GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #5

[Orange Tabby]

My bold...
Its not in Stella's best interest - its in Heather Mack's Best interest.

and I find that although this is taking place in Bali, and due to the overseeing charity and the carers being Australian based, I would hope that the outline of the proposed care takes and the charity would, in some way, take into consideration recommendations from the ongoing (and recent) Child Abuse Australian Royal Commission inquiry which has an aspect relating to Children In Residential Care.

Bottom line - Out of family placement is the last option.
______________________________________________________________________________

Research finds that children in residential care feel unsafe
19 December, 2016
http://www.childabuseroyalcommissio...rch-finds-that-children-in-residential-care-f

SBM

The report you cite is about residential care facilities run by the state. I only had a quick look, but couldn't find any reference to placements within families, which is Stella's proposed future arrangement.

I agree strongly with you about how terrible it has been that this poor child has lived two years in a prison.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Chicago-area grandmother's request for guardianship of toddler in Bali prison denied

After court Friday, Goldberg said they'll be back before the probate judge March 14 seeking permanent guardianship on Walker's behalf.

SBM

I don't understand this. Cohen is the probate Judge, right? He's already said his court is the wrong place to argue for guardianship. So why is Goldberg (attorney for Tommy's mother, Kia Walker) going back there?

Kamille's questioning of his smarts seems very much on point.

 

[Orange Tabby]

Hi all - Been following this case from the very beginning and I usually just :lurk: on this thread, but had a question...

I was going to ask about this guardian ad litem - IF and when Mack is out of prison, can she have her child back? But then I looked it up myself!

Guardians ad litem are persons appointed by the court to represent “the best interests of the child” in court proceedings. In family court, guardians are appointed in contested custody and visitation cases, name changes, adoptions, DSS abuse and neglect cases, and termination of parental rights cases.

So the bold ^^ they (Mack & Schaefer) "have" terminted their parental rights??

Is Stella going into Residential Care or going to "live" with this Australian couple in a
"home"? I'm confused...

TIA! :wave:

Welcome! Good to have you here.

Judge Cohen appointed the GAL. He has since stated during the course of proceedings that his court is not the one to make decisions about custody or guardianship.

Looking at these facts together, my conclusion is that Cohen wanted a GAL in order to protect Stella's financial rights, which are at issue in his court.

Note that Cohen does not preside in family court, but chancery court.

 

[SouthAussie]

What I don't get about this mess is ...

- Stella needs a permanent stay/permanent resident permit
- To get a permanent stay permit she needs a passport
- To get a passport she needs her birth to US parents to be (and perhaps was) registered in Indonesia

So there are several strong indicators of US citizenship. And the facilities to travel in place (passport).
So why are the US courts/Immigration/Foreign Diplomats/whoever unprepared to go to bat for their at-risk minor-child US citizen?

Stella is not an adult who has committed a grievous crime in a foreign country, so she is not subject to the laws of that country in that regard. She, to me, is entitled to protection and intervention by the US. She is entitled to deportation back to the US. Into the permanent care of an immediate family member. One that they can vet and keep an eye on.

Get off your bums, US authorities!! Do some internet research, at the very least, and help this child who cannot speak for herself. If I can find this info on the internet, the authorities can sure as heck find it, too!



Registering a Foreign Birth in Indonesia:
http://www.expat.or.id/info/registeringbirth.html

Permanent Stay Permit
http://www.expat.or.id/info/docs.html#KITAP

Permanent Stay Permit Requirement (additional source)
https://www.wikiprocedure.com/index.php/Indonesia_-_Apply_for_Permanent_Residence

 

[SouthAussie]

This case makes me feel so angry.

If Stella was living in the US in a drug-riddled, unsanitary, mosquito-ridden environment (a prison, no less!), the authorities would quickly remove her - upon reports of the situation - and place her into guardian care.

But no, not in Bali. Instead they appoint someone to dribble through money, to oversee Stella's care from thousands of miles away, they don't pay attention to what the child's father is telling them, they rely on care workers to supply Stella's other needs, they allow everyone else to make decisions about their little US citizen.

 

[Kamille]

But that would be the case if Heather were in a US prison right now. The only difference would be that Stella wouldn't have been in the prison for two years.Absent some legal finding against her with respect to making a placement of her child, Heather would get to "call the shots."

Respectfully snipped by me and just jumping off your post...

I would hope that if an inmate in a US prison gave birth to their only child while in that prison and the child's father was also there, both charged with murder or murder related offences to the child's maternal grandmother, that some child protective service would be called in by the prison officials to help with the child's placement. I don't think a person in a US prison can just decide to let someone they met after their arrest that they did not even know prior to committing the offence take their child without someone in an official capacity at the prison calling in a child protective service to check the situation out.

And Stella has had a US attorney since before she was born, and a GAL attorney appointed by an Illinois judge after she was born to represent her best interests. Who both seem to think, by their actions of lack thereof, that it was fine for Stella to spend two years in an Indonesian prison and then be placed with this anonymous Australian couple, who would also likely be living in Indonesia on some type of Visa and could be deported at any time, rather than be returned to the country in which she holds citizenship to be placed in foster care or to give any of her birth family an opportunity to become her guardian. They did not consider this at any time in the past two years or for the next 8 apparently. How can either of them think they did what was right for the child they were entrusted to look out for?

What is the motivation of this Australian couple? They appear to be committing to raise a child for 8 years, bringing her to their local prison at least twice weekly to visit with her mother and likely bringing supplies to that mother at the same time. And then to either have to give up the child or take in the child's mother as well when she is released from prison in 8 years. What's in it for them? And who other than the murderer of the child's grandmother decided they were appropriate guardians?

And that's just the situation by taking Kia Walker out of the equation. Kia did ask for HM to let her bring Stella back to Chicago right after her birth. But Kia did not have the knowledge or funds to try to make that happen so she returned to the US alone. Why didn't VF work with KW then to help her legally get Stella back to the US? Instead she set up a crowd sourcing fund to raise money for HM to be able to keep Stella there. I would also imagine at that time, that TS was okay with Stella staying in the prison with HM so he could see her so I guess Kia just let it go. In hindsight I suppose she regrets that she didn't try harder 2 years ago.

MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

What is the motivation of this Australian couple? They appear to be committing to raise a child for 8 years, bringing her to their local prison at least twice weekly to visit with her mother and likely bringing supplies to that mother at the same time. And then to either have to give up the child or take in the child's mother as well when she is released from prison in 8 years. What's in it for them? And who other than the murderer of the child's grandmother decided they were appropriate guardians?

MOO

RSBM

I would like to know what the motivation of the Aussie couple is, too.
Plenty of other children they can take care of in Indonesia, if that is their desire. As we already know, their orphaned child facilities are pretty sparse and disgusting and not filled with love.

Wouldn't it be nice if they were arranging to take care of Stella, so they could get temp custody of her, then allow the US authorities take Stella back to the US? They would be very aware that the opportunities for Stella are far greater in most other countries.

May be a pipe dream, but an ideal way to legally pry Stella away from Heather, and then allow her a real life away from prisons and the normalising of that environment.

 

[FigTree]

SBM

The report you cite is about residential care facilities run by the state. I only had a quick look, but couldn't find any reference to placements within families, which is Stella's proposed future arrangement.

I agree strongly with you about how terrible it has been that this poor child has lived two years in a prison.

Yes, the large enquiry is a State enquiry with smaller additional studies nested within it - and after reading over my post I realised I hadn't worded the post correctly to explain my point.
The Charity is a similar institution which will assist the carers (in some form). It takes and cares for children also.
The study which was done regarding children in residential care was related to Institutional care but also about the impact on children in residential care when they are placed/reside outside the Charity status institution - the study made findings related to children in both institutional and residential care (I put recommendations - wrong word). Australia has a very bad report card on child welfare and children in care with carers.
I was questioning why if there is a blood relative of good standing (any) ready to step in and care for Stella, that support is not there for that to be a consideration or for that to happen. But, HM is calling the shots, so (to me) like many of the opportunities to better the situation for the child are not going to happen.
The post was a voice of concern for the best possible outcome.

 

[FigTree]

What I don't get about this mess is ...

- Stella needs a permanent stay/permanent resident permit
- To get a permanent stay permit she needs a passport
- To get a passport she needs her birth to US parents to be (and perhaps was) registered in Indonesia

So there are several strong indicators of US citizenship. And the facilities to travel in place (passport).
So why are the US courts/Immigration/Foreign Diplomats/whoever unprepared to go to bat for their at-risk minor-child US citizen?

Stella is not an adult who has committed a grievous crime in a foreign country, so she is not subject to the laws of that country in that regard. She, to me, is entitled to protection and intervention by the US. She is entitled to deportation back to the US. Into the permanent care of an immediate family member. One that they can vet and keep an eye on.

Get off your bums, US authorities!! Do some internet research, at the very least, and help this child who cannot speak for herself. If I can find this info on the internet, the authorities can sure as heck find it, too!



Registering a Foreign Birth in Indonesia:
http://www.expat.or.id/info/registeringbirth.html

Permanent Stay Permit
http://www.expat.or.id/info/docs.html#KITAP

Permanent Stay Permit Requirement (additional source)
https://www.wikiprocedure.com/index.php/Indonesia_-_Apply_for_Permanent_Residence

Nice post SA - that would have taken me four posts to sort out the wording LOL.
I have queried this as well and wondered if Stella has been registered by HM & TS as a citizen in Indonesia - or otherwise she must hold some form of residency paperwork to stay there.
Stella can hold dual citizenship in Indonesia (but as far as I understand) she must make a decision on a single citizenship status at 18 years of age.

 

[SouthAussie]

Nice post SA - that would have taken me four posts to sort out the wording LOL.
I have queried this as well and wondered if Stella has been registered by HM & TS as a citizen in Indonesia - or otherwise she must hold some form of residency paperwork to stay there.
Stella can hold dual citizenship in Indonesia (but as far as I understand) she must make a decision on a single citizenship status at 18 years of age.

BBM
No, that is not correct. Stella is a US citizen alone, through and through. There is no Indonesian parentage at all, so she is not eligible to be an Indonesian citizen in any capacity, at this point in time. Being born in Indonesia has no bearing on her citizenship at all. Only if she was adopted by a person(s) of Indonesian citizenship would that maybe be possible.

The point of getting her birth registered in Indonesia is that her birth still needed to be registered. Then she would be recorded as a US citizen born in Indonesia. Once her birth certificate was produced - as a US citizen born in Indonesia - she could get a (US) passport. Then once she had a (US) passport, an Indonesian permanent stay visa could be issued.

.

 

[SouthAussie]

Stella fits none of the requirements to be an Indonesian citizen in any capacity, dual or complete.

An Indonesian citizen is:

- one who before the enactment of this law was already an Indonesian citizen
- a child from a legal marriage whose parents are Indonesian citizens
- a child from a legal marriage whose father is an Indonesian citizen and mother is a foreign citizen
- a child from a legal marriage whose mother is an Indonesian citizen and father is a foreign citizen
- a child from a legal marriage whose mother is an Indonesian citizen and father is stateless or whose nationality law does not give citizenship to offspring
- a child from a legal marriage born within 300 days after the father's death and the father was an Indonesian citizen at the time of death
- a child from an illegal marriage whose mother is an Indonesian citizen
- a child from an illegal marriage whose mother is a foreign citizen but the father is an Indonesian citizen and recognizes the child as his child before the child turns 18 or is married
- a child born in Indonesian territory whose parent's citizenship status is unknown
- a newly born child found in Indonesian territory as long as the father and mother are unknown
- a child born in Indonesian territory if the parents are stateless or cannot be found
- a child born outside of Indonesian territory whose parents are Indonesian citizens and, because of the law where the child was born, the child was granted another citizenship
- a child from whose father or mother was already granted Indonesian citizenship but died before taking an oath of allegiance

https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_nationality_law

 

[Kamille]

RSBM

I would like to know what the motivation of the Aussie couple is, too.
Plenty of other children they can take care of in Indonesia, if that is their desire. As we already know, their orphaned child facilities are pretty sparse and disgusting and not filled with love.

Wouldn't it be nice if they were arranging to take care of Stella, so they could get temp custody of her, then allow the US authorities take Stella back to the US? They would be very aware that the opportunities for Stella are far greater in most other countries.

May be a pipe dream, but an ideal way to legally pry Stella away from Heather, and then allow her a real life away from prisons and the normalising of that environment.

Well that would be nice to think that this couple are working with the GAL to help get Stella away from her murderous mother and the prison environment but somehow I don't see that.

If HM was able to manipulate a couple of guys into helping her murder her mother for a cut of an imaginary 11 million dollar inheritance, what has she been telling this Australian couple about their possible payout if they take in Stella, bring her to the prison to visit as much as possible and keep HM in the style to which she's become accustomed in there by bringing her supplies?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

What I don't get about this mess is ...

- Stella needs a permanent stay/permanent resident permit
- To get a permanent stay permit she needs a passport
- To get a passport she needs her birth to US parents to be (and perhaps was) registered in Indonesia

So there are several strong indicators of US citizenship. And the facilities to travel in place (passport).
So why are the US courts/Immigration/Foreign Diplomats/whoever unprepared to go to bat for their at-risk minor-child US citizen?

Stella is not an adult who has committed a grievous crime in a foreign country, so she is not subject to the laws of that country in that regard. She, to me, is entitled to protection and intervention by the US. She is entitled to deportation back to the US. Into the permanent care of an immediate family member. One that they can vet and keep an eye on.

Get off your bums, US authorities!! Do some internet research, at the very least, and help this child who cannot speak for herself. If I can find this info on the internet, the authorities can sure as heck find it, too!



Registering a Foreign Birth in Indonesia:
http://www.expat.or.id/info/registeringbirth.html

Permanent Stay Permit
http://www.expat.or.id/info/docs.html#KITAP

Permanent Stay Permit Requirement (additional source)
https://www.wikiprocedure.com/index.php/Indonesia_-_Apply_for_Permanent_Residence

And I wonder if there is anything on the record in Indonesia about a child born to imprisoned parents on expired tourist visas. This is probably unprecedented for them as well.

MOO

 

[FigTree]

My bold

BBM
No, that is not correct. Stella is a US citizen alone, through and through. There is no Indonesian parentage at all, so she is not eligible to be an Indonesian citizen in any capacity, at this point in time. Being born in Indonesia has no bearing on her citizenship at all. Only if she was adopted by a person(s) of Indonesian citizenship would that maybe be possible.

The point of getting her birth registered in Indonesia is that her birth still needed to be registered. Then she would be recorded as a US citizen born in Indonesia. Once her birth certificate was produced - as a US citizen born in Indonesia - she could get a (US) passport. Then once she had a (US) passport, an Indonesian permanent stay visa could be issued.

.

Sorry, you are correct my apologies -


But from what I was reading Stella also is not immediately classified officially as a US citizen either.

The registration of the child for official US citizenship also has to happen - she is not automatically a USA citizen if born overseas until the birth is registered - a form called:A Consular Report of Birth (CRBA).
A 'First Passport' can also be applied for at the same time when filling out the CRBA.
I suspect when Stella was born, one of the reasons that the US Consulate Official in Indonesia visited HM was to inform her of matters such as this - or to get Stella registered as a US citizen and get her passport and other documentation in order.

The registration of the birth and claim for US citizenship must be made before the child is 18 years of age.



US EMBASSY AND CONSULATES IN INDONESIA
https://id.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/birth/

As U.S. citizen parent(s), you should report your child’s birth abroad as soon as possible to the U.S. Consulate to establish an official record of the child’s claim to U.S. citizenship at birth. The official record will be the Consular Report of Birth Abroad, Form FS-240 which is a basic United States citizenship document.
Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA)
A Consular Report of Birth (CRBA) is evidence of United States citizenship, issued to a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents who meet the requirements for transmitting citizenship under the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).
CRBA applications must be made before the child’s 18th birthday, and we recommend that the parents apply for the CRBA as soon as possible after the child’s birth. For applicants older than age 18 who have never been issued a CRBA, please refer to Possible Derivative Claim to U.S. Citizenship. Anyone who has a claim to U.S. citizenship must be in posession of a valid U.S passport to enter and exit the United States, even if they have citizenship of another country, as well.
------------------------------------


U.S. Embassy Jakarta
Checklist for a Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA)
http://photos.state.gov/libraries/indonesia/1377655/201601/Checklist_for_a_CRBA_update_January_4_2016_.pdf

 

[FigTree]

And I wonder if there is anything on the record in Indonesia about a child born to imprisoned parents on expired tourist visas. This is probably unprecedented for them as well.

MOO

I think that's the crux of this all - that this hasn't happened before like this.
So many entanglements.

 

[SouthAussie]

Well that would be nice to think that this couple are working with the GAL to help get Stella away from her murderous mother and the prison environment but somehow I don't see that.

If HM was able to manipulate a couple of guys into helping her murder her mother for a cut of an imaginary 11 million dollar inheritance, what has she been telling this Australian couple about their possible payout if they take in Stella, bring her to the prison to visit as much as possible and keep HM in the style to which she's become accustomed in there by bringing her supplies?

MOO

No, I don't see it either. lol

But what craziness to think that Stella is not going to form a deep bond with whoever she lives with for the next 8 years, and is going to want to go live with her nutty mother again when she is 10 years old.

And didn't we read that once Heather is released from prison she will be deported back to the US? That all foreign criminals are deported back to their country of origin once their sentence is over?

So then Stella has to leave the people she has bonded with, and return to the US with Heather? A mother who may well go to prison again, in the US, if the FBI have anything to with it.

Talk about rip the little girl's heart out. Remove her from her caregivers, remove her from the country she has grown up in, her friends, her school - and put her back into the care of a nutcase ....

 

[FigTree]

Just a little :innocent::giggle: moment when reading the CRBA form...
Required information...

Evidence of the couple’s physical presence in the same location at the time of conception,
preferably original passports.
-----
Evidence of the couple’s relationship prior to the conception of the applicant.
-----

All documentation could probably be found on Youtube - Facebook - Instagram - Snapchat - and from the FBI

 

[Kamille]

No, I don't see it either. lol

But what craziness to think that Stella is not going to form a deep bond with whoever she lives with for the next 8 years, and is going to want to go live with her nutty mother again when she is 10 years old.

And didn't we read that once Heather is released from prison she will be deported back to the US? That all foreign criminals are deported back to their country of origin once their sentence is over?

So then Stella has to leave the people she has bonded with, and return to the US with Heather? A mother who may well go to prison again, in the US, if the FBI have anything to with it.

Talk about rip the little girl's heart out. Remove her from her caregivers, remove her from the country she has grown up in, her friends, her school - and put her back into the care of a nutcase ....

I know, it's just heartbreaking to think of the horrible possibilities in this little girl's future. As we said at the beginning, because of her parent's selfishness Stella never really stood a chance at a normal life with adoptive parents who would not use her as a pawn. And as it stands now, all scenarios point to a traumatic upbringing and a lot of uncertainty and upheaval. I guess the best case scenario at this point is that KW prevails in her petition and does the right thing by Stella and provides her with everything she needs for a stable and loving environment away from her selfish parents.

I also like the thought that HM would have to return to the US if she wants to see her daughter once her sentence is up. And face the FBI, who I hope is waiting for her at the airport. And that they are prepared to lay charges considering the smack she talks about them on her social media. Apparently she thinks that Chicago is her city and that they can't stop her from coming back. Has a couple of choice names for them as well.

While I also believe that we read that it is customary for Indonesia to deport felons from their country once their sentences are up, something tells me that they will not do this with HM and may just offer her early parole if Stella stays in the country. Like they've done with Schapelle Corby. Which is another reason why it's imperative to get Stella out of there. She may end up living in Bali with the Australian couple and her murdering mother on parole in a few short years. While they all soak up the funds in the trust to "support Stella".

MOO

 

[Orange Tabby]

Concerning the naughty Mr. Bibbs and his pre-prison consumption habits:

Why in the world would they look at treatment options for marijuana? If you ask me, he's just partying before he goes to the pokey.

:hilarious:

 

[Orange Tabby]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-murder-investigation-met-20170310-story.html

Lots more info at that link as well as a recap of events so far.

Once again they make reference to a "deal" that the lawyers are trying to hammer out with HM with regards to the trust. So far unsuccessfully. Why do they need to hammer out a deal with her? :waitasec:

I've been thinking about this. Like you, I find it strange.

I discussed in a previous post -- #1786 in this thread -- what could possibly be tangling up a Slayer hearing in Judge Cohen's court.

Heather's lawyers may be opposing a Slayer Statute hearing arguing that such a proceeding prejudices Heather because she cannot testify on her own behalf without fear of self-incrimination. She has a Constitutional right not to incriminate herself, and this is an important consideration because the FBI continues to investigate her and she could be subject to federal prosecution after her prison term at Kerobokan has been completed. She has already announced she will invoke her Fifth Amendment right in a Slayer proceeding in Chicago, should she be called to testify via Skype.

Presumably her lawyers also argue that Heather has a right to not have to forfeit her interests in Sheila's trust without full participation in a Slayer hearing.

If these two things are true, that she could face federal charges and that she has a right to participate fully in a Slayer hearing, progress is stymied on the Slayer front.**

This could be a why a deal is being proposed.

But what deal could make any sense? If I were on the William Wiese side, I'd put this deal to the mother-murderer:

Heather, you know that sooner or later you will lose in a Slayer hearing. The Bibbs conviction alone should convince you that your position in an American court is exceedingly dangerous. When that happens we have the right to sue for recovery of all the money you have already received from the trust and we'll win that argument in court too.

So we propose this: agree that Sheila's trust, in its entirety, belongs to Stella. Do this, and we'll agree not to pursue recovery of the funds you've already received.​

This means Heather doesn't exit prison with a huge debt and that Wiese immediately controls all subsequent payouts to Stella.

Offering to forgive Heather's debt is the carrot for the murderer (and since she's never likely to earn a penny during her lifetime, or at least until she's out of federal prison, it's hardly a large concession by Weise -- Heather looks to be judgment-proof for years and years to come) and Weise can then begin the task of dealing with the trust on Stella's behalf and making prudent plans.

Heather, being obstreperous and money-grubbing, doesn't want to let go of even the infinitesimal chance of getting her blood-soaked hands on more money, so she refuses the deal.

There are various possible variations on the deal I've suggested here. One being that Weise additionally wants Heather to sign a legally binding agreement that she will not oppose any decision by Weise that there will be no payouts made to Stella until she is an adult. Or he wants Heather to sign an agreement that expressly sets out that she has no right, even as Stella's mother, to legally challenge any decision Weise makes as trustee.

That's one of my speculations on what all this deal talk is about. It could be completely wrong.


**These two things may not be true.