GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

[LinasK]

It's just laughable that Tommy wanted to give her the fruit bowl stolen from the hotel as a gift so he hid it under his shirt!!!
She had one of her own in her own room I'm sure!

 

[Kamille]

Heather’s intense belief in her own entitlement is absolutely remarkable. She thinks she can make up any old lie and people will believe it.

Going further to your excellent points above, SouthAussie, it would be interesting to know what various people witnessed in Heather’s behavior in the aftermath the murder. Did the taxi driver observe that it was Heather who was taking charge (and not Tommy) in their dealings with him? Was Heather composed and adamant about getting into the hotel lockbox at the lobby and was Tommy merely passively present? Was Tommy with Heather when it was her (not him) assuring hotel staff that there was no problem with the sheet-wrapped suitcase on the trolley? Did Heather do all the talking at the airport when attempting to get a new passport? Was it Heather who talked their way into get checked in at the hotel where they were arrested? Did all or even just some of these people witness her “in charge,” focused, and animated and not the least bit robotic?

I would not be surprised in the least should it turn out that there are many Bali witnesses who will say that Heather appeared to be the dominant member of this pair.

Good points OrangeTabby. I can't remember which article that was posted recently stated that Bali LE had spoken with 16 witnesses and had more to speak to. I do remember that the article was from pretty early on in the case however. So there must be a LOT of people at both hotels and at the airport if they in fact did go there, plus a couple of taxi drivers, who can shed some light on HM's demeanor. Because she sure didn't look "robotic" in the clips from the police station. Actually it was TS who looked shell shocked to me.

MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

It's just laughable that Tommy wanted to give her the fruit bowl stolen from the hotel as a gift so he hid it under his shirt!!!
She had one of her own in her own room I'm sure!

The thing is too ... things in Bali are so unbelievably inexpensive. Beautiful, quality handcrafted items are sold for a pittance. Gorgeous wooden carved bowls (that will not break/crack/smash while you are transporting them home in your suitcase) cost $1 .. $2 ... $5.

But I guess with Sheila's 'bipolar disorder' and 'hotel-item-kleptomania' she would never have dreamed of purchasing beautiful inexpensive souvenirs from the nearby vendors. Instead, a fragile, breakable, hotel glass fruit bowl was much more to her taste ... or so they would like us to believe.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Good points OrangeTabby. I can't remember which article that was posted recently stated that Bali LE had spoken with 16 witnesses and had more to speak to. I do remember that the article was from pretty early on in the case however. So there must be a LOT of people at both hotels and at the airport if they in fact did go there, plus a couple of taxi drivers, who can shed some light on HM's demeanor. Because she sure didn't look "robotic" in the clips from the police station. Actually it was TS who looked shell shocked to me.

MOO

I had completely neglected the part I've bolded above, Kamille, as I've been thinking about this. I think you've made a really important point.

I wonder if Heather's behavior and attitude seemed noteworthy and terribly suspicious to the police from the very beginning, much more so than Tommy's.

 

[Curious Me]

It is hard to respond to the article without hitting my computer.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/daughte...cted-like-a-robot-lawyer-20141013-115k3o.html

I am so disgusted to have to read these downright lies from the two mother killers. I can't imagine how SWM's brother and sisters can bear to hear this slander of the victim. It is complete fabrication, IMO.

What a sickening twist trying to make TS the nice guy bearing gifts.

Here I brought you a fruit bowl gift you can steal.

 

[Kamille]

The thing is too ... things in Bali are so unbelievably inexpensive. Beautiful, quality handcrafted items are sold for a pittance. Gorgeous wooden carved bowls (that will not break/crack/smash while you are transporting them home in your suitcase) cost $1 .. $2 ... $5.

But I guess with Sheila's 'bipolar disorder' and 'hotel-item-kleptomania' she would never have dreamed of purchasing beautiful inexpensive souvenirs from the nearby vendors. Instead, a fragile, breakable, hotel glass fruit bowl was much more to her taste ... or so they would like us to believe.

There is nothing funny about this case but just the thought of Tommy, who really didn't know Sheila at all, showing up in her room with a fruit bowl from his room and saying to her "I brought this to you from my room because Heather tells me you like to steal souvenirs from hotels" just makes me :giggle:

The whole story is just so absurd.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I had completely neglected the part I've bolded above, Kamille, as I've been thinking about this. I think you've made a really important point.

