GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

[ajaylee]

My eyes aren't the best, Kamille, but is that by any chance an almost empty 'fruit basket' on the console in the left of the picture?

 

[Quester]

My eyes aren't the best, Kamille, but is that by any chance an almost empty 'fruit basket' on the console in the left of the picture?

WOW! It looks like it could be! Great eyes, ajaylee!!!

It has, what looks like a slightly curved large glass bottom, two large arching ?metal? handles that connect at the top and what looks like two apples remaining. JMO

Maybe someone who knows how can zoom in, capture image and re-post? TIA

 

[Kamille]

WOW! It looks like it could be! Great eyes, ayaylee!!!

It has, what looks like a slightly curved large glass bottom, two large arching ?metal? handles that connect at the top and what looks like two apples remaining. JMO

Maybe someone who knows how can zoom in, capture image and re-post? TIA

Gets kind of blurry but your description sounds pretty accurate...

That is from an actual traveller's photo and was uploaded to tripadvisor in March of this year.

 

[Quester]

Now imagine hiding that under your t-shirt! :lol:

And ... souveniring it and taking it home in your luggage! :lol:

 

[Kamille]

Here is a picture of another one from that link in February 2014


img

 

[IslandLover]

I wonder whose fingerprints were stuck all over the duct tape found with the body?

Good question!

 

[Kamille]

Now haven't we read about glass being found both in room 317 and room 616? Where is all this glass coming from?

And there's been some mixed reports of the whole fruit bowl or just the metal handle being hidden under the shirt.

So was all the glass for this bowl found in room 616? Or was there some found in room 317 as well? This will determine just what he was hiding under his shirt.

If there was no glass from this bowl found in room 317, what glass was found there?

Did they try to clean up the glass from the fruit bowl and take it all back to room 616 to make it appear that it had been broken by accident in that room? And they missed some of it which is how LE knows that the entire fruit bowl was under his shirt and brought to room 317?

Where was the fruit? Since they had to throw in that SWM liked to steal things from the hotel, he must have left the fruit in his room. So by claiming that she liked to steal things, this would explain why he would bring a stolen fruit bowl as a gift to her with no fruit in it. Since the fruit would be considered the gift to someone who doesn't like to pilfer things from hotels. And it would be obvious if the fruit was in it because if he had just started swinging it, the fruit would be smashed all over the crime scene and they would not have been able to bring the fruit back to room 616 with the handle and the glass.

MOO

HM must have had some fun coming up with explanations for evidence with her lawyer. I hope this is where the discrepancies lie. In her extra explanations for things

 

[ajaylee]

If it is the 'fruit bowl', it isn't at all what I was visualizing. I can also understand why one article referred to it as a 'plant stand' (maybe like a potted plant?).

Still no mention of the bloody broken vase and ashtray mentioned in early reports.

Re: the duct tape. I wonder if this is possibly a mis-translation? First, many people travel with duct tape, but many more do not, particularly at the higher end of the market. Second, once I start thinking about how the duct tape was allegedly used, it doesn't make sense. Why would they duct tape the body and not just duct tape the outside of the suitcase? Perhaps it was some kind of athletic tape or bandage that SWM used, perhaps if her once-broken ankle bothered her?

 

[Kamille]

If it is the 'fruit bowl', it isn't at all what I was visualizing. I can also understand why one article referred to it as a 'plant stand' (maybe like a potted plant?).

Still no mention of the bloody broken vase and ashtray mentioned in early reports.

Re: the duct tape. I wonder if this is possibly a mis-translation? First, many people travel with duct tape, but many more do not, particularly at the higher end of the market. Second, once I start thinking about how the duct tape was allegedly used, it doesn't make sense. Why would they duct tape the body and not just duct tape the outside of the suitcase? Perhaps it was some kind of athletic tape or bandage that SWM used, perhaps if her once-broken ankle bothered her?

We discussed the use of the duct tape in an earlier thread I think. First off, you're correct in that it may not even be an item used in this crime. It may have stemmed from some bad translation. A tensor bandage or something like that is also possible I suppose.

However, if actual duct tape was used, the only people who would likely bring duct tape with them are people who have either had an incident in the past where they had damaged luggage that needed a quick fix to get it home, or they frequent travel forums where it may feature as an item to bring "just in case". You can see by the picture Quester posted that it's even being marketed in small rolls for emergency use when away from home. It's not just for "rednecks" anymore.

And the reason for it being marketed in small rolls is because the standard roll is heavy and bulky. Not something you want to packing "just in case". However a small roll or two like in that picture would be easy to pack and ideal to have "just in case".

