GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #2

[Curious Me]

BBM. My heart bleeds for him, NOT! He's trying to get out of the premeditation. Still think he premeditated it since he stated on his Facebook he might not be coming back.

Yes, he did say that. If this was premeditated then it was by both of them, IMO.
Heather fed him all kinds of ideas for him to be thinking diamonds and money bags icons.
She led him into this mess, I have no doubt. The true responsibility falls on her.
Besides, she was arguing with her mother constantly before Tommy even got there.
Yep, they both need to go down for this, especially Heather, IMO.
This isn't one of those slap on the wrist 911 calls for battering your mother and breaking her bones.
Somebody has got to stop this "it" girl now!

 

[LinasK]

Yes, he did say that. If this was premeditated then it was by both of them, IMO.
Heather fed him all kinds of ideas for him to be thinking diamonds and money bags icons.
She led him into this mess, I have no doubt. The true responsibility falls on her.
Besides, she was arguing with her mother constantly before Tommy even got there.
Yep, they both need to go down for this, especially Heather, IMO.
This isn't one of those slap on the wrist 911 calls for battering your mother and breaking her bones.
Somebody has got to stop this "it" girl now!

Absolutely! I agree with you. It's just that he's saying he killed her in the heat of passion- not premeditated- because she dissed him, he didn't like what she said. He wouldn't have needed any provocation to kill her.

 

[tarjessi]

They have confessed: http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/09/19/23/26/us-man-confesses-over-bali-suitcase-killing

"
"Both suspects have confessed," he said, adding that Schaefer, 21, had admitted to carrying out the killing after an argument with the victim.

The daughter, 19, claimed she watched Schaefer kill her mother and then helped to stuff the body into the suitcase, said Utomo.

"The interrogation is continuing in order to get the full account," he added."

Surely they both have to go down for pre-meditation for this. How could Heather stand there and do nothing to help her mother? No injuries on Heather also confirms she did nothing to prevent this in any way shape or form. She cannot claim fear as she has shown none towards Tommy and has even whined about not being allowed to see him! Some women are so incredibly manipulative and here is another perfect example. Tommy Schaefer wanted to be a "baller" - well now he can languish in a Bali jail awaiting his probably death sentence. Dumb and violent enough to go along with Heather's plan. Poor Sheila paid for her own murderer to fly to Bali and help her daughter kill and stuff her in a suitcase. What a horrendous case of irony...I honestly still believe they planned it along.

 

[Curious Me]

The more I think about it, the less I believe this was sudden rage especially on TS's part. He had just gotten to Bali the night before. How angry and irritated could he have gotten when he barely knew Sheila. He had his own room, and you'd think he could've composed himself in his own room. Why'd he push it? What was so important that it couldn't be overlooked until morning? He doesn't seem to have a reputation of being that short-tempered or abusive either, or be an elderly woman beater any other time in his life that I've heard. The more I think about it, I can believe this was premeditated by both of them. Heather pushed this to happen, IMO. I just don't believe it happened spur of the moment from TS feeling insulted.

Don't dismiss the Firing Squad just yet.

 

[KALI]

Did his lawyer quit?

 

[Curious Me]

Quester's Timeline revisited and it sure looks like there was no way to stop what happened nor does it appear all that sudden. Just my opinion, at this point.

CHICAGO

Mon, 7/21/14 “Leaving Aug 4th for Indonesia might not come backkkk” TS wrote on his FB page according to DailyMail.co.uk

Wed, 7/23/14 SWM reported to police that her credit card was being used ... without her permission at the Conrad Hotel in Chicago. When police arrived at the tony downtown hotel, they discovered HM and her boyfriend, TS, had used the card to book a room and ring up nearly $1,000 in charges. TS, 21 yo and 6' 3", was arrested for misdemeanor disorderly conduct after acting unruly during the police response. The Oak Park native was scheduled to appear in court [sometime in the later half of Aug]. [?No other charges filed by SWM/hotel/LE?]

BALI

Mon, 8/4/14 SWM & HM arrived on Bali; first staying at a Simanyak hotel

Thur, 8/7/14 HM posted on Instagram a photo she presumably took from the window of their hotel ... accompanied by the caption: "i refuse to let someone say what i can do, gettin (sic) money my attitude you know what it do #bali," the MailOnline reports."

Sat, 8/9/14 SWM & HM moved to the St. Regis [? $545/night ?] in Nusa Dua; A St. Regis staff member told the Mail that HM and her mother were publicly fighting throughout the trip: "The mother had all the appearances of one of our upmarket guests. But the behavior she and her daughter showed did not belong in our hotel. Even so, it's such a tragic end for that poor woman."

Tues, 8/12/14; 12a+ Boyfriend TS arrived on Bali; St. Regis security camera showed HM, SWM & TS had public argument in lobby about who would pay bill upon departure; SWM said something like: I paid for his flight, you two can pay for his hotel. HM is believed to have shared occupancy of TS' room.

Note I'm adding - at some time during the night HM was in the hotel room with her mother when TS went into that hotel room, and it was reported he had something hidden under his shirt.

 

[KALI]

Maybe, after the murder, Heather told him that if he took the fall, so she could get out, and that she would get her Mom's money and use it to defend him and make things easier for him?
We don't know if she's carrying his baby, but if he thinks she is, that could sway him to take the fall for his baby as well?
Although they haven't talked (as far as we know), I'm sure bribes could assist with communications, maybe she was feeding him the rape stories as well?
I must be really jaundiced, because with Heather and her Mother's long history of problems and violence, I just have a hard time believing that she ONLY helped with disposing of her Mother's body. Jmo

 

[Curious Me]

Maybe, after the murder, Heather told him that if he took the fall, so she could get out, and that she would get her Mom's money and use it to defend him and make things easier for him?
We don't know if she's carrying his baby, but if he thinks she is, that could sway him to take the fall for his baby as well?
Although they haven't talked (as far as we know), I'm sure bribes could assist with communications, maybe she was feeding him the rape stories as well?
I must be really jaundiced, because with Heather and her Mother's long history of problems and violence, I just have a hard time believing that she ONLY helped with disposing of her Mother's body. Jmo

I know, she "ONLY" helped stuff her dying or dead mother's body into a suitcase. But even that is not some minor act! It's horrifying! Plus Heather didn't scream for help or anything when the bf beat her mother to death? Just wanted her passport, etc., to go on the run. Oh, she did do a lot of screaming just recently. She's must find it outrageous she is being held for trial when all she did was stuff her own mother . . .

Poor Sheila, she really had a lot of misplaced trust in her "it" type daughter.

 

[SouthAussie]

"Tommy said that he was in an argument with Sheila von Weise-Mack in a hotel room. Tommy was offended and then killed Sheila," Djoko Hari Utomo, head of police in the provincial capital Denpasar, told Reuters. "Heather was in the room. She witnessed the killing and then helped put the body into a suitcase."

Police had earlier said that Schaefer may have killed his girlfriend's mother after getting into an argument over the hotel bill, but said the suspect gave a different reason in his statement.

"We cannot give more details about what offended Tommy and how he killed Sheila," Utomo said, adding that the investigation was still ongoing.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/09/1...murder-admits-killing-girlfriends-mother-cops

 

[SouthAussie]

“I think my sister loved Heather more than anything,” Wiese said. “She would seek our input and advice. She tried so hard to help Heather through the years with therapists and psychiatrists. It was always a struggle to get Heather to (cooperate).”

Wiese was unaware of any specific diagnosis, though police reports suggest Mack suffered from depression.

Wiese said the family is planning a Sept. 27 memorial service in Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-bali-suitcase-murder-20140919-story.html

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Thank you. I am on the same boat. I believe Heather killed her mother.

This makes the most sense to me, too.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Yes, he did say that. If this was premeditated then it was by both of them, IMO.
Heather fed him all kinds of ideas for him to be thinking diamonds and money bags icons.
She led him into this mess, I have no doubt. The true responsibility falls on her.
Besides, she was arguing with her mother constantly before Tommy even got there.
Yep, they both need to go down for this, especially Heather, IMO.
This isn't one of those slap on the wrist 911 calls for battering your mother and breaking her bones.
Somebody has got to stop this "it" girl now!

Yes, I agree. I think she was as much a part of it as he was--or more so. Sounds like now she's turning on him and trying to let him take the whole blame for the murder. She really needs to be stopped.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Yes, he did say that. If this was premeditated then it was by both of them, IMO.
Heather fed him all kinds of ideas for him to be thinking diamonds and money bags icons.
She led him into this mess, I have no doubt. The true responsibility falls on her.
Besides, she was arguing with her mother constantly before Tommy even got there.
Yep, they both need to go down for this, especially Heather, IMO.
This isn't one of those slap on the wrist 911 calls for battering your mother and breaking her bones.
Somebody has got to stop this "it" girl now!

Oops, post repeated. Edited out. Sorry!

 

[Curious Me]

“I think my sister loved Heather more than anything,” Wiese said. “She would seek our input and advice. She tried so hard to help Heather through the years with therapists and psychiatrists. It was always a struggle to get Heather to (cooperate).”

Wiese was unaware of any specific diagnosis, though police reports suggest Mack suffered from depression.

Wiese said the family is planning a Sept. 27 memorial service in Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-bali-suitcase-murder-20140919-story.html

SouthAussie, what do you think Bali LE and the Judges will do if these two killers are trying to confess to a lesser crime when in reality it was premeditated? Will they just be glad they got the killers confessions and give TS a longer sentence and HM a shorter sentence for only helping stuff Mom in the suitcase?

In the beginning of the investigation, LE sounded pretty positive that it was a premeditated murder.
TS had just arrived in Bali and bam Sheila's dead. TS was caught on camera hiding something under his shirt and entering the room where Sheila was beat to death with heavy objects. Heather didn't stop it. I call that premeditation right there. JMO

Mack and Schaefer then went back inside the hotel, where police say they tried to access her mother's safe deposit box containing their passports and jewelry. The hotel staff refused to open it and the couple exited through a back door, authorities said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-bali-suitcase-murder-20140919-story.html

 

[Orange Tabby]

Heather allegedly claims the murder was unintentional

Friday morning (Chicago time) we had the strange situation where the Associated Press, followed by Agence France Presse and the Chicago Tribune, all reported that Tommy had confessed to the murder and that Heather had confessed to being present and also to helping force her mother’s body into a suitcase.

The Jakarta Post had a nearly-contemporaneous story which said that the two suspects still denied everything. (See posts #751 and #752.)

Today the author of the Jakarta Post story linked to in #752, Ni Komang Erviani, writes of Tommy’s and Heather’s alleged confessions, again in the Jakarta Post. His story opens like this:

The Bali Police said on Friday that two US youths held in detention since last month had finally confessed to murdering US woman Sheila von Weise Mack and hiding her body in a suitcase.

Following intensive interrogation, Denpasar Police chief Sr. Comr. Djoko Hari Utomo said that Tommy Schaefer, 21, and his girlfriend Heather Lois Mack, 18, the daughter of the victim, had admitted to murdering Mack.

“Both suspects have confessed to the murder,” Djoko said.

“Heather, however, has only confessed to witnessing the murder and claims to have taken no active part in the crime. She also claimed that Schaefer had no intension of murdering [Sheila von Weise Mack] in the first place,” he added.
[BBM]​

The new information contained here is Heather’s claim that the murder by Tommy was unintentional and that she very specifically denies any active participation in the murder.

Compare also the second paragraph, where the police chief equates Heather's specific alleged confessions (being present, desecrating her mother's body by forcing it into the suitcase) with actual murder with the 4th paragraph quote, where he falls back, saying she "has only confessed to witnessing the murder..."

Contradictory. Confusing. Frustrating.

See: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/09/20/suitcase-murder-suspects-confess-police.html

 

[Orange Tabby]

The past 24 hours has been confusing. We’ve discussed some of the peculiar aspects of what has been recently published, including contradictions in the media as well as contradictions in the stories we are told the two suspects are telling.

One issue: will authorities charge Tommy and Heather differently? Earlier reports suggested that Tommy would possibly be charged with premeditated murder and Heather with murder only.

Jakarta Post reporter Ni Komang Erviani helps us not. In his most recent story, mentioned in my post #795 above, he writes:

The police have charged both suspects with violating Article 340 of the Criminal Code on premeditated murder and Article 338 of the Criminal Code on murder; the violations carry a maximum penalty of death.​

Yet he is perfectly comfortable writing in the very next paragraph:

“We are still intending to charge the suspects with premeditated murder,” said Djoko.​

If the police are intending to charge, as this second quote says, then the proceeding claim that “the police have charged” would seem to be wrong.

Also, I think we are all pretty clear that an Article 340 conviction can carry the death penalty, while an Article 338 conviction can not.

Reporter Ni Komang Erviani may be simply unreliable, may merely have poor English, or may be someone in over his head.

But he certainly is vexing.

See: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/09/20/suitcase-murder-suspects-confess-police.html

 

[FigTree]

I think the Police have a very clear picture of what happened - why it happened and who did what, and I think they are keeping it close to their chest.

As for TS being offended by Sheila, and then killing her - where's the noise - where's the argument?
I don't believe 'that' scenario either.
What did HM promise TS?
Because what ever it was, it was worthless as herself.

It would have been HM and TS against Sheila - 2 against 1 - and premeditated.
There is no way I could see HM siding with her mother over any argument which included (HM's) boyfriend.

Mack and Schaefer then went back inside the hotel, where police say they tried to access her mother's safe deposit box containing their passports and jewelry. The hotel staff refused to open it and the couple exited through a back door, authorities said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...919-story.html

Where's the charges for attempted theft by deception.

 

[SouthAussie]

SouthAussie, what do you think Bali LE and the Judges will do if these two killers are trying to confess to a lesser crime when in reality it was premeditated? Will they just be glad they got the killers confessions and give TS a longer sentence and HM a shorter sentence for only helping stuff Mom in the suitcase?

In the beginning of the investigation, LE sounded pretty positive that it was a premeditated murder.
TS had just arrived in Bali and bam Sheila's dead. TS was caught on camera hiding something under his shirt and entering the room where Sheila was beat to death with heavy objects. Heather didn't stop it. I call that premeditation right there. JMO

Hi Curious Me. I think this ....

“We are still intending to charge the suspects with premeditated murder,” said Djoko.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/09/20/suitcase-murder-suspects-confess-police.html
(Thanks for the link, Orange Tabby.)

And I think the judges will try the case according to the charges, and according to the facts of the crime.

Both TS & HM had opportunities to save Sheila, and both had many opportunities to alert authorities. The Indonesian police are not fools. And they always seem to take the toughest stance, no matter who tries to intervene. If they make a precedent of reducing charges in this case, they will be making a rod for their own backs.

 

[newone]

Hi Curious Me. I think this ....

“We are still intending to charge the suspects with premeditated murder,” said Djoko.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/09/20/suitcase-murder-suspects-confess-police.html
(Thanks for the link, Orange Tabby.)

And I think the judges will try the case according to the charges, and according to the facts of the crime.

Both TS & HM had opportunities to save Sheila, and both had many opportunities to alert authorities. The Indonesian police are not fools. And they always seem to take the toughest stance, no matter who tries to intervene. If they make a precedent of reducing charges in this case, they will be making a rod for their own backs.

bbm that's the critical factor -- if indeed it was an act of passion as a result of being dissed -- aid could have been rendered and the matter reported....MOO

 

[Orange Tabby]

CNN: “The exact role Heather Mack has is still under investigation”

A CNN article was filed early this morning. Excerpts:

Heather Mack, 19, and Tommy Schaefer, 21, have been detained as suspects in the murder in the death of Mack's mother, Sheila von Weise Mack, and "it appears that the motive for the killing was because she was against Schaefer's relationship with Heather," Bali police spokesman Hery Wiyanto told CNN.

What exactly happened in room 317 of the St. Regis Bali Resort and the exact role Heather Mack has is still under investigation, said Denpasar police Chief Djoko Hari Utomo. [BBM]​

See: http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/19/world/asia/indonesia-american-woman-killed-suitcase/