I wonder if Heather's behavior and attitude seemed noteworthy and terribly suspicious to the police from the very beginning, much more so than Tommy's.

That's the thing though. She was treated like the princess she thinks she is and he was treated like a common criminal. I still don't understand why she never saw a pair of handcuffs after being initially brought to the police station, nor an orange monkey suit, and he was being paraded around in them for the press on both occasions he was out and about. The original arrest and the clinic visit a couple of weeks later. And why was he brought to the clinic? We've heard nothing about his health though this. We hear plenty about hers and how important it is to keep her happy and healthy.

MOO

 

[LinasK]

That's the thing though. She was treated like the princess she thinks she is and he was treated like a common criminal. I still don't understand why she never saw a pair of handcuffs after being initially brought to the police station, nor an orange monkey suit, and he was being paraded around in them for the press on both occasions he was out and about. The original arrest and the clinic visit a couple of weeks later. And why was he brought to the clinic? We've heard nothing about his health though this. We hear plenty about hers and how important it is to keep her happy and healthy.

MOO

Healthy and happy for her attitude what it do, or the baby?

 

[Curious Me]

:giggle:

Heck .. she's tried lies about sexual assault and mysterious needle marks, she's tried gangs of six men, she's tried crying and having a tantrum, so why not try a hunger strike? And that didn't work either, so now we are on to .. it was all Tommy's doing .. all he wanted to do was give a stolen fruit bowl to my mother because she needed one so much and would love to carry extra unwanted weight home in her suitcase and steal from a posh hotel .. and, and, and .... I was so afraid.

Yeah, I guess, the only time HM ever was quiet and timid in her entire life was when TS was striking those blows to murder her mother. The girl everybody called a little monster, the what-it-do girl, suddenly could only hide in the bathroom, but sure managed to help stuff Mom in the suitcase and take charge after.

At this point, I'm all for the Firing Squad for these two.

 

[Orange Tabby]

That's the thing though. She was treated like the princess she thinks she is and he was treated like a common criminal. I still don't understand why she never saw a pair of handcuffs after being initially brought to the police station, nor an orange monkey suit, and he was being paraded around in them for the press on both occasions he was out and about. The original arrest and the clinic visit a couple of weeks later. And why was he brought to the clinic? We've heard nothing about his health though this. We hear plenty about hers and how important it is to keep her happy and healthy.

MOO

I agree, these things are hard to take. I don’t have good answers, but here are a few thoughts:

1. Do Indonesians regularly treat women differently from men when they are arrested? I remember in the first thread on this case here at Websleuths, someone said that Indonesia is a very patriarchal society (or something to that effect, I think). Could the kinder treatment be due to a sort of chauvinism that sees women as weak and fragile? Or far less dangerous then men? Maybe the Australians here can remember if Renae Lawrence or Shapelle Corby were handcuffed when arrested. Because if they were, then my point is wrong.

2. Do we know when Heather told police she was pregnant? If she spilled this early, perhaps that explains a more tender treatment. As much as I despise what I believe she has done, I can accept that LE would give her special treatment because of her pregnancy. The unborn child is an innocent. That's a big reason (maybe the only one) that Heather's health is more important to them than Tommy's.

3. Perhaps police felt in the very early stages of the investigation they needed to tread lightly with Heather because if they were wrong about her involvement, then she would have been suffering because of the loss of her mother. Of course she wasn’t suffering from that (only from being arrested), but maybe the police took that into account in the initial stages, and then took the pregnancy into account later.

4. Could it be that the police from the beginning saw her as demanding and decided to follow a path of giving in to her as much as they could because they thought they’d have a better chance of getting her to talk?

Not very good explanations, I have to confess. (And my confession contains no lies!)

 

[Hiandmighty]

yeah, i guess, the only time hm ever was quiet and timid in her entire life was when ts was striking those blows to murder her mother. The girl everybody called a little monster, the what-it-do girl, suddenly could only hide in the bathroom, but sure managed to help stuff mom in the suitcase and take charge after.

At this point, i'm all for the firing squad for these two.

exactly!

 

[FormerOakParker]

OMG ... did we not predict that HM would say that she was hiding and quivering in fear in the bathroom?!!! Why would she even think of running out of the room screaming for help? Or leaning out of a window or over a balcony and screaming for help? Or picking up the darn phone? No, better to wait around and cry in the bathroom while your mother is being attacked and murdered. Then hug her close before you tape her up, help stuff her into a suitcase, and go and get a trolley to wheel her down to the pre-ordered taxi.