So if you only have that amount of duct tape, it's going to run out quickly when using it to hold together a body for transport in a suitcase I would imagine. And after it's all gone trying to get that body as compact as possible, I guess there's none left to wrap around the outside of the suitcase when all efforts to close it fail.

No one ever said either of these two were all that bright. :notgood:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

And another look at the metal stand fruit bowl from the same link.


image upload

Can't believe how many pics I went through and missed these. LOL Good eye ajaylee

 

[Orange Tabby]

People magazine's summary of the Sydney Morning Herald article discussing the the re-creation of the murder has nothing new, but just so you know:

http://www.people.com/article/bali-suitcase-murder-victim-killed-with-fruit-bowl

They do claim Tommy brought Sheila the bowl with fruit in it! How he could have managed all that under his shirt is not explained. I think they just misunderstood their source.

 

[IslandLover]

However if it were being tried in the US, not one of those criminal records or HM's past behaviour would likely make it into the court and it would be tried just on the crime itself. So it will be interesting to see what happens. I believe in that Daily Mail article we've been discussing it says that "initial inquiries pointed to the daughter". Well we know those initial inquiries were the rumours and/or facts that they had received about HM's violent past with her mother. So they likely know about it. Now whether they can or will use it is something to be seen.

MOO

I know that an accused's prior convictions might not be presented as evidence by the prosecution in a trial by jury in western countries, although sometimes it is allowed. Indonesian courts have no jury and I thought that past behaviour could be used in evidence, especially when trying to establish motive (although I may be wrong). South Africa also has no jury system and in two recent high profile cases, namely Pistorius and Dewani, prior behaviour and character have been used by the prosecution to establish motive. It will be interesting to see what happens when HM and TS finally appear in court, IF it's reported in the western media.

 

[SouthAussie]

Good find with the fruit bowl, Kamille and ajaylee! :cheer:

Yeah, as Quester said, I can see exactly how that would have fit neatly under TS' formfitting t-shirt, and oh-so-neatly into a suitcase as a take-home hotel souvenir! :hilarious:

 

[IslandLover]

If it is the 'fruit bowl', it isn't at all what I was visualizing. I can also understand why one article referred to it as a 'plant stand' (maybe like a potted plant?).

Still no mention of the bloody broken vase and ashtray mentioned in early reports.

Re: the duct tape. I wonder if this is possibly a mis-translation? First, many people travel with duct tape, but many more do not, particularly at the higher end of the market. Second, once I start thinking about how the duct tape was allegedly used, it doesn't make sense. Why would they duct tape the body and not just duct tape the outside of the suitcase? Perhaps it was some kind of athletic tape or bandage that SWM used, perhaps if her once-broken ankle bothered her?

From the latest pictures posted of the fruit bowl at the St. Regis, it doesn't look like it's made of glass to me. The base looks like it's made from metal. So where did all this broken glass come from? Early reports suggested that TS's fingerprints had been found on broken glass (in whose room, I'm not entirely sure).

Getting back to the duct tape, again early reports said the the body was wrapped up in a hotel bedsheet secured by duct tape (entirely possible). Perhaps there wasn't enough left to secure the suitcase which wouldn't close properly. A lot of effort must have gone into stuffing the poor victim's body in that suitcase and I don't think TS did all that on his own.

 

[Curious Me]

...snipped...
Just a thought ...

~8am HM supposedly "urged" TS to visit the M's room [317]. Did HM also "urge" TS to bring the intact fruit bowl? Perhaps HM had already broken a glass item in the M's room [317], thought she had cleaned it up sufficiently, but needed a replacement item?

???

Urged TS, Heather urged him to visit her mother when she would know that was the worse possible time to go try to have a pleasant visit and smooth things over. Understandably her mother was probably upset and needed to sleep, and there was no reasonable reason on earth for TS to show up at that hour with a darn fruit bowl. I think what you're suggesting here is worth considering, Quester.

I'd expect SWM to be upset finding TS in the room. I don't care what SWM said to TS, racial or otherwise. That is no excuse to beat someone to death. I certainly hope the Judges don't let that be an excuse as TS shouldn't have gone into that room to begin with. Actually, it's possible SWM didn't have a chance to say anything to TS, if Heather had already used a fruit bowl on her. Their story is full of lies and I believe nothing they say. IMO, HM had a definite plan and TS went along with it.

MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Reading this statement again ....

During the argument, as Schaefer was standing by the bed, von Wiese-Mack had her hands around his throat as if to strangle him - a scene that was re-enacted and photographed as part of Monday's reconstruction.
Schaefer has said he then grabbed the metal handle of the fruit bowl and hit von Wiese-Mack once with it, then continued to beat her to death as Mack hid in the bathroom.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/daughte...bot-lawyer-20141013-115k3o.html#ixzz3GFsPBGFb

So little Sheila was reaching up and choking tall Tommy with her 62-year-old hands, so obviously no space between them for manouvering. Yet, somehow, TS managed to get the handle (or the fruit bowl) between them or above them and swing hard enough to smash Sheila in the face. Then HM fled into the bathroom instead of screaming 'stop, Tommy, stop' and rushing to help her mother and to stop Tommy.

I would have liked to see that reenactment. I can imagine the police nodding and saying 'okay, sure ...' . While the lawyers stood there and thought 'gulp, this doesn't look so believable, just gotta fake some confidence here'.

 

[Kamille]

Reading this statement again ....

During the argument, as Schaefer was standing by the bed, von Wiese-Mack had her hands around his throat as if to strangle him - a scene that was re-enacted and photographed as part of Monday's reconstruction.
Schaefer has said he then grabbed the metal handle of the fruit bowl and hit von Wiese-Mack once with it, then continued to beat her to death as Mack hid in the bathroom.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/daughte...bot-lawyer-20141013-115k3o.html#ixzz3GFsPBGFb

So little Sheila was reaching up and choking tall Tommy with her 62-year-old hands, so obviously no space between them for manouvering. Yet, somehow, TS managed to get the handle (or the fruit bowl) between them or above them and swing hard enough to smash Sheila in the face. Then HM fled into the bathroom instead of screaming 'stop, Tommy, stop' and rushing to help her mother and to stop Tommy.

I would have liked to see that reenactment. I can imagine the police nodding and saying 'okay, sure ...' . While the lawyers stood there and thought 'gulp, this doesn't look so believable, just gotta fake some confidence here'.

LOL SouthAussie.

Actually I picture it more like Tommy coming into the room, passing through the sitting area and standing beside Sheila's bed while she slept with a peace offering of fruit in a lovely take home dish and awakening her gently to apologize for charging his airfare to Bali to her credit card, that nasty little Conrad hotel incident back in Chicago, making her get up in the middle of the night to put another hotel room on her credit card for him and...oh yeah...having unprotected sex with her daughter.

And then that crazy bi polar Sheila jumped out of bed half naked and starting screaming at him and calling him names and grabbed his throat. Poor Tommy was still holding that darn fruit basket so what else could he do but push Sheila away from him with his free hand and smash her in the face with that fruit basket repeatedly until she was dead right? While poor little timid Heather ran out of the room in horror.

Makes perfect sense to me. :gaah:

Premeditated...both of them.

MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Well, I'm just glad that Tommy was able to calm himself down enough after that horrible, horrible name-calling and choking incident so that he didn't rush into the bathroom and murder HM with the toothbrush holder or hair dryer. Otherwise HM would miss out on staying in that beautiful 5-star Hotel Kerobokan for an extended vacation. And he would have had to find someone else to have after-murder sex with.

 

[Orange Tabby]

... that beautiful 5-star Hotel Kerobokan ...

[Obviously SBM!]

I understand Glorious Prisons International, a respected guide devoted to the study of the most fashionable and chic houses of incarceration, has evaluated Kerobokan.

Their rating? One bar!

:jail:

 

[Kamille]

Well, I'm just glad that Tommy was able to calm himself down enough after that horrible, horrible name-calling and choking incident so that he didn't rush into the bathroom and murder HM with the toothbrush holder or hair dryer. Otherwise HM would miss out on staying in that beautiful 5-star Hotel Kerobokan for an extended vacation. And he would have had to find someone else to have after-murder sex with.

Oh yes...thank goodness. Because he would have had a heck of a time fitting both of them into that suitcase and lifting it into a taxi. :winko:

You know I was thinking about why HM wouldn't have turned on TS and thrown him under the bus right away in that hotel room when she realized her mother was dead if they weren't both in on this. Not because she was horrified or anything, but because she would realize that he had just made her a wealthy young woman and that she didn't need him or anyone at that point. I think I got a headache from my eyes rolling back in my head when I read the part about how she had to decide between her mother of almost 19 years and the father of her baby in that article. The father of her baby whom she had known about 3 months and probably had sex with a handful of times.

MOO