GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #1,021
I give up. Judge Cohen is either completely ignorant to what's going on or he is completely aware and is choosing to allow this bribe to get HM (and probably TS) a light sentence. The level of manipulation is astounding and he's just sticking his head in the sand. It doesn't require much to get up to speed on the corruption in that country. He won't even listen to WW's attorney.

She's suicidal? WTF? Did he miss her smiling pic on Skype chatting with those reporters while eating fries and getting her new prison girlfriend's to give out a holla to the U.S. media? How about the pics of her in her lipstick, eyeliner and push up leopard bra heading to court. And she should be suicidal. She slaughtered her mother. But she's not.

So Soenardi won't give an itemized statement for anything but he will send a blackmail letter. Send money or this young lady might die. So Cohn sends another $25 grand, and not for her medical costs. WHAT FOR COHEN?!?

He is outrageous and I'm outraged. No one is going to be able to stop this.

MOO
 
  • #1,022
Don’t give up, Kamille. :noooo:

Maybe William Wiese is getting set to appeal Judge Cohen’s decision in a higher court. I think Gitana said earlier that he can do that. Especially now that he has run his course with Judge Cohen … provided credible information, to no avail.

And maybe it will turn out as ajaylee has mentioned. With AC & MS’ execution woes going on, and Pres Joko taking such a tough public stance on the matter, maybe the judiciary will come down hard on these two murderous foreign citizens to show us foreigners that people cannot just fly to Bali and get away with major crimes.
 
  • #1,023
  • #1,024
I keep in mind this statement from Cohen, when funds are outgoing.
“We can’t protect people from themselves”

http:// http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-chicago/7/71/306114/judge-changes-mind-says-bali-attorney-can-paid-trust-fund-murder-defendant-heather-mack

I doubt, by the end of all this, HM will have a dime to her name.

Oh, I believe that you are right about that Bugbear. But for me it is not just about the money. I think that Heather deserves to be in prison for a long, long time - preferably the rest of her life - for what she did to her mother. That will be justice to me.

And if the money is giving Heather a way to wangle out of the life sentence that she deserves, then that ........ sucks. :mad:

.
 
  • #1,025
Oh, I believe that you are right about that Bugbear. But for me it is not just about the money. I think that Heather deserves to be in prison for a long, long time

For HM & TS it was about $ before Bali. How befitting to be stuck in a Bali prison, no pizzas, no successful appeals & no way home. One exception for HM, Stella might be the pawn she intends, that would be sad & criminal imo. Only hope a guardianship is set up b4 HM exhausts her funds.

Either way, the Court can not deny paying her legitimate bills, she seems to think 1.5 mil is a lifetime of $. Her legal bills are already close to 1/2 mil? not even a month into trial.
 
  • #1,026
Catching up on some random thoughts.

Orange Tabby, fantastic job researching prior evidentiary coverage. I also tried to find an explanation and found nothing definitive. I couldn't find any general Indonesian prohibitions, although there was mention that the photographers were limited in number during at least parts of the Corby trial because of space (the tripods). I couldn't find anything indicating it was standard judicial practice to close the court during this stage of the trial.

Conclusion: beats me.

Judge Cohen: I'm not sure what's going on here, and I could be wrong, but I thought from the beginning that he didn't seem to like WW. At first, I thought perhaps it was what I call the 'white knight/daddy' syndrome: sometimes it seems like young females develop odd relationships with the older men around them: attorneys, judges, jailers. Caylee Anthony comes to mind, possibly Arias. I thought Cohen was awfully quick, based on the available public evidence, to act like WW might be a heartless gold-digger. I thought he saw a helpless preggers 19-year-old trapped in a terrible third-world country.

I think he's a little wiser about HM now, but it still seems like he really doesn't like WW and I don't understand why. I'm glad WW at least got the concerns about corruption documented. It wouldn't surprise me if HM got off, returned to the US, and tried to sue her trustee for mismanagement of all the $ she pays Soenardi. This puts the responsibility for supporting Indonesian corruption squarely on the shoulders of Cohen and Mackoff (and, of course, HM).

South Aussie, the Indonesia attorney fees are problematic. There does seem to be evidence that Indonesian attorney fees, not unlike US attorney fees, rise significantly when a wealthy individual is involved. I don't even want to guess what OJ Simpson's final legal bills came to. Besides, initially Elkin agreed to handle HM's case for $150K. If Soenardi was challenged, he could point out (rightfully) that if Elkin was going to get $150K when he can't even practice law in Indonesia, surely a 'death penalty specialist high-profile Indonesian lawyer' like Soenardi is worth just as much. To some extent, there's a feeling that the more expensive your lawyer, the better the chance you will get off.

OT, but....I've been reading a bit on another trial starting right now. It's a drug trial, New Zealander named de Malmanche, he's got a pro bono high-profile lawyer from New Zealand, Craig Tuck, trying to work with him. Apparently Tuck contacted Soenardi and some of Corby's old attorneys. He 'consulted' with Soenardi, who was supposed to ensure that de Malmanche had an Indonesian attorney with him before talking to the police.

Well....Soenardi's name is no longer being mentioned, Tuck was not happy to find out that the police went ahead and questioned de Malmanche without a lawyer present. Why? Well, Tuck has announced he's working for free, de Malmanche hasn't got any money and his family have only been able to raise <$15K. In other words, not worth the "death penalty specialist's" time. :(

One other bit about this trial that struck me: the trial was supposed to start this week but the first appearance got cancelled because the prosecutor didn't supply a licensed translator.

eta: Bugbear beat me to it, but I also wonder if HM really has any clue how money works? Is she doing the math? Every call to Scifo is billed; he got the OK for $48K, but is expected to bill another $50K when this is over. I find it hard to believe Elkin is going to walk away without getting at least two weeks' worth of pay and expenses, and I doubt that we've heard the last of Favia, whose billing was separate from Elkin's original $150K. HM won't be broke, by any means, but still....

I'm crossing my fingers that if and when HM returns to the US, she's met by the FBI (murder-for-hire), SS (social security fraud because she collected $ when she was not in school), and WW ('slayer statute').

BTW...what's with Cohen releasing $25K? Bad journalism? He originally said three payments, $150K total. Or did they 'disallow' some of Soenardi's charges? (like the half that is covering TS?)
 
  • #1,027
South Aussie, the Indonesia attorney fees are problematic. There does seem to be evidence that Indonesian attorney fees, not unlike US attorney fees, rise significantly when a wealthy individual is involved. I don't even want to guess what OJ Simpson's final legal bills came to. Besides, initially Elkin agreed to handle HM's case for $150K. If Soenardi was challenged, he could point out (rightfully) that if Elkin was going to get $150K when he can't even practice law in Indonesia, surely a 'death penalty specialist high-profile Indonesian lawyer' like Soenardi is worth just as much. To some extent, there's a feeling that the more expensive your lawyer, the better the chance you will get off.

I see what you are saying, ajaylee. But surely, to anyone, a lawyer charging 7+ years of the average monthly salary would seem a tad extreme for any murder trial.
US$150,000 = 1,948,200,000 Indonesian Rupiah ... a phenomenal amount of money in Indonesia.
I cannot see how that can be credibly justified, especially for a non-celebrity like HM. :no:
 
  • #1,028
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bali-trust-allegations-met-20150227-story.html
"I am not sure if you are aware but my client is suicidal," attorney Ary Soenardi wrote in a letter emailed this week to the interim trustee in the case.

"She is very depressed and often mentions taking her own life because she does not believe I will remain as her lawyer if my retainer fee is not met immediately."

Firstly, I don't believe that Heather Mack is suicidal.
But what Soenardi has highlighted now is something else indeed - very vile - and a very stupid excuse used to get money from this trust fund.

Because, as I see it, HM's suicide would not be taking just her own life, but also her baby's life as well!
Isn't that premeditated murder - and doesn't that smack of the crime she is already facing.
It highlights exactly what HM is about again. She and now Soenardi are saying 'give me the money' - or someone will die.

Where in the h*ell is the lawyer representing this baby's best interest!!!
The child bearer is purportedly saying she is going to kill herself!
Stella is at grave risk of being killed.
Is that not ringing alarm bells to Favia or to the anyone?
This is the best reason one could possibly have to get Stella out of the arms of HM as soon as she is born - and away from HM - an to have Stella adopted to a family that HM has no contact with.
HM is said by Soendari to be about to take the life of the next beneficiary (and herself) - not because she has a court sentence of the Death Penalty - but because she cant have her money, and either can he.

Well, we know what it do!

All I can think of is to say: Somebody do something to put this BS to an end - it is totally out of hand. :scared:
 
  • #1,029
I keep in mind this statement from Cohen, when funds are outgoing.
“We can’t protect people from themselves”

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news-chicago/7/71/306114/judge-changes-mind-says-bali-attorney-can-paid-trust-fund-murder-defendant-heather-mack

I doubt, by the end of all this, HM will have a dime to her name.

IMO Cohen has the complete wrong idea about all of this. He's thinking that AS is trying to fleece HM with these legal fees and he is not doing anything for her. It's like he's trying to protect HM from getting ripped off. He is not listening to the argument that these fees will pay bribes to judges and other court officials for her to completely get off on any charges related to the murder of her mother. Like he's either not listening to what WW and his lawyer are saying, can't comprehend it or is choosing to disregard it because there is no "proof". What's even worse is that he refuses to allow a hearing so that Dorkin can bring in the proof of how the system works for foreigners with money. Proof that these are incredulous fees for any attorney in a third world country and that this lawyer in particular has been singled out as participating in bribes and corruption.

Which leads me to believe that for whatever reason, he's got a soft spot for HM and he's going to be fine with her getting away with murdering her mother.

How can he say that he thinks the letter Soenardi sent is "emotional blackmail" and then give in to it with another 25 grand being released? He has now released 75 grand without one stitch of evidence of what this "lawyer's" expenses are.

MOO
 
  • #1,030
I see what you are saying, ajaylee. But surely, to anyone, a lawyer charging 7+ years of the average monthly salary would seem a tad extreme for any murder trial.
US$150,000 = 1,948,200,000 Indonesian Rupiah ... a phenomenal amount of money in Indonesia.
I cannot see how that can be credibly justified, especially for a non-celebrity like HM. :no:

Well, remember, we're talking about a 'death penalty' trial. Even in the US, that makes the price go up. I'm not sure if it's still true, but at one time, at least in some jurisdictions, only 'death-qualified' public defenders could handle a death penalty case.

For one example of US pricing: average annual US salary is around $50K. Jodi Arias' legal bills have topped $2 million.

It's also important to put these costs in perspective: the $150K is what Elkin was asking for and he can't even practice in Bali. As it turned out, HM managed to do a better job of recruiting a local attorney than Elkin did. Favia has done even less for her $126K. And Scifo?

I find the US fees far more shocking the the Bali fees. I understand the Bali fees - they're based on ability to pay for bribes. I am more shocked at the cost of administering disbursements from a trust, which is largely just a matter of paperwork.
 
  • #1,031
Fig Tree, if Favia was really representing Stella, I would think she'd be doing everything in her power right now to get HM placed in solitary confinement on 7x24 suicide watch until the child is born, at which time HM either drops the whole suicide/depression act or Stella is removed from her and placed in a foster environment.

Problem solved. No more 'emotional blackmail', she can make her court appearances shackles (for Stella's protection). Just the fact that she is suicidal and depressed (with no instant cure available) should be grounds for removing Stella from her care as soon as she is born, for her own safety.
 
  • #1,032
I don't think HM is suicidal. I think that was the Bali Lawyer's plea. I want to note he said "his retainer" is not been paid, that's not even billable time he may still present. The verbage maybe, but I still read retainer as 150k. Cohen said ok 150, but give me statement of said representation. Miscommunication? Bali says retainer, Chicago says what? Put it in writing.
 
  • #1,033
I don't think HM is suicidal. I think that was the Bali Lawyer's plea. I want to note he said "his retainer" is not been paid, that's not even billable time he may still present. The verbage maybe, but I still read retainer as 150k.

No, I don't think she's suicidal either, and I think we'd hear her say so quite quickly if they did decide to put her in solitary confinement on 7x24 suicide watch and take the baby away at birth.

That wording jumped out at me, too! My understanding was that the retainer was an upfront charge, not the final bill (which could be much much more). I think he's calling it a 'retainer' because he wants to make sure he gets the $ upfront.
 
  • #1,034
  • #1,035
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bali-trust-allegations-met-20150227-story.html


Firstly, I don't believe that Heather Mack is suicidal.
But what Soenardi has highlighted now is something else indeed - very vile - and a very stupid excuse used to get money from this trust fund.

Because, as I see it, HM's suicide would not be taking just her own life, but also her baby's life as well!
Isn't that premeditated murder - and doesn't that smack of the crime she is already facing.
It highlights exactly what HM is about again. She and now Soenardi are saying 'give me the money' - or someone will die.

Where in the h*ell is the lawyer representing this baby's best interest!!!
The child bearer is purportedly saying she is going to kill herself!
Stella is at grave risk of being killed.
Is that not ringing alarm bells to Favia or to the anyone?
This is the best reason one could possibly have to get Stella out of the arms of HM as soon as she is born - and away from HM - an to have Stella adopted to a family that HM has no contact with.
HM is said by Soendari to be about to take the life of the next beneficiary (and herself) - not because she has a court sentence of the Death Penalty - but because she cant have her money, and either can he.

Well, we know what it do!

All I can think of is to say: Somebody do something to put this BS to an end - it is totally out of hand. :scared:

There is no lawyer representing the baby's best interest. The one who tried to insert herself into this cannot practice law in Indonesia. And to think that any unborn child in Indonesia would automatically get some kind Of GAL because the mother is in prison on murder charges would probably be very unlikely. It's a third world country. Human rights are not their strong point.

We can't look at this as to what would be done in the US in a similar situation. HM is not suicidal, it's a blackmail ploy. AS knows it, HM knows it, the Judge and all attorneys in the US know it and most of all, the officials at Kerobokan know it. Now if it would help to get the money easier and quicker, I'm sure the officials at Kerobokan would play up the suicide angle and throw her in hospital for a few bucks and I would have expected to hear something like that but Cohen sent AS another 25 grand to tide him over for this week. :rolleyes: I believe Schapelle Corby went this route towards the end of her stay. In fact I think that was how she ended up getting out. I wonder who sent the money to help with her situation? ;)

MOO
 
  • #1,036
I think Cohen is really worried that if he holds the money up and anything happens to Stella, he'll be accused of having blood on his hands. Once Stella is born, he'll breathe a lot easier - and maybe take a tougher approach. Perhaps he's regretting the haste of his early, ill-informed decisions on HM's behalf and against WW.

Soenardi's all too aware of this and is determined to get while the getting is good, because he's also concerned that the money will be harder to get when HM can no longer threaten use Stella as a hostage and bargaining chip. Considering he only got $25K this time, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see some real shenanigans from HM in the coming weeks. Cross your fingers that Stella arrives right on time.
 
  • #1,037
Well, remember, we're talking about a 'death penalty' trial. Even in the US, that makes the price go up. I'm not sure if it's still true, but at one time, at least in some jurisdictions, only 'death-qualified' public defenders could handle a death penalty case.

For one example of US pricing: average annual US salary is around $50K. Jodi Arias' legal bills have topped $2 million.

It's also important to put these costs in perspective: the $150K is what Elkin was asking for and he can't even practice in Bali. As it turned out, HM managed to do a better job of recruiting a local attorney than Elkin did. Favia has done even less for her $126K. And Scifo?

I find the US fees far more shocking the the Bali fees. I understand the Bali fees - they're based on ability to pay for bribes. I am more shocked at the cost of administering disbursements from a trust, which is largely just a matter of paperwork.

We cannot compare this to anything even close to a US death penalty murder trial. You have to realize what attorneys in the US do for that money. It's a completely different legal system over there. The only way you can compare it is to ask yourself what a US attorney is charging for and then realize that a defense attorney in Indonesia does pretty much none of that. And let's face it the private practice rates in the US are ridiculous too. It's amazing how a public defender can get the job done for a fraction of the cost. But private attorneys do have to pay for offices and staff, which I must point out, it appears AS has neither of those as well. Not even a website advertising his firm and his services. But plenty of other attorneys in Bali do.

I do agree, however, that the lawyers in the US who are holding out their hands for these exorbitant fees because they took it upon themselves to get involved and jump on the bandwagon when they knew there was nothing they could do are shocking. Shame on every one of them. Takes ambulance chasing to a whole new level.

MOO
 
  • #1,038
I think Cohen is really worried that if he holds the money up and anything happens to Stella, he'll be accused of having blood on his hands. Once Stella is born, he'll breathe a lot easier - and maybe take a tougher approach. Perhaps he's regretting the haste of his early, ill-informed decisions on HM's behalf and against WW.

Soenardi's all too aware of this and is determined to get while the getting is good, because he's also concerned that the money will be harder to get when HM can no longer threaten use Stella as a hostage and bargaining chip. Considering he only got $25K this time, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see some real shenanigans from HM in the coming weeks. Cross your fingers that Stella arrives right on time.


Cohen doesn't seem to be concerned about the baby at all. That's why he shut down Favia. The baby has no claim to the estate at the moment, only the mother. And he's not using good judgement with what the mother is actually needing this money for IMO.

MOO
 
  • #1,039
Cohen's concern in Chancery Trial is not about the baby, it is strictly a trust fund release issue. He is not in a Guardianship court case. $ only. Baby Stella case will probably be in Bali as well, unless Guardianship is filed in Bali (hence Favia) I am thinking. In short, you can not blame Cohen outside of his jurisdiction.
 
  • #1,040
Fig Tree, if Favia was really representing Stella, I would think she'd be doing everything in her power right now to get HM placed in solitary confinement on 7x24 suicide watch until the child is born, at which time HM either drops the whole suicide/depression act or Stella is removed from her and placed in a foster environment.

Problem solved. No more 'emotional blackmail', she can make her court appearances shackles (for Stella's protection). Just the fact that she is suicidal and depressed (with no instant cure available) should be grounds for removing Stella from her care as soon as she is born, for her own safety.



Yes ajaylee, where is the medical documentation to support the claims - and why is HM (and the baby in particular) not in a special care facility and being monitered 24/7.

Considering these other reported statements from HM - its HM that is the danger to Stella - Stella is not safe at all, if reports are true from Soenardi.
Source: "She's (Stella) healthy and it is completely safe here and (it's a) completely fair country."

Source: Mack, who is due to give birth April 1, said her fear was "more for my daughter than me."


as for Soenardi's claim:
Soenardi said Mack also is in debt at the local hospital for ultrasounds and other medical services and may be forced to deliver the baby in her detention cell.
His letter continued: "She does not deserve to go through this financial battle. I just hope her child is healthy and she does not take her own life."

I cannot see at all that HM would deliver in her cell.
The child is supposed to have a representative that makes sure that she is not delivered in a jail cell - the drama of Soenardi's statement if they believe that that scenario is inevitable on the dependence of weather Soenardi gets his money or not. Im sure the trust fund can pay the outstanding bill directly to the hospital. What? No Paypal? (sarcasm convulsion)

So what has Soenardi done with the money for HM hospital treatment that was already given?
How many times has HM been to hospital?



The things is - (benefit goes to the child) - this is now in writing - and from HM's legal representative.
HM can not damage herself, without damaging the baby. I glad this is an official request

and if my lawyer said this - I'd sack him immediately...
"She is very depressed and often mentions taking her own life because she does not believe I will remain as her lawyer if my retainer fee is not met immediately."
So, Soenardi states to the Trustee that HM is going to take her own life and the life of her baby because Soenardi cant get his retainer?
Totally outrageous and inappropriate for a lawyer to use the said threat of suicide of his client and her child to get money - and not even one concern stated for the health of either - just the health of his bank account.
I hope Jeffrey Winters is putting that into his next study on corruption in Indonesia.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
113
Guests online
1,202
Total visitors
1,315

Forum statistics

Threads
632,316
Messages
18,624,599
Members
243,083
Latest member
100summers
Back
Top