GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

[Orange Tabby]

I posted this yesterday:

From a Chicago Tribune article almost exactly a year ago:

"About one-third of the trust has been spent on legal fees and investment losses." [my bold]

I don't know what's happened in the past year.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-heather-mack-trust-fund-met-20160209-story.html

 

[Kamille]

I posted this yesterday:

Quote Originally Posted by Orange Tabby View Post
From a Chicago Tribune article almost exactly a year ago:

"About one-third of the trust has been spent on legal fees and investment losses." [my bold]

I don't know what's happened in the past year.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...209-story.html

Yes but that was in the first year. We know about half of that went to Soenardi. And I'd imagine they've figured out how to avoid the investment losses at this point. Even at a low rate of return right now, they're still probably making a lot more than they're sending to HM. And I have no idea what they are paying in legal fees now and to whom. I understand the GAL is voluntary, Favia was already turned down once so I don't know what agreement she has come to in order to get paid and I assume the court fees for HM are coming out of this?

:waitasec:

MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Wow...thanks for those FigTree

I don't think I've ever seen the Chancery Division one. Still reading through it.

Did anyone find the "accessory to murder" article in that Indonesian Penal Code?

I think it may fall under Articles 56 and 57 ... which are about anyone who is an accessory to a 'punishable act'. So, they are not separate articles specific just to murder.


Chapter: V. PARTICIPATION IN PUNISHABLE ACTS (pg 12 of the penal code)
https://www.unodc.org/res/cld/document/idn/indonesian_penal_code_html/I.1_Criminal_Code.pdf

Article 56
As accomplices to a crime shall be punished:
1st, the persons who deliberately aid in the commission of the crime;
2nd-ly, the persons who deliberately provide opportunity, means or information for the commission of the crime.

Article 57
(1) The maximum of the basic punishments imposed upon the crime in complicity shall be mitigated by one third.
(2) If it concerns a crime on which the capital punishment or a crime on which life imprisonment is imposed, a maximum imprisonment of fifteen years shall be imposed.
(3) The additional punishment for complicity shall be the same as for the crime itself.
(4) In determining the punishment only those acts shall be considered which the accomplice has deliberately facilitated or furthered, together with their consequences.

 

[nightwatch]

No idea. It started out at 1.56million. Not sure how much has been spent on lawyer's fees, sent to HM in Indonesia and how much has been gained or lost in investment income.

I'd say it has to still be close to the original amount. I'm sure the return on investments is higher than what they are currently sending to HM.

Maybe that's what WW should have done as soon as he heard of his sister's murder and who was responsible for it. Invested the whole thing in a bad stock.

MOO

What about inheritance tax? Idk maybe around 16%. Will the government collect even though she killed her mother. If the Slayer rule goes into effect tax will be collected from Stella? Bulk of my parents estate was gifted out while alive to avoid some of the taxes. My point is money will dwindle. HM not wealthy just a little more comfortable than average. Jmo

ciao

 

[Kamille]

I think it may fall under Articles 56 and 57 ... which are about anyone who is an accessory to a 'punishable act'. So, they are not separate articles specific just to murder.


Chapter: V. PARTICIPATION IN PUNISHABLE ACTS (pg 12 of the penal code)
https://www.unodc.org/res/cld/document/idn/indonesian_penal_code_html/I.1_Criminal_Code.pdf

Article 56
As accomplices to a crime shall be punished:
1st, the persons who deliberately aid in the commission of the crime;
2nd-ly, the persons who deliberately provide opportunity, means or information for the commission of the crime.

Article 57
(1) The maximum of the basic punishments imposed upon the crime in complicity shall be mitigated by one third.
(2) If it concerns a crime on which the capital punishment or a crime on which life imprisonment is imposed, a maximum imprisonment of fifteen years shall be imposed.
(3) The additional punishment for complicity shall be the same as for the crime itself.
(4) In determining the punishment only those acts shall be considered which the accomplice has deliberately facilitated or furthered, together with their consequences.

Oops...yeah sorry. I did eventually find out which article and I edited my post after reading Soenardi's email to the courts.

Denpasar, 28 April 2015
To. whom it may concern:
I am sending the following email hoping it will give clear up matters relating
to my clients specific charge from the court. Heather Mack has been charged
with article 56 whjch means Heather was found guilty of only accessory, in
Indonesia although she was accessory after the fact we do not have 2
different charges. I will send court documents later this week hopefully
clarifying this.
I would like it to be noted that i have had a tough time financially assisting
Heather with the proper help as I did not have the full amount of my legal fee
within the time frame given by judge Cohen. I am asking to please be given
my legal bill that is currently outstanding.
Today I have informed by the court that the Prosecutor has appealed the
verdict. It is Heather right to appoint any lawyer to assist and represent her
during the appeal trial to defend her self. If she wants my service to further
assist her in her appeal, my fee is $200,000 and it has to be paid quickly and
in 1 payment.
I am also confirming that Heather has right to keep baby Stella in Kerobokan
jail until 2 and that the child is breast feed by her mother. .

I think I also saw something in that Penal Code about the sentence being increased by one third if the victim was a person's mother, father, sister, brother? I bet they never took that into account either.

 

[Kamille]

What about inheritance tax? Idk maybe around 16%. Will the government collect even though she killed her mother. If the Slayer rule goes into effect tax will be collected from Stella? Bulk of my parents estate was gifted out while alive to avoid some of the taxes. My point is money will dwindle. HM not wealthy just a little more comfortable than average. Jmo

ciao

Sorry but I'm not American so I'm not up on inheritance taxes but I think we discussed it at one point and I think others indicated that's why it was set up as a trust. To avoid such taxes. I'm sure Orange Tabby or one of the others would have a better handle on that.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Someone asked how much was in the trust.

No idea. It started out at 1.56million. Not sure how much has been spent on lawyer's fees, sent to HM in Indonesia and how much has been gained or lost in investment income.

I'd say it has to still be close to the original amount. I'm sure the return on investments is higher than what they are currently sending to HM.

Maybe that's what WW should have done as soon as he heard of his sister's murder and who was responsible for it. Invested the whole thing in a bad stock.

MOO

BBM

The point of my repost is this: if less than a year ago the trust was at roughly one million, I don't see how it could now be anywhere close to the original $1.56 million.

 

[Kamille]

Did I read in the provisions of that trust that HM cannot get access to the bulk of the trust until after age 30 and that prior to that the trustee is still in control and will issue funds from the income or principal of the trust based on her needs? And that if she is incarcerated after age 30 it remains the same? And if the trust goes to her child, which in this case will be Stella, that child does not have access until age 30 either? And the trustee will issue funds for her needs as well until such time?

So if HM loses the slayer statute, and the funds go to Stella, it will still be another 28 years before she can get access to the full trust.

If HM wins the slayer statute, and she has to return to the US after her time is up, she's still under 30 and finds herself imprisoned there for the conspiracy, then no one benefits from the trust until such time as HM is released from prison? Or does Stella get access to the one third that HM bequeathed to her? And does she still have to wait until she is 30 to get the bulk of it?

What a mess.

MOO

 

[Orange Tabby]

Sorry but I'm not American so I'm not up on inheritance taxes but I think we discussed it at one point and I think others indicated that's why it was set up as a trust. To avoid such taxes. I'm sure Orange Tabby or one of the others would have a better handle on that.

I know nothing about this.

Too bad GraceHatter isn't still around, I remember her writing authoritative posts on trusts.

 

[Kamille]

Someone asked how much was in the trust.



BBM

The point of my repost is this: if less than a year ago the trust was at roughly one million, I don't see how it could now be anywhere close to the original $1.56 million.

That's true. What would a good rate of investment be down there anyway?

 

[Orange Tabby]

Or does Stella get access to the one third that HM bequeathed to her? And does she still have to wait until she is 30 to get the bulk of it?

SBM

The attempt to pass a third of Sheila's trust to Stella was a desperate ploy in my view. Heather and her lawyers figured no one would deny disbursements to a cuddly little tyke. And Heather would then plunder that cash.

But Heather can only give away what is hers to begin with. I'm not positive about this, but I think that since the time Heather was found guilty, Cohen has taken the position that until the Slayer matter is resolved, the trust is in limbo. That means Heather can't give away any of the trust. It might not be hers to give away. And I think he will eventually rule that Heather has no right whatsoever to the trust.

So everyone waits for Cohen to pull his finger out and settle the Slayer matter.

I'll comment on other aspects later, after I've done more research.

 

[Kamille]

SBM

The attempt to pass a third of Sheila's trust to Stella was a desperate ploy in my view. Heather and her lawyers figured no one would deny disbursements to a cuddly little tyke. And Heather would then plunder that cash.

But Heather can only give away what is hers to begin with. I'm not positive about this, but I think that since the time Heather was found guilty, Cohen has taken the position that until the Slayer matter is resolved, the trust is in limbo. That means Heather can't give away any of the trust. It might not be hers to give away. And I think he will eventually rule that Heather has no right whatsoever to the trust.

So everyone waits for Cohen to pull his finger out and settle the Slayer matter.

I'll comment on other aspects later, after I've done more research.

BBM

:floorlaugh:

 

[Kamille]

Hmmm....we've got 4 guests here in the middle of the night. What time is it in Bali?

 

[Orange Tabby]

Hmmm....we've got 4 guests here in the middle of the night. What time is it in Bali?

Interesting!

I asked Siri. 2:58 p.m. A fine time in the afternoon to check out just how screwed you are.

 

[FigTree]

Wow...thanks for those FigTree

I don't think I've ever seen the Chancery Division one. Still reading through it.

Did anyone find the "accessory to murder" article in that Indonesian Penal Code?

ETA: Okay Soenardi claims that it is article 56 in the Penal Code that she was convicted of. Should have been article 340 IMO.

ETA - corrections made to my post on this...
Yes, I saw that - and he outlines that in his letter -
That Penal Code doc is from 1999, and in 2016 there were some minimal changes to the law definitions, though that doesn't negate any of the charge descriptions as they were sentenced before any changes.
There is plenty there to to read.

 

[FigTree]

Interesting!

I asked Siri. 2:58 p.m. A fine time in the afternoon to check out just how screwed you are.

There will be some reading going on tonight maybe :read:

 

[Orange Tabby]

I don't want to derail discussion of the matters truly important to this thread, but I've been trying to do searches for old posts and found that I just can't do it. I am somehow too stupid to figure out the WebSleuths search function. One thing I want to do is to search for some of my own old posts here. I can't do it!

For example, I know I once did a long post on all the charges against the murderers, drawn directly from the Indonesian criminal code. But I don't know how to find that.

Any help? Can you please prove that you can teach an old Tabby new tricks?

 

[FigTree]

They would be in the threads 1, 2, 3, or 4

Find the forum AWAITING TRIAL

Type in the search bar in that forum: Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #

They should come up.
There is 4 of them

When they come up, click on one to open the thread

Then Search in Advanced mode in the thread you opened - and search for threads under your username - this gives you the option to search your own posts in that thread and use keywords

Hope that's right and hope that works.

Here are the thread links for ya :

Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #1
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Wiese+Mack,+62,+found+dead+suitcase,+Aug+2014

Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #2
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Wiese+Mack,+62,+found+dead+suitcase,+Aug+2014

Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Wiese+Mack,+62,+found+dead+suitcase,+Aug+2014

Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Wiese+Mack,+62,+found+dead+suitcase,+Aug+2014

 

[Kamille]

I don't want to derail discussion of the matters truly important to this thread, but I've been trying to do searches for old posts and found that I just can't do it. I am somehow too stupid to figure out the WebSleuths search function. One thing I want to do is to search for some of my own old posts here. I can't do it!

For example, I know I once did a long post on all the charges against the murderers, drawn directly from the Indonesian criminal code. But I don't know how to find that.

Any help? Can you please prove that you can teach an old Tabby new tricks?

If you click on your own name at the top of your screen, you will see a tab on your profile that says "find latest posts". See how far that goes back for you to see if you can find what you're looking for.

HTH

 

[Orange Tabby]

If you click on your own name at the top of your screen, you will see a tab on your profile that says "find latest posts". See how far that goes back for you to see if you can find what you're looking for.

HTH

It doesn't go nearly far enough back -- that's the problem. I want to find stuff I posted years ago, in threads now closed.