GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #2

[FigTree]

So HM's lawyers, via the Indonesian lawyers, are going to try to use her pregnancy and her possible psychiatric disorder as mitigating factors to determine her sentence? Not sure how either would change the fact that she may have killed her mother so I can only see them as mitigating factors to save her life or to reduce her sentence.

MOO

:drumroll:
Short, sweet, to the point, and I think 100% correct!

 

[Kamille]

WoW - I wonder if that has something to do with impact on the Hotel and guest bookings.
Or if for some reason the reported room numbers were incorrect - or there is some legality they cant be published now?
Wonder if charges have been laid - or a date set?

Over-thinking :gaah:

Probably more to do with the fact that they got word that the room number they printed was in question so they pulled it because it doesn't impact the general gist of the news story. Easy to do in this day and age of instant online news that can be altered as often as they want. Not so easy back in the day when news was in print and could not be altered but rather had to be "corrected" with an apology. Back when fact checking before releasing a story was imperative. I miss those days.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

:drumroll:
Short, sweet, to the point, and I think 100% correct!

But do either of those count in the Indonesian justice system? I'll say one thing, if they are trying to work on getting sympathy for HM for sentencing, they must not be considering the strategy of putting all the blame on TS for the murder and subsequent clean up. With HM in a minor role of being a young girl in love, being scared of what he did but choosing to stick by him to try to help him out of this mess.

Oh wait...I guess both of those mitigating factors could apply to that scenario as well. She's got a psychiatric problem that caused a disconnect with reality at the time this happened and she chose to stick by her man because she's young, in love and pregnant with his child.

Sigh...should be interesting to see how this goes.

MOO

 

[Lovejac]

Thank you seaca for article, just had to print this picture. I have absolutely no sympathy for her.

http://www.news.com.au/world/accuse...-her-unborn-baby/story-fndir2ev-1227057593001

Oh my! I just love this picture.

Kind of reminds me of "Where's Waldo?" :giggle:

 

[Hiandmighty]

Aside from her obvious distress, I agree the photo almost seems like a characterization of an animal in a cage. I wonder how long she screams, and if they have to bring ear plugs to avoid it. I also bet at this point she wished her mother could come get her out of trouble, just like Sheila apparently always did.

I'd love to know more about the cell she is in-- is that it? It looks small and mostly walls with few bars.

 

[Hiandmighty]

A thousand word picture there!

The sign on the wall - 'kebersihan' translation from google - relates to 'cleanliness' 'hygiene'.
No cleaners coming to pick up your KFC and Macca's wrappers.

Looks like there is a garbage can illustration on that sign. I wonder if the garbage can is right next to her cell?

 

[Kamille]

It looks to me as though this is just a barred "window" in that cell and that the actual door is in another location. Therefore it looks small but likely isnt. This is a cell in a police station is it not? Probably not meant to be holding people for any length of time. I also don't believe that she "screams and cries" in there. More likely she curses out anyone who shows up at that window with a camera like she is an animal on display.

MOO

 

[Lovejac]

It looks to me as though this is just a barred "window" in that cell and that the actual door is in another location. Therefore it looks small but likely isnt. This is a cell in a police station is it not? Probably not meant to be holding people for any length of time. I also don't believe that she "screams and cries" in there. More likely she curses out anyone who shows up at that window with a camera like she is an animal on display.

MOO

BBM Well, if the shoe fits..............

 

[Kamille]

BBM Well, if the shoe fits..............

LOL...you know I think the only reason she doesn't want people taking pictures is because she doesn't have her "face on" or hair done. I think it's more vanity at how she looks than anything. Yes...I believe she's that shallow.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Oh and the two pictures of her in that cell that have been released look like they are from different days. One looks like it was taken shortly after her arrest when she was wearing the black and white shirt. The other looks like it was taken this past week when she was taken to the clinic. Not sure where she got the cap from, if she had it with her or if her lawyers brought it as some kind of meaningful gesture, and I'm not sure where she's getting the change of clothes unless that was also via her lawyers, but it appears she had the cap and a red t-shirt on in the clinic pics. She's wearing the same cap in the second cell pic. And she does look like she's crying or is wiping a tear. I'll bet she was emotional seeing people from Chicago and then saying goodbye to them as she was locked back up.

I wonder why TS is always pictured in that orange jumpsuit and handcuffs and she is in regular street clothes being escorted by a petite woman by hand in most of her pics after the original arrest. Do they not realize who has the history of being more dangerous?

MOO

 

[Quester]

8/13/14: Dead body of American woman found in suitcase
http://www.thebalidaily.com/2014-08-13/dead-body-american-woman-found-suitcase.html

... “We don’t know yet why he killed the victim. But Tommy and the victim had a fight last night in the hotel lobby,” Redastra said. ...

* * *

8/14/14: American couple nabbed for alleged murder
http://www.thebalidaily.com/2014-08-14/american-couple-nabbed-alleged-murder.html

... an external examination of the victim’s body showed she had open wounds and bruises on her forehead, ears, nose and around the eyes. Wounds were also found on her hands. "It looks like the victim try to defend herself as there were many injuries to her hands," Sanglah's forensics facility coordinator, Ida Bagus Putu Alit, stated....

* * *

8/15/14: American couple to undergo psychiatric testing
http://www.thebalidaily.com/2014-08-15/american-couple-undergo-psychiatric-testing.html

... Bali Police deputy chief Brig. Gen. IGN Rahardja told journalists on Thursday that the couple was believed to have been using drugs before the murder. "It is possible that they used drugs. We haven't conducted a drug test yet," he said. ...

* * *

8/16/14: American couple could face death penalty
http://www.thebalidaily.com/2014-08-16/american-couple-could-face-death-penalty.html

... “I’m sure it was premeditated murder. Why? Because the suspects deliberately placed the dead body in a suitcase. We will probably charge them under Article 340 of the Criminal Code," Benny told journalists. ...

 

[Quester]

Looks like a still from an earlier posted video showing when LE found HM & TS
at the hotel near the airport, day following assault of SWM:


http://www.kabarnusa.com/2014/08/sembunyi-di-hotel-pembunuh-bule-as.html

 

[Curious Me]

If I were TS's mother, I'd be extremely concerned that my son may have this entire crime pinned on him while this rich girl gets treated less guilty.

The way it reads in many of these articles hints as though TS could be blamed for the entire murder. He's the one always pictured wearing the orange jumpsuit and some articles have only him arguing with Sheila.

Although I know he was very much involved, I see Heather as the main catalyst. It was Heather arguing vehemently with her mother in the first hotel. Heather was the one with the ugly attitude for the money or "it" do threat. Heather got TS to come there. Not to mention, Heather got TS involved in using her mother's credit card in the fancy Chicago hotel a month earlier and his plane ticket to Bali paid for by Sheila too. Yes, TS went along with all of this, but Heather sucked him right into it, IMO.

Makes me wonder if ever since middle school Heather was looking for some boy to help her torture her mother one way or the other.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

If I were TS's mother, I'd be extremely concerned that my son may have this entire crime pinned on him while this rich girl gets treated less guilty.

The way it reads in many of these articles hints as though TS could be blamed for the entire murder. He's the one always pictured wearing the orange jumpsuit and some articles have only him arguing with Sheila.

Although I know he was very much involved, I see Heather as the main catalyst. It was Heather arguing vehemently with her mother in the first hotel. Heather was the one with the ugly attitude for the money or "it" do threat. Heather got TS to come there. Not to mention, Heather got TS involved in using her mother's credit card in the fancy Chicago hotel a month earlier and his plane ticket to Bali paid for by Sheila too. Yes, TS went along with all of this, but Heather sucked him right into it, IMO.

Makes me wonder if ever since middle school Heather was looking for some boy to help her torture her mother one way or the other.

I agree, these cases have come up before, young women using their sex and/or money to get some guy to do their bidding. Just like a person who pays for a hit on someone, they should receive the stiffer penalty. jmo

Edit: but in this case, imo, HM struck some of, if not all of those blows on her mother. TS was required for the heavy lifting and the company. This girl is gutless on her own.

 

[tarjessi]

Since when is being a spoilt brat a psychiatric problem? I bet she does scream in total frustration because they won't let her do what she wants and just let her go. I hope she screams until she does not have a voice left. The only thing is, I think social and cultural perceptions will come into play here. They will see Tommy, who is much bigger than Heather physically as being the main assailant and I have no doubt that Heather would be playing the oh poor pregnant me card as much as she can. I know Bali doesn't want to be seen as treating them poorly but at the end of the day any treatment they receive is not anywhere as bad as being beaten to death and stuffed in a suitcase. I am so sick of the victim paling in significance in crime time and time again. It is all about the prisoner's rights...well what about the rights of the person who was murdered? Always gets forgotten in the process...

I am more than aware of personality disorders but they don't excuse a person from murder. If you are completely delusionally psychotic, that is a completely different realm and I do not believe Heather is psychotic in any way.

 

[Curious Me]

I notice that HM's Indonesian lawyer wants her psych test conducted at a non-police run hospital. Wonder how well that will sit with Bali police? And if this is actually Michael Elkin's request that is being carried forth by the Indonesian lawyer?

One would think that police would be leery of granting such a request, given the opportunity/possibility of paying for a false outcome at a different hospital.


Raja said Mack was taken to police-run Bhayangkara Hospital in Denpasar on Wednesday for a check-up on her pregnancy. He said his client had refused to undergo a psychiatric test in the same hospital.

“We have suggested that the police give permission for Heather to undergo a psychiatric test in Sanglah Hospital,” Raja said, without explaining the reason.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/09/13/us-murder-suspect-finally-faces-questioning.html

So HM's lawyers, via the Indonesian lawyers, are going to try to use her pregnancy and her possible psychiatric disorder as mitigating factors to determine her sentence? Not sure how either would change the fact that she may have killed her mother so I can only see them as mitigating factors to save her life or to reduce her sentence.

MOO

Question - if through this psychiatric evaluation Heather is said to have psychiatric problems that caused a disconnect with reality would it mean she would do her sentence time in a psychiatric part of the prison system like is often done in the US? Do some prisoners do time in a psychiatric hospital? I remember they didn't seem to care when that one female was losing her mind.

As it is, the pregnancy gives her some extra leverage for kinder treatment, and I bet she'll want to keep that baby with her for the six months just to get the extra considerations of being a "mother" with a child in prison.

 

[SouthAussie]

Since when is being a spoilt brat a psychiatric problem? I bet she does scream in total frustration because they won't let her do what she wants and just let her go. I hope she screams until she does not have a voice left. The only thing is, I think social and cultural perceptions will come into play here. They will see Tommy, who is much bigger than Heather physically as being the main assailant and I have no doubt that Heather would be playing the oh poor pregnant me card as much as she can. I know Bali doesn't want to be seen as treating them poorly but at the end of the day any treatment they receive is not anywhere as bad as being beaten to death and stuffed in a suitcase. I am so sick of the victim paling in significance in crime time and time again. It is all about the prisoner's rights...well what about the rights of the person who was murdered? Always gets forgotten in the process...

I am more than aware of personality disorders but they don't excuse a person from murder. If you are completely delusionally psychotic, that is a completely different realm and I do not believe Heather is psychotic in any way.

I don't think Sheila's rights will be forgotten, once this gets to court. This media stuff is all the mumbo jumbo that is being created by US lawyers, UK civil rights activists, Tommy's mum's plea for money .....

Indonesian court is all about the facts of the crime - not all the other stuff.

And one thing we know for sure, judging by preceding cases, the court does not like to be manipulated in any way.

 

[Mountain Misst]

A thousand word picture there!

The sign on the wall - 'kebersihan' translation from google - relates to 'cleanliness' 'hygiene'.
No cleaners coming to pick up your KFC and Macca's wrappers.

What odds that it's a 'do not litter' sign?

 

[Kamille]

Question - if through this psychiatric evaluation Heather is said to have psychiatric problems that caused a disconnect with reality would it mean she would do her sentence time in a psychiatric part of the prison system like is often done in the US? Do some prisoners do time in a psychiatric hospital? I remember they didn't seem to care when that one female was losing her mind.

As it is, the pregnancy gives her some extra leverage for kinder treatment, and I bet she'll want to keep that baby with her for the six months just to get the extra considerations of being a "mother" with a child in prison.

To the best of my knowledge, the only people who serve time in psychiatric hospitals in the US are the clinically insane. People like Andrea Yates. HM is quite sane. She would not qualify to serve time in a psychiatric facility in the US so I certainly do not see that possibility in Indonesia.

But if she can either prove or make doctors in Indonesia believe that she has a personality disorder, which in turn made her not behave in a way which would be expected when someone is hit in the face and dying, she may be able to get off the premeditated charge.

I know that we're looking at the aspects of the premeditation being TS's odd comment on Facebook, HS's odd comment on Instagram, TS showing up 8 days into the trip with only 2 left to go, the fact that he appeared to have something hidden under his shirt when he went to SWM's room at 8:40am and the fact that with the history of violence between SWM and her daughter, TS never even made it to the beach before SWM was dead.

But for me, after the first blow when it was obvious that SWM was severely injured, if the intent for her to die was not there, then they would have immediately freaked and called for medical help to try to save ber life. It's the repeated blows until she was dead and the subsequent cover up that would be enough for me to convict both of them of premeditated murder, IF it can be proven that both were in the room when she died and not just one, while the other was called to come down and help after the fact.

MOO

 

[tarjessi]

I don't think Sheila's rights will be forgotten, once this gets to court. This media stuff is all the mumbo jumbo that is being created by US lawyers, UK civil rights activists, Tommy's mum's plea for money .....

Indonesian court is all about the facts of the crime - not all the other stuff.

And one thing we know for sure, judging by preceding cases, the court does not like to be manipulated in any way.

I certainly do hope so SouthAussie. I know the media makes it hard to focus on what really happened with the fluff and confusion...sometimes it can make it quite frustrating. I meant social and cultural perceptions across the board - I mean even here at times people cannot believe a female participated in such a violent crime but it certainly does happen. I am glad that the Indonesian courts are about the facts of the crime and not the fluff thrown in by defence lawyers, etc.