I'll bet she wasn't acting like a 'robot' when she tried to get her passport from the lockbox. Or when she tried to get a replacement passport at the airport. Or when she told police to take her to the embassy. Or when she explained how a gang of six men attacked her mother, as she was smoking cigarettes in the safety of the police station.

No, she had plenty of opportunity to help her mother, and to come clean, before they settled on this contrived story. Which I'm sure that police will point out to the judges.

I doubt that this will work, Schapelle didn't put all that cannabis in her boogie board bag either ... must have been the baggage handlers, or someone else ... and she still went to Kerobokan. (It was her lawyer who spun a baggage-handlers-did-it story - which he admitted later in Australia, after the trial was done and dusted.)

I would love to hear from Tommy's lawyer. What does he have to say?

SouthAussie, yes we did predict that HM would say that she was hiding and quivering in fear in the bathroom. We also predicted she's throw TS (and anyone else who'd expose the real truth) under the bus. It's like psychopaths all operate from the same game playbook. I've been married to one of these and after awhile, could predict exactly, to some detail, what he'd do next. They can leave you out to dry, physically, mentally, emotionally, financially...but will always cry VICTIM!!!
I was actually impressed with TS's US attorney Thomas Durkin, and am quite surprised he permitted TS to present such an implausible confession account of events. But maybe I was wrong about Durkin.

 

[FormerOakParker]

The Director of the Asian Law Centre at the University of Melbourne, Tim Lindsey, said in this article (about Schapelle Corby) that these kind of defenses are what an innocent person would say, but that they are also what a guilty person would say. The court would be very aware of that.


Tim Lindsey:Her evidence is based on a flat denial.

That denial is of course quite consistent with innocence, but it is also what you might expect a guilty person to say. That's the problem, it's a real dilemma for her. If she is innocent, (I have no views as to her guilt or innocence) but if she's innocent, that is what she would say; if she's guilty, that's what she would say.

The problem is really you can't expect to succeed in court without hard evidence.

So why should she be treated differently? Then there is that sense that creates - and there's a lot of cynicism in Bali about the behaviour of foreign tourists, and drugs, sex and other things. And I think this huge pressure in the media, the visits of senior figures to Indonesia, lobbying on Corby's behalf, probably is not helping her.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...sian-legal-system-and-schapelle-corby/3448778


To me, hard evidence would be scratches on Tommy's neck, an attempt by HM to flee the scene and get help, or get help after the fact, CCTV of Tommy forcing HM to wheel the suitcase trolley back to the room ... something .... anything .... to show that she was not a wiling co-perpetrator.

...Exactly. If SvWM was trying to strangle TS as he claimed in his preposterous confession, hard evidence would be scratches on Tommy's neck (we saw none from photos taken at the arrest), an attempt by HM to flee the scene and get help (Nope, she helped pack Mom into suitcase, get trolley, and dispose of suitcase in taxi), or get help after the fact (no, went to airport and then to cheaper hotel for sex), CCTV of Tommy forcing HM to wheel the suitcase trolley back to the room ... something .... anything .... to show that she was not a wiling co-perpetrator. (Nope, nothing. Not a darned thing)

 

[Curious Me]

This daughter battered her own Mother for years and even broke a bone, and then threatened to hit her Mother on the head as to not leave bruises as proof. There is no way HM stayed behind a bathroom door, IMO, I bet she got her blows in with her years of pent-up "it" hatred.

Here she is the What-It-Do and Did HM.

"I warned you, Mom."

 

[gracehatter]

I really hope that if SWM had some family wealth other than what she obtained during her marriage to James Mack, that this portion of the estate goes to her siblings. Now if she did not and her estate is made up only of the assets that we've gone over on this board from the house belonging to JM, a cheaper condo that he owned and the settlement in the lawsuit against the cruise line, I hope that this portion estate is split amongst JM's other 4 children. HM is deserving of nothing, other than a lifelong stay in a Bali prison as an indigent resident.

MOO

It's highly unlikely, at least I'd imagine, that any portion would pass to JM's other kids under the set of facts we have now. When JM's will was probated it all went to SWM, so at that point, he becomes a non factor. Remember when SM's will was filed, it was reported that she had the will made at the same time
as JM and she had left her estate to one beneficiary in the form of a trust. While that person remains unknown the chances that it is anyone other than HM, I'm just guessing is slim.

If there is no provison for further disposal in the event HM can't take within the trust, then the estate will be divided by the intestate rules which in this case, since we have not heard anything to indicate SWM's parents are alive, it will be split between her siblings.

 

[Curious Me]

It's not just us. Nobody seems to believe HM's and TS's stories and lies if you read the comments section.

Suspect in Bali Suitcase Murder Says Slur Sparked Anger
Includes some videos
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...9171.html?_osource=Newltr_Station_Hdlines_chi

 

[Curious Me]

Normally, I'd say "you can't make this stuff up", but in this case, my opinion only, of course,
they apparently did make it up.

There goes Tommy. :underbus:


Daughter of woman murdered in Bali acted like a 'robot': lawyer
October 13, 2014 - 10:23PM
http://www.smh.com.au/world/daughte...cted-like-a-robot-lawyer-20141013-115k3o.html

"According to Mr. Raja, Schaefer had only arrived at the Nusa Dua hotel from the United States at 2am on the day of the murder, and Mack, without her mother's knowledge, had gone to greet him."

"The following morning at 8am, Mack, who is pregnant with Schaefer's baby, had urged her boyfriend to visit von Wiese-Mack in her room. He had brought with him the fruit bowl — the property of the hotel — as a gift to a woman who souvenired hotel property wherever she stayed."

"That was the reason he was hiding the bowl under his shirt — it was not that he intended to kill her, the lawyer said."

"But inside room 317, an argument began over Mack's pregnancy. Von Wiese-Mack then made offensive comments about Schaefer . . ."

 

[FigTree]

Oh Please!!! Spare Me...:facepalm:

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/daughte...bot-lawyer-20141013-115k3o.html#ixzz3G6lS4men


My Bolds...

The following morning at 8am, Mack, who is pregnant with Schaefer's baby, had urged her boyfriend to visit von Wiese-Mack in her room. He had brought with him the fruit bowl — the property of the hotel — as a gift to a woman who souvenired hotel property wherever she stayed.

B***S***

Mr Raja said Mack's shirt was covered in blood not because she had participated in the murder, but because she had hugged her mother's body after Schaefer had stopped.

B***S*** and uke:

Schaefer has said he then grabbed the metal handle of the fruit bowl and hit von Wiese-Mack once with it, then continued to beat her to death as Mack hid in the bathroom.

B***S***

-----
It would not surprise me if HM & TS have viewed much of the social media about the case to see what the reaction has been and how much attention this is all getting.

HM & TS had plenty of time to whip up a story - but even the thought of trying to leave HM out of any involvment with this is just ludicrous! Gee - I wonder whose idea that would have been? rincess:

I have no doubt the re-enactment brought up more questions than answers.

I really do hope that someone like SvWM's brother and family turn up to see this case in the Court stages. SvWM needs someone there to be on her side - even if its just to stare at these two offensive murderers so that they know that there is someone in that Court room that knows more about them than their lawyers - and someone who knows that Sheila didn't deserve what they did to her.

 

[gracehatter]

This publication always screams tabloid to me so I post it with a caveat. There are some errors (it mentions HM as adopted, neglects to call RS an ex of TS) yet there are new statements as well so as always, take what you will from it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ter-luxury-hotel-lobby-just-hours-murder.html

Noteworthy, if is to be believed info talking about "Miss Mack's" behavior as observed by staff, comments from someone that grew up with HM and is now a Jakarta writer and this interesting statement:

While suspicion remains on both young people, as they were the only ones seen entering the room on CCTV footage, police said their initial inquiries suggested the perpetrator of the crime was the daughter.

ETA: Call me cynical but who else thinks the "writer" is someone that got paid for their story, thus becoming a "writer" to the Jakarta Post?

 

[Curious Me]

A few make-believe statements I'm imagining HM claiming.

Nobody got any sleep that night, so bright and early that morning, I suggested Tommy wake up my Mother and give her a nice stolen-from-the-hotel fruit bowl gift for her collection.

:hearno: No, I didn't see him kill my mother. I was in the bathroom filing my nails.

and brushing my teeth.

Okay, okay, I'll go to bed..........................fftobed: