines posted by HM that I found unsettling. One was hash tagged #meanmom. The saddest vine for me was when her mom enters the bedroom in the morning to ask HM if she has "picked up" in the bathroom. Heather had already done so; however, her mom makes an eerie almost wicked laughter. In one vine, Heather speaks about the colleges she likes and in one she is wearing a Yale sweatshirt. I am of the opinion that with proper encouragement, Heather would have not dropped out of high school and would have attended college perhaps even an Ivy League University. Perhaps some of her acting out was due to the chaos and confusion of living with a loved one who drank far too frequently and excessively.

I do not believe TS passport was in the hotel's safety box but I've been wrong before. I do believe TS was still deeply mourning the loss of his girlfriend appx eight weeks earlier and was searching for love and stability. Both HM & TS were deeply troubled youths. Their meeting was a keg of gun powder ready to blow.

About the twitter acct, I was engrossed in the Dr. Taleka Patrick's missing case at WSs. WSs would go to the parking lot in the evenings and read her tweets. Evidently there is a tool available that allowed them to find her deleted tweets.

The Parking Lot:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...trick-social-media-7&highlight=Taleka+Patrick

With utmost respect, I think it's unfair to blame the victim (which is what it is when one says they cannot tell who made who crazy), based on a few vines published by her daughter, because:
1. We don't know the context of what SM stated or who she was referring to in those highly edited snips of video put together by HM.
2. In none of the 84 police reports did HM ever accuse her mother of any kind of abuse. Instead, all her outbursts seemed to be blamed on mom doing normal things like telling her to do her homework, get off the computer, not send naked photos of herself to others.
3. Heather was repeatedly physically abusive to her mom as evidenced by police reports, arrests, etc. but there is not one single report, statement or allegation from anyone, including HM, that her mom was abusive to Heather in any way, ever.
4. SM was murdered.
5. Sheila is not here to defend herself.

The insinuation that Heather might have been driven crazy, and hence, essentially, driven to murder, is one used historically by batterers and abuser apologists. I can't get behind that line of thinking.

 

[quesarita]

With utmost respect, I think it's unfair to blame the victim (which is what it is when one says they cannot tell who made who crazy), based on a few vines published by her daughter, because:
1. We don't know the context of what SM stated or who she was referring to in those highly edited snips of video put together by HM.
2. In none of the 84 police reports did HM ever accuse her mother of any kind of abuse. Instead, all her outbursts seemed to be blamed on mom doing normal things like telling her to do her homework, get off the computer, not send naked photos of herself to others.
3. Heather was repeatedly physically abusive to her mom as evidenced by police reports, arrests, etc. but there is not one single report, statement or allegation from anyone, including HM, that her mom was abusive to Heather in any way, ever.
4. SM was murdered.
5. Sheila is not here to defend herself.

The insinuation that Heather might have been driven crazy, and hence, essentially, driven to murder, is one used historically by batterers and abuser apologists. I can't get behind that line of thinking.

I second that, could not agree more.

 

[Paulette]

Considering HM was living in a hotel when Shelia tracked her down to take her on the Bali trip, why did HM agree to go? And why take TS? HM had some source of $$$ to be able to live in a hotel.

IMO, it was to get Shelia to give them $$$. Or, did they plan to murder Shelia in a far-off country that they perceived wouldn't care all that much & fly back to Chicago & go live in the new condo and raid Shelia's bank acct.?

HM had Elkins # in her phone and called him quickly. Sounds like there was plan.

 

[gitana1]

They both should be very scared by now. It's been ten days. The fact that her mother is gone must be sinking in for Heather. But she's a tough cookie if she's still not breaking down or making a statement yet. Good to hear he doesn't have the same attorney as it'd be bad for finger pointing which should happen soon. I say TS seems more likely to crack first saying she did it and he just helped clean-up. He'll resent if she has a defense team and he doesn't. What do you think?

I'm curious too about what they're thinking. IMO they are both slick and savvy and have past involvement with LE. So they know how to keep their mouths shut. The fact that two very young people who have no family with them have been stuck in an Indonesian jail with rice to eat and no technology ordrugs or alcohol, for 10 days, knowing they have been arrested for murder, yet they still have kept quiet, points to a level of sophistication that is unusual for people their age.

Mentally ill or coerced or whatever, my foot.

BBM - Me too! I'm wondering if Attny E has just been milking this for the free publicity??

So far, all HM seems to have benefited [???] with this attny is rice for meals and cut off from phone communication w/ him. Oh yah ... and the daily promises that he's on his way with a team of professionals. :notgood:

I think the American lawyer is a blow hard. He might have believed there was money to be had. Without it, no way is he traveling there on his own dime to help them.

So the "what it do" equals her attitude, and not what money can buy???

Thats what I think. Her attitude can become violent when she doesn't get her way. Otherwise, it would be "my money...you know what it do." Instead, it's prefaced by "my attitude".

You put so eloquently into words what I, and probably many others are thinking. I lost my Mom to a sudden illness at 20 and would do anything to have her back. How could a teenager kill her own Mom, especially one who seemed to do nothing but love and support her? So tragic. So needless.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm very sorry about your mama. If I could give you a hug, I would.

On a most serious note, I would hope HM would be given the option of the abortion pill and that she would take it. JMO but not wanting to start controversy.

Not in Indonesia.

moo - i not sure they callously arranged her dead body, imo - the body only bends certain ways, and in a suitcase there would only certain options to get the body to fit in.

Her back was bent in half. It was callous. They didn't care about her in death just as they murdered her in life.

 

[gitana1]

Considering HM was living in a hotel when Shelia tracked her down to take her on the Bali trip, why did HM agree to go? And why take TS? HM had some source of $$$ to be able to live in a hotel.

IMO, it was to get Shelia to give them $$$. Or, did they plan to murder Shelia in a far-off country that they perceived wouldn't care all that much & fly back to Chicago & go live in the new condo and raid Shelia's bank acct.?

HM had Elkins # in her phone and called him quickly. Sounds like there was plan.

I don't know. But three weeks before the murder the police found them partying t up in a hotel room, using SM's credit card to foot the bill without her permission. So maybe she was still using a stolen card.

This girl reminds me quite a bit of Casey Anthony.

 

[nightwatch]

A wise man told me once, for every unkind word or action a person suffers, while in an abusive relationship, that it takes one hundred nice/kinder things to make up for that one nasty word or deed.

After spending time on the OakPark site and viewing HMs vines, I am greatly disturbed by Shelia's foul language and improperly placed laughter regarding reactions to her daughter. I cannot imagine calling my precious daughter a b****, or a wh***, or low class. Now, I am unsure which one made the other one crazy.

There were four vines posted by HM that I found unsettling. One was hash tagged #meanmom. The saddest vine for me was when her mom enters the bedroom in the morning to ask HM if she has "picked up" in the bathroom. Heather had already done so; however, her mom makes an eerie almost wicked laughter. In one vine, Heather speaks about the colleges she likes and in one she is wearing a Yale sweatshirt. I am of the opinion that with proper encouragement, Heather would have not dropped out of high school and would have attended college perhaps even an Ivy League University. Perhaps some of her acting out was due to the chaos and confusion of living with a loved one who drank far too frequently and excessively.

I do not believe TS passport was in the hotel's safety box but I've been wrong before. I do believe TS was still deeply mourning the loss of his girlfriend appx eight weeks earlier and was searching for love and stability. Both HM & TS were deeply troubled youths. Their meeting was a keg of gun powder ready to blow.

About the twitter acct, I was engrossed in the Dr. Taleka Patrick's missing case at WSs. WSs would go to the parking lot in the evenings and read her tweets. Evidently there is a tool available that allowed them to find her deleted tweets.

The Parking Lot:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...trick-social-media-7&highlight=Taleka+Patrick

My thoughts on some of the points that were raised here. Jmt not personal attack.

1) those vines post from one who tells lies.

2) idk if HW would have ever have gone to ivy league or any college, by the time she was 15 she was already Freddy Krueger literally a nightmare in Oak Park.

3) TS mourning the love of his life girlfriend. Pfft by renting himself out by the hour. Goes on to assist in killing someone else's mother and folds her up like origami, I hope he goes to hell, oh wait he is in hell a third world country jail. Imo Mrs Mack through the damage to her body and all those police reports finally has the last word.

I don't know about wise men but lier and murders have been revealed in this case. All jmo. Info gained from links in this thread.


ciao