"BC is innocent" or "I'm not convinced yet" Discussion

[ncnative]

Ain't that the truth, Mom. RKAB knows. She KNOWS!!

 

[ncnative]

I don't discount what she says. She has no cause to lie. However, Brad and Nancy were married at 25 or 26 years of age, which is young IMO, so if her relationship was way before they were ever married, you are talking about an immature relationship. I had a boyfriend like that. He was a great guy, he was just young an immature. Lots of things change when you have been married to the same person for 8 years and you have had children....I dare say most of us acted like brats in our youthful relationships.

As I said, RKAB knows! She knows Brad's innate nature.

RWESAFE, in your quote above, you are calling RKAB and Brad Cooper's past relationship an "immature relationship". Like Momto3 said, "...does a tiger change its stripes?". Brad's innate nature, like a tiger's stripes was there then and there now. RKAB knew it and saw it. She knew his family. She saw how the family dynamics went about.

Why, even I remember my late teen, early adult "boyfriend" relationships. I was never bratty and immature in my early relationships with men. (If he were bratty and immature, I didn't want anything to do with him in the first place). I know that's probably rare, but no, that's just not working for me to assume that.

 

[rwesafe]

I love the saying...
“A tiger doesn’t change its stripes”

Do we really thing BC is any different than he was back when RKAB knew him?

I do think that there is a difference. I don't think that NC would have married him if he had not grown out of some of that immature behavior. I also don't believe that if he was that horrible she would have had not 1, but 2 children with him. It's not as if they were only together for 2 years. They were together nearly 3.5 years before they had their first child. NC, by the admission of her own family member was a strong personality. A personality that I believe would have left him and gone back to Canada prior to having children if he was the hideous monster he has been depicted as.

 

[jmflu]

What if the statement by MH is true about JA freaking out when Brett's name flashed on NC's cell phone and JA became hysterical?

We don't know if this happened, or why. Sometimes spouses contact the person their spouse is talking to, to try to get them on THEIR side, or to try to get insight into what their spouse is doing.

It is entirely possible that NC and BA had something going on and JA is the one who snapped....a highly unpopular scenario, but still a distinct possibility....perhaps LE found evidence of email interaction btw NC and BA and that is why they demanded that NC's friends come forward with what they know? It would indeed indicate a new possible motive for murder....

I don't think this could have happened, because murderers don't turn around and report their victim missing so that people go looking right away. They would want as much time as possible before the discovery so that decomp could set in and keep LE from sniffing out the perp. JMO.

 

[rwesafe]

As I said, RKAB knows! She knows Brad's innate nature.

RWESAFE, in your quote above, you are calling RKAB and Brad Cooper's past relationship an "immature relationship". Like Momto3 said, "...does a tiger change its stripes?". Brad's innate nature, like a tiger's stripes was there then and there now. RKAB knew it and saw it. She knew his family. She saw how the family dynamics went about.

Why, even I remember my late teen, early adult "boyfriend" relationships. I was never bratty and immature in my early relationships with men. (If he were bratty and immature, I didn't want anything to do with him in the first place). I know that's probably rare, but no, that's just not working for me to assume that.

So what does that say about NC? She married him, she pulled up roots and moved away from her family to be with him here, she gave birth to two of his children.....I don't buy it. NC was no pushover and good, bad or indifferent, she married him because she loved him at one point....he must of had some good traits....she had ample opportunity to get out of the marriage before children were involved...she didn't....

 

[rwesafe]

We don't know if this happened, or why. Sometimes spouses contact the person their spouse is talking to, to try to get them on THEIR side, or to try to get insight into what their spouse is doing.




I don't think this could have happened, because murderers don't turn around and report their victim missing so that people go looking right away. They would want as much time as possible before the discovery so that decomp could set in and keep LE from sniffing out the perp. JMO.

I would assume you would have to know all murderers to make such a generalization. In fact, the man that conspired to to have his wife murdered in Fayetville reported it within minutes of the stabbing....

 

[jmflu]

So what does that say about NC? She married him, she pulled up roots and moved away from her family to be with him here, she gave birth to two of his children.....I don't buy it. NC was no pushover and good, bad or indifferent, she married him because she loved him at one point....he must of had some good traits....she had ample opportunity to get out of the marriage before children were involved...she didn't....

I'm sure everyone has some good traits. Also, I have seen a lot of women fall for the "bad boy" type.

 

[jmflu]

I would assume you would have to know all murderers to make such a generalization. In fact, the man that conspired to to have his wife murdered in Fayetville reported it within minutes of the stabbing....

Yes, but weren't they right there on the scene?

NC's murderer went to all the trouble of hiding her body waaaaay out there in an area he didn't think she'd be found very quickly in!

 

[jumpstreet]

NC's murderer went to all the trouble of hiding her body waaaaay out there in an area he didn't think she'd be found very quickly in!

Small correction jmflu: NC's murderer went to all the trouble of hiding her body waaaaay out there in an area he/she didn't think it would be found very quickly!

Since this is the "BC may be innocent" thread... that's the least we can do...

 

[jmflu]

Small correction jmflu: NC's murderer went to all the trouble of hiding her body waaaaay out there in an area he/she didn't think it would be found very quickly!

Since this is the "BC may be innocent" thread... that's the least we can do...

Ohhhhhk...

 

[rwesafe]

Yes, but weren't they right there on the scene?

NC's murderer went to all the trouble of hiding her body waaaaay out there in an area he didn't think she'd be found very quickly in!

No, the husband ran to the first house he saw and had them call for the police and ambulance.

 

[jmflu]

No, the husband ran to the first house he saw and had them call for the police and ambulance.

That's what I mean. He didn't go to great lengths to hide her. If one goes to great lengths to hide the person they just killed, perhaps they are less likely to go tell people to start looking for her!

 

[reddress58]

That's what I mean. He didn't go to great lengths to hide her. If one goes to great lengths to hide the person they just killed, perhaps they are less likely to go tell people to start looking for her!

I'm not so sure we can compare this case too much to Nancy's. It appears to be VERY pre-meditated, and it also appears as if an accomplice did the actual killing. The plan seemingly was for the husband to run get help immediately to make him appear innocent. Both men have been arrested.

 

[rwesafe]

I'm not so sure we can compare this case too much to Nancy's. It appears to be VERY pre-meditated, and it also appears as if an accomplice did the actual killing. The plan seemingly was for the husband to run get help immediately to make him appear innocent. Both men have been arrested.

Exactly my point.....he reported it immediatly to make himself appear innocent.

 

[SleuthyGal]

>he reported it immediatly to make himself appear innocent.

So his actions correlate to nothing but his own actions in his own situation with that particular murder.

 

[RKAB]

I don't believe that the relationship we had was an immature one.

Brad also has good things about him as well. He could be fun, he could be nice....again, it was part of the rollercoaster. Anyone who has suffered through any type of an abusive relationship whether it be emotional or physical or both, knows about the "honeymoon phase" where the time following bad times is extremely good. When it seemed like things were horrible and one thinks it's time to call it quits and leave, out comes the honeymoon and you second guess your intention to leave because "maybe things will change".

Nancy must have seen a lot of good in Brad to have stayed with him as long as she did and to make the choice to have not one but two children with him. Having children really complicates and clouds the choice and ability to leave a relationship as well. Without children, a person is able to end a relationship and worry only about the effect it will have on them as one person. Having children with someone, while living in a different country and not being able to work really complicates the ability to leave as well.

Having children is also a challenge in life, period. Children do not always make a relationship better and they can cause the cracks that are already visible in a relationship to get bigger. Maybe together as a couple they believed that having children would help them become closer or maybe Nancy realized that she wasn't going to be able to leave him and wanted to have children to fulfill her life and enrich her life.

I think moving so far from her family, whom it appears she was so close to, was isolating and lonely. She appears to have many friends who care deeply about her in Cary but nothing would replace her family. This could have caused problems between her and Brad as well.

Whatever the case may be, Nancy saw things in Brad that allowed her to choose him as a husband and father of her children. She may have looked past the bad and focused on the good. He does have good in him, everyone does. Maybe she believed that he would change after moving and that's why she went with him. Maybe she believed that he would change after they had children.

But it's correct, a tiger doesn't change it's stripes. And I don't believe he has.

 

[Anderson]

So what does that say about NC? She married him, she pulled up roots and moved away from her family to be with him here, she gave birth to two of his children.....I don't buy it. NC was no pushover and good, bad or indifferent, she married him because she loved him at one point....he must of had some good traits....she had ample opportunity to get out of the marriage before children were involved...she didn't....

Here are excerpts from a couple of my posts in August. Others have also discussed this:

NC did have a social life, but I respect her ability to form close friendships outside of her relationship with Brad. This was an essential thing for her to do, particularly because she couldn't work in the U.S. I wish her ability to form strong friendships had saved her, but this community of friends may now help bring justice. It seems that Brad was away much of the time and disengaged in some ways, at least according to some of the affidavits, so she really didn't have much choice. But I still think that Brad MAY have controlled Nancy in other ways. Control can come in a variety of forms (e.g., withholding money and passports, threatening suicide, emotional and physical abuse etc.).

The reason that the suicide threat is important is because this may be another sign that he is an abuser. This could be a control mechanism. I don't think that he actually would commit suicide, but if he did threaten to do so, then it MAY suggest abuse. He may not have kept her from her friends (she sounds like a very strong spirit), but he does seem to have controlled her in other ways. As raisincharlie would say, follow the money.

Here is a website that discusses the cycle of abuse, including a bit on abusers and their suicide threats:

"Threats — Abusers commonly use threats to keep their victims from leaving or to scare them into dropping charges. Your abuser may threaten to hurt or kill you, your children, other family members, or even pets. He may also threaten to commit suicide, file false charges against you, or report you to child services[/B]."
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_sig

I think it may be helpful to read some information on domestic abuse. BC was married to NC and she was about to leave him. This is when men are most likely to be violent. The fact that he was a abusive when he was younger suggests to me that this tendency would only get worse, particularly if he did not get help.

 

[rwesafe]

>he reported it immediatly to make himself appear innocent.

So his actions correlate to nothing but his own actions in his own situation with that particular murder.

True enough. But sometimes people murder, freak out at what they have done and report it to shift focus from themselves. It happens. It is just another possibility.

 

[rwesafe]

Here are excerpts from a couple of my posts in August. Others have also discussed this:

NC did have a social life, but I respect her ability to form close friendships outside of her relationship with Brad. This was an essential thing for her to do, particularly because she couldn't work in the U.S. I wish her ability to form strong friendships had saved her, but this community of friends may now help bring justice. It seems that Brad was away much of the time and disengaged in some ways, at least according to some of the affidavits, so she really didn't have much choice. But I still think that Brad MAY have controlled Nancy in other ways. Control can come in a variety of forms (e.g., withholding money and passports, threatening suicide, emotional and physical abuse etc.).

The reason that the suicide threat is important is because this may be another sign that he is an abuser. This could be a control mechanism. I don't think that he actually would commit suicide, but if he did threaten to do so, then it MAY suggest abuse. He may not have kept her from her friends (she sounds like a very strong spirit), but he does seem to have controlled her in other ways. As raisincharlie would say, follow the money.

Here is a website that discusses the cycle of abuse, including a bit on abusers and their suicide threats:

"Threats — Abusers commonly use threats to keep their victims from leaving or to scare them into dropping charges. Your abuser may threaten to hurt or kill you, your children, other family members, or even pets. He may also threaten to commit suicide, file false charges against you, or report you to child services[/B]."
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_sig

So you think that NC willingly married an abuser? If he indeed was always abusive since the time of his relationship with RKAB, and completely incapable of changing his ways....you are saying that she spent 8 years of her life and gave birth to two children knowing she was married to a man capable of horrendous emotional abuse? I just don't believe that.

 

[SleuthyGal]

RKAB, that was very eloquent and well-stated. Painting Brad with the same brush strokes as one would, say, a serial killer on a spree is neither accurate nor helpful.

Brad, like everyone, has many facets. And not all of them are, or have to be, evil. The reality is that BC and NC's relationship was in turmoil, likely had stress, was contentious, and was devolving to divorce. That is usually a volatile time in any relationship.