GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #2

[otto]

Ice in the Cooler?

Heather Mack craves ice cream. So says news.com.au (link at the bottom of this post). Excerpts:

"...sources say she has been craving ice cream since being locked up."

This weekend "she was taken to a police hospital for treatment, suffering laryngitis..." [OMG, was she whining too much?!]

"Denpasar police say they hope to question her again today (Monday) about her mother’s killing. It comes as authorities in Bali say that an American lawyer, who had said he was coming to Indonesia to represent Mack, is no longer representing her." [He's in hospital too, right? Hoping for a medical infusion of cash perhaps.]

"But now another Bali lawyer has been appointed to act for the young woman."

Mack and Schaefer "are now being held in different Bali police jails."

The photos are all the same old stuff. See:

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...ce-cream-in-jail/story-fnh81fz8-1227043816212

I wonder what the locals are thinking about the US woman that is screaming so much that she lost her voice. Is she pretending to be crazy? She's probably using every trick she used in the past to get attention and to do what she wants. What a let down it will be if she doesn't get her ice cream, and is put right back in isolation to protect her from the sex offenders and needle people. That's what she deserves. I think the Bali police with have to "break" her in the sense of forcing her to comply with the rules - something that will be a completely new experience for her. I wonder how long it will take, and if she will act up each and every time she encounters a new face.

 

[Quester]

All of a sudden I'm feeling like sending a postcard with a picture like the following:

ETA: Signed from "Mom"

ETA1: Or ... "Just desserts! Love Mom"

 

[Kamille]

I wonder what the locals are thinking about the US woman that is screaming so much that she lost her voice. Is she pretending to be crazy? She's probably using every trick she used in the past to get attention and to do what she wants. What a let down it will be if she doesn't get her ice cream, and is put right back in isolation to protect her from the sex offenders and needle people. That's what she deserves. I think the Bali police with have to "break" her in the sense of forcing her to comply with the rules - something that will be a completely new experience for her. I wonder how long it will take, and if she will act up each and every time she encounters a new face.

There's nothing to indicate that she has laringytis from screaming. She may just have a virus. And if she has a sore throat she may have asked for something cold and soothing like ice cream. Bali LE may still be catering to her to get her to talk. Is that news.com.au site kind of like Australia's National Enquirer or Daily Mail?

While I believe she can be a handful, I'd like to hear an LE rep talk about her "demands" rather than an unamed source to a news source that may be big on exaggerating headlines for page clicks.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

All of a sudden I'm feeling like sending a postcard with a picture like the following:

ETA: Signed from "Mom"

Oh snap.

Now I'm going to be screaming for ice cream. :floorlaugh:

 

[nightwatch]

Snipped:
This is the kind of thing about this case that fascinates me and makes me relish the thought of her trying to bully or strong arm the authorities there. I'm a very sensitive person and never get off on the suffering of others, but I must admit...here, the thought of HM throwing major tantrums in a Bali jail, and having everything she cherished in life taken from her while she sits there, waiting to be judged by people who will not be swayed my her mother;s efforts to protect her, by her identity, etc., it is an extremely satisfying feeling.

I know that is probably terrible but I can't help it.

I have also felt the same way about this case as I'm sure everyone can tell by my posts. In my mind FINALLY after all the cases I've followed where an obnoxious violent person killed their mother will not be able to put the victim on trial, manipulate the court system, try to sway a jury. No theatrics this time just the facts. Moo

ciao

 

[Lovejac]

All of a sudden I'm feeling like sending a postcard with a picture like the following:

ETA: Signed from "Mom"

OMG Quester :floorlaugh: I was not expecting that! Hilarious!

As a side note, I'm so impressed with what y'all been able to uncover about this case. This is Bali, for heaven sakes but your sleuthing abilities are incredible!

 

[Orange Tabby]

... What a let down it will be if she doesn't get her ice cream, and is put right back in isolation to protect her from the sex offenders and needle people. ...

Otto, I laughed out loud when I read your phrase “needle people”—hilarious!

Just what is that allegation of "needle marks on her body she can't explain" supposed to mean? Did either her attorney or Heather herself think through that accusation for even 20 seconds? How would it be possible for her to have been injected with a needle without her knowing? It couldn’t happen when she was awake, obviously. Were it done while she was sleeping, it would wake her up and she would see the “needle person.”

So are we meant to think that she was unknowingly drugged into a stupor and then needled? But if they could drug her without her knowledge while awake (through her food or drink, say), why would they then need to needle her as well?

Of course I don’t believe a word of this story. But even if I wanted to, I don’t know how I could even reasonably begin to comprehend it.

I think it was made up entirely, in order to dupe some folks into feeling pity and thus enlisting support. But I suppose there could be the tiniest grain of truth in it: that is, that she herself had created those needle marks prior to her arrest via drug use and needed a story to explain them.

I have a needling feeling that like so many other ridiculous things she has alleged to date, this could be used against her at trial as just one more proof that she lies without any compunction or even intelligent thought.

 

[otto]

Otto, I laughed out loud when I read your phrase “needle people”—hilarious!

Just what is that allegation of "needle marks on her body she can't explain" supposed to mean? Did either her attorney or Heather herself think through that accusation for even 20 seconds? How would it be possible for her to have been injected with a needle without her knowing? It couldn’t happen when she was awake, obviously. Were it done while she was sleeping, it would wake her up and she would see the “needle person.”

So are we meant to think that she was unknowingly drugged into a stupor and then needled? But if they could drug her without her knowledge while awake (through her food or drink, say), why would they then need to needle her as well?

Of course I don’t believe a word of this story. But even if I wanted to, I don’t know how I could even reasonably begin to comprehend it.

I think it was made up entirely, in order to dupe some folks into feeling pity and thus enlisting support. But I suppose there could be the tiniest grain of truth in it: that is, that she herself had created those needle marks prior to her arrest via drug use and needed a story to explain them.

I have a needling feeling that like so many other ridiculous things she has alleged to date, this could be used against her at trial as just one more proof that she lies without any compunction or even intelligent thought.

I suspect that she had to undergo an examination to determine whether she was pregnant, and blood was probably collected at the same time. I think she has imagined that this was a sexual assault where she received needle marks. Falsely accusing authorities of sexual assault could be very problematic for her in the future. It reminds me of Amanda Knox, who also falsely accused authorities of abuse during questioning. That backfired too.

 

[gitana1]

Looking back through some old articles, it is the first time that I have noticed this .... it is just in two early articles .. I must have missed it somehow.

"While suspicion remains on both young people, as they were the only ones seen entering the room on CCTV footage, police said their initial inquiries suggested the perpetrator of the crime was the daughter."

http://www.coloradonewsday.com/news...ocialite-62-was-found-dead-in-a-suitcase.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ter-luxury-hotel-lobby-just-hours-murder.html

Boy, he really blew it. Had he talked right away and blamed HM, they may have believed him. I think it's too late now. Why would a horrified, innocent bystander stay stubbornly quiet?

I have also felt the same way about this case as I'm sure everyone can tell by my posts. In my mind FINALLY after all the cases I've followed where an obnoxious violent person killed their mother will not be able to put the victim on trial, manipulate the court system, try to sway a jury. No theatrics this time just the facts. Moo

ciao

Or killed their daughter, or boyfriend...

 

[al66pine]

My paraphrasing from HM's classmates in Oak Park:
-Girl:Changes started in middle school when she would have boys over
boys who would tell her mother - 'she's my b*tch,' boys who would steal things from the house.
-Boy: Her mother would ask my parents for ref's for tutor to help her, cause she was struggling.
-Other boy at 2:12 in vid (not ID'ed as classmate): She was friendly, never had any problems.

Did her friend saying no probs know of the ~ 85 calls to 911, dom violence in ~9 yrs?
Maybe not. Maybe so but saw that as Mom's probs, not HM's probs?

I guess there are always diff facets to a person, depending on context we know her in.
JM2cts.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/video?clipId=10471783&autoStart=true. ~ 3min vid

 

[Orange Tabby]

I suspect that she had to undergo an examination to determine whether she was pregnant, and blood was probably collected at the same time. I think she has imagined that this was a sexual assault where she received needle marks. Falsely accusing authorities of sexual assault could be very problematic for her in the future. It reminds me of Amanda Knox, who also falsely accused authorities of abuse during questioning. That backfired too.

Otto, your suggestion as to the origin of the needle marks is entirely reasonable. It’s the best explanation for them.

However, I can’t agree that Heather imagined an ob/gyn exam to be a sexual assault. She may later make this claim specifically, but can a reasonable person accord it any credibility?

Her problem with the needle marks story is that she maintains she doesn’t know how she got them—which doesn’t jibe with a medical examination being the source. She further implies devious intent—which similarly doesn’t comport with a medical explanation. Should she rely on this story in court, I believe (but IANAL) that it would be incumbent upon her to prove such a claim. I think it’s clear that she can’t.

I am in firm agreement with you that any attempt at apeing the Amanda Knox strategy is bound to fail. Heather may not be aware that Knox’s current status is provisionally guilty, that Hellmann’s acquittal was not simply overruled but in fact annulled (thus completely wiped off the legal landscape), that the Italian Supreme Court is likely to uphold the conviction, and that Italy will almost certainly request extradition.

Thank you for your interesting and thoughtful analysis.

 

[FormerOakParker]

Hi all...another new user here, a former Oak Park resident. As most others, I find this to be a most disturbing story of people who were once my neighbors, although I didn't know them (lived several blocks away). Thank you for such thoughtful and respectful discussion.

 

[FormerOakParker]

I have a question for the attorneys. Sheila seemed to have an awful foreshadowing of events to come as she insisted police document Heather's threat a few years back.
As reported is several news accounts "In April 2011, von Wiese Mack reported to police that her daughter threatened to "stop leaving bruises and just hit her in the head," which was exactly how Sheila was murdered.
Could this be considered premeditation? Can Bali officials subpoena American police records and use this to build a premeditation case?

 

[Orange Tabby]

Warning: there are a couple of sentences in my post which contain discussion of the murder that some people might find disturbing.

Boy, he really blew it. Had he talked right away and blamed HM, they may have believed him. I think it's too late now. Why would a horrified, innocent bystander stay stubbornly quiet?

Gitana1, there are so many insightful posters on this thread. You are one of those who has taught me a lot about this case. Thank you. (And thank you to all the others, too.)

I think you have bored into one of the most important queries in this case. Your question could be asked about either of them.

One of the aspects of the murder which I believe the authorities have purposely left vague concerns precisely how they believe the attack transpired. There are a couple of facts alleged (not yet proven, of course) which interest me:

1. Police claim there are two murder weapons: an ashtray (or ornament) and a vase.

2. Reports say that Sheila suffered multiple blows to her face, including the fatal trauma to her nose which caused her to asphyxiate. She also had her neck broken as the result of a smashed vertebra.

I have taken these things in concert to suggest that there were two attackers, each with their own weapon. One attacked from the front, creating the facial head injuries and, speculatively, one attacked from behind, destroying the vertebra.

One weakness in my theory is that I have no idea if there is evidence of blunt force trauma inflicted from behind the victim. Moreover, am I correct that it is possible to break someone’s neck during a blunt force frontal assault?

Two weapons, coupled with two silent suspects—those facts alone have surely kept the police from readily assuming a single assailant.

 

[Kamille]

Hi all...another new user here, a former Oak Park resident. As most others, I find this to be a most disturbing story of people who were once my neighbors, although I didn't know them (lived several blocks away). Thank you for such thoughtful and respectful discussion.

Welcome to the discussion FormerOakParker :welcome:

Great to get some local perspective even if you did not know the family.

 

[otto]

I have a question for the attorneys. Sheila seemed to have an awful foreshadowing of events to come as she insisted police document Heather's threat a few years back.
As reported is several news accounts "In April 2011, von Wiese Mack reported to police that her daughter threatened to "stop leaving bruises and just hit her in the head," which was exactly how Sheila was murdered.
Could this be considered premeditation? Can Bali officials subpoena American police records and use this to build a premeditation case?

If they are aware of the report, then I think it can be used. It sounds like a threat to hit her mother in the head, and now her mother is murdered after being hit so hard in the face that she could no longer breath.

... not an attorney, but it makes sense that prior statements can be used by the prosecution to make a case

 

[Kamille]

You know I've gone through every picture I can of the two of them at the time of their arrests, combing over and blowing up pics of their hands, arms and faces and I cannot see one mark on either of them that indicates that Sheila fought back. Was she taken by surprise with the very first blow and that rendered her helpless? Did she put her arms up only to try to shield her face which got her the wounds on her forearms and the broken finger?

MOO

 

[FormerOakParker]

Kamille...
I can't tell you how close to home this hits...and somehow hurts. In many ways, Oak Park is considered a "model" community of progressive thinkers, artists, architects and educators. I can say from comments made in local media (Wednesday Journal) that some are wondering if Oak Park failed somehow in supporting or protecting the family. I suppose we'll never have all the answers.

 

[Kamille]

If they are aware of the report, then I think it can be used. It sounds like a threat to hit her mother in the head, and now her mother is murdered after being hit so hard in the face that she could no longer breath.

... not an attorney, but it makes sense that prior statements can be used by the prosecution to make a case

I think it would definitely be used if this occurred in the US. Not sure what role the FBI may play in this and whether things like that would be turned over to Bali prosecutors by them.

I also was wondering what the last call to police was about in June 2013, just before they moved and why there have been no calls mentioned for over a year after the move? Different jurisdiction did not release reports? Sheila wanted a new start and didn't want police at the apartment all the time to get neighbours talking?

MOO

 

[Hiandmighty]

I'm under the impression her neck was broken after she died in order for them to get her in the suitcase. It's called internal decapitation.