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[DeeDee249]

The bedwetting/undies soiling had been going on for quite a while. My impression is that PR was exasperated by this. But for it to trigger a rage attack on her daughter that night- there had to be more to it. What was it about THAT night's incident? Maybe a few drinks...maybe the stress of getting ready for the trips she didn't want to go on, dealing with the increasing disapproval of her friends (the Mega-JBR thing),she was turning 40, an age when women are thought to enter middle-age, no longer 'young women", and when it came right down to it, she never really liked Boulder all that much. To her, Atlanta was her home. In Atlanta, she was the beauty queen, her lavish, in-you-face lifestyle was admired there. In laid-back college-town Boulder, people disdained that kind of thing. There was a lot of negative criticism of her overdecorated, home after that house tour.
PR's world was becoming increasingly difficult for her. Her health and fears for her future were looming, as well.

 

[Albert18]

hmmm, i guess i'm not understanding the "crack head" comment.

i think JR was/is a stone cold human being....i read that one of his employess at AG said he could be ruthless with business partners & not think a thing about 'stabbing them in the back'.....

What I meant by that comment was that these were two very accomplished individuals. I think this should be an undisputed fact. But I see too many theories that don't take this into account.

The crime scene doesn't speak to me of John working for 5 plus hours. It just doesn't. For me that trumps the shirt fibers. I don't know what to make of the shirt fibers.

I agree with the second part where you write about John being ruthless. It takes an unbelievably nasty person to implicate your friends in something like this. Especially when you know they are innocent. I can't even fathom this behavior.

The crime scene doesn't reflect this ruthlessness. In my opinion the crime scene reads Patsy and the post crime scene reads John.

 

[DeeDee249]

I see both parents post-murder. But I still can't pin myself down to PR alone or JR alone as the killer.

 

[JMO8778]

What I meant by that comment was that these were two very accomplished individuals. I think this should be an undisputed fact. But I see too many theories that don't take this into account.

The crime scene doesn't speak to me of John working for 5 plus hours. It just doesn't. For me that trumps the shirt fibers. I don't know what to make of the shirt fibers.

I agree with the second part where you write about John being ruthless. It takes an unbelievably nasty person to implicate your friends in something like this. Especially when you know they are innocent. I can't even fathom this behavior.

The crime scene doesn't reflect this ruthlessness. In my opinion the crime scene reads Patsy and the post crime scene reads John.

JR's shirt fibers still could be post-crime scene if Patsy did the ligature strangling.perhaps he took over after that and wiped her down,redressed her,and did the wrist ligatures,as a means of getting rid of any extra rope,so there would be none left.I don't recall reading that any of Patsy's fibers were on the wrist ligatures...if she did such a sloppy job of it all on the rest,shouldn't some have been found there,too?

 

[JMO8778]

I agree, close enough. After all, what would be more devastating to a woman who was a former beauty queen with stage 4 ovarian cancer that destroyed what it was that made her a woman- a bed wetting accident or catching her husband and daughter in a sexual act?


-Tea

I think so,too.
why would JR be so anxious to get out of town,appear on CNN,and even consider leaving the country if he wasn't guilty of somthing..more than just helping Patsy cover up?

 

[BBB167893]

Whoever said that JR couldn't bear to face another family member leaving re: Patsy going to treatment alone, maybe that's key.

Follow me on this. If Patsy did kill JB, why would John stick by her? Speculation (Keep in mind, I'm just spitballing here): Remember, this man already was married once. His first marriage was a flop because he cheated on her and got caught. They always get caught. So, for him to throw Patsy to the dogs, he would have to admit to himself and the world that he f-ed up his first marriage only to marry a monster. A man in his position cannot afford to look that ridiculous. His business would suffer. His colleagues would question his intelligence and decision-making ability.

But don't get it into your head that I ascribe only petty motives to his choice. No, sirree. Let me go further and say this: he had a choice to turn her in. Okay. But to what end? It wouldn't bring JonBenet back. Chances were good Patsy would die in prison, and that would make John at least partly responsible. He's lost Beth. He just lost JB, and now it looked like he would lose Patsy too, and deprive his son of his mother. So, in his mind, he would be responsible for two deaths.

John claims to be a religious man. Regardless of what you think of that claim, let's say it's the truth. Perhaps he felt that watching over his wife was his penance.

Like I said, just spitballing.

Back on subject. I just bought a book that talks about this case. And, boy, it was worth every penny!

It is "And Justice For Some" by...

drumroll please...

Wendy Murphy! The skirt with a hurt! YAHOO!

 

[JMO8778]

I agree with everything you said,SD.
But the least he could have done,if he wanted to stick by Patsy,would be to keep his mouth shut and not turn on all of their friends.Someone said previously he handled it like a (ruthless) businessman,I agree.And the fact he was so willingly anxious to turn on all of them makes me suspect that he was guilty of more than just covering for Patsy..the least of which,IMO,was likely sexually abusing JB.
I'm sure he's reasoned it all out in his own head that's it's ok to stick by Patsy,even after her death.. a noble thing to do,in his opinion,for her and for his kids and grandkids.
I'm not sure how much religion means to him if he was willing to throw his own good friends under the bus,and point the finger at innocent ppl ...knowing they could get life in prison,or even the death penalty.

 

[BBB167893]

Just spitballing!

 

[icedtea4me]

But I still can't pin myself down to PR alone or JR alone as the killer.

I can't see either one of them acting alone, so I think they were in on it together.


-Tea

 

[DeeDee249]

I can't see either one of them acting alone, so I think they were in on it together.


-Tea

I think so too.
SD, I also agree with what you said, while adding that JR became an accesory to murder when he participated in the coverup. To throw all their friends, (and a few enemies, too) under the bus to protect his wife DOES seem in keeping with a cold, ruthless businessman.
I also feel that he couldn't bring himself to give up PR because of the cancer. Even if he WAS having an affair (he probably had no one special he would leave PR for, but had several affairs) he may have though it would be a matter of time till he was free again, with PR's cancer.

 

[JMO8778]

I'm sure,SD,I'm not critisizing anything you said,really,just my personal thoughts there.

 

[BBB167893]

I get ya.

 

[Solace]

I think JR has more to hide that meets the eye..he was all too anxious to be seen on CNN ...more than once.he was all too anxious to leave town,even to the point of thinking of leaving the country.and just why did he want his golf bag? even if he'd found the body at 11am,it seems nothing was altered.he had to have hidden something in it at the time of the staging.
add to that he doesn't tell LE to lay low,he doesn't go out and look for JB himself (even just to walk around the neighborhood),he doesn't ask the friends for help,and he doesn't even walk around the outside of the house.He would have been turning that house upside down and shaking it if he didn't have a clue as to where JB was.but 7 HOURS to find her body???? any parent would have found her within an hour,I believe,if she were truly missing,but still in the house.I also think he would have taken LE aside and voiced his suspicions that perhaps Patsy wrote the note.after all,what if she was hurt,yet nearby and not able to cry for help?and IF he'd have thought that to begin with...forget calling 911 ! I think JR would have taken care of that himself,starting with putting both hands around Patsy's throat and yelling 'Where's JonBenet?? I KNOW YOU WROTE THAT NOTE !!!'
and by Patsy's own admission,'she was screaming,and JR was screaming,when he came up from the basement'.
and how do you explain JR's fiber evidence? he wasn't wearing that shirt when LE arrived.and yes,actually Thomas does question JR's behavior in his book,he just didn't have proof of his early involvement at the time.but I do agree w. him,as far as still believing Patsy manually strangled JB and inflicted the head blow.

Here is a what happened to a friend of mine and his wife a few years ago. They had a five and a 3 year old. The wife tells the husband she can't find the baby, the 3year old (not quite). She is almost on the verge and he starts to help her. Five minutes go by, the wife at this point is hysterical on the lawn in her stocking feet crying and screaming out her child's name. David the husband is looking in the house - he said he frantically turned everything over and finally gets to the sofa and pulls up one of the sofa pillows and the baby sits up and says "I hiding".

My point is that you were exactly right on when you said they would be outside looking all over. From what I can tell Patsy screams for John and John says call the police immediately.

Now I know some might say that they found the note and believed she was kidnapped. But this man did not even tell the police he saw a suspicious "van" until six months later I believe. THERE IS NO WAY HE WOULD LEAVE THAT OUT IF EVERYTHING WERE ON THE UP AND UP. NOOOO WAY.

I can't stand John anymore. He is perfectly willing to let Burke wonder what happened and let him suffer to.

John is such a coward.

 

[coloradokares]

Here is a what happened to a friend of mine and his wife a few years ago. They had a five and a 3 year old. The wife tells the husband she can't find the baby, the 3year old (not quite). She is almost on the verge and he starts to help her. Five minutes go by, the wife at this point is hysterical on the lawn in her stocking feet crying and screaming out her child's name. David the husband is looking in the house - he said he frantically turned everything over and finally gets to the sofa and pulls up one of the sofa pillows and the baby sits up and says "I hiding".

My point is that you were exactly right on when you said they would be outside looking all over. From what I can tell Patsy screams for John and John says call the police immediately.

Now I know some might say that they found the note and believed she was kidnapped. But this man did not even tell the police he saw a suspicious "van" until six months later I believe. THERE IS NO WAY HE WOULD LEAVE THAT OUT IF EVERYTHING WERE ON THE UP AND UP. NOOOO WAY.

I can't stand John anymore. He is perfectly willing to let Burke wonder what happened and let him suffer to.

John is such a coward.

Eventually Burke is going to have to ask himself some very difficult questions about all this and I do pray that when that happens that the truth will be told and all the proper focus of getting Burke the help he needs will be there for him. This is life destroying stuff left as it is. I mean ask yourselves how can he go on when the doubts if and when they come would eat any normal being aliive. He was afterall just a kid. Someday you would thing he will need answers and proof. I would

 

[Solace]

Eventually Burke is going to have to ask himself some very difficult questions about all this and I do pray that when that happens that the truth will be told and all the proper focus of getting Burke the help he needs will be there for him. This is life destroying stuff left as it is. I mean ask yourselves how can he go on when the doubts if and when they come would eat any normal being aliive. He was afterall just a kid. Someday you would thing he will need answers and proof. I would

John knows this is true and he knows it much better than Burke does and he is just selfish enough to let him go through it. It is absolutely going to hit him. The subconscious knows very well that something happened that night and it will only stifle it for you for so long and then it starts to surface and if he does not deal with it, it will surface in many different ways - I truly believe this is going to happen to him. Either drugs or he will get sick or he will have failed relationships, work problems - something to keep him from being able to sustain a relationship - because he has this heavy dark memory on his back and has had it since he was, what? 10, I think. I hear he is a strange kid, but strange or no strange, he is a human and he is completely stifling what happened that night and it was horrific.

I feel for him because how are you going to admit to yourself that your mother defiled your sister in this manner, if that is the case.

Nice work John. He is only your son.

 

[coloradokares]

John knows this is true and he knows it much better than Burke does and he is just selfish enough to let him go through it. It is absolutely going to hit him. The subconscious knows very well that something happened that night and it will only stifle it for you for so long and then it starts to surface and if he does not deal with it, it will surface in many different ways - I truly believe this is going to happen to him. Either drugs or he will get sick or he will have failed relationships, work problems - something to keep him from being able to sustain a relationship - because he has this heavy dark memory on his back and has had it since he was, what? 10, I think. I hear he is a strange kid, but strange or no strange, he is a human and he is completely stifling what happened that night and it was horrific.

I feel for him because how are you going to admit to yourself that your mother defiled your sister in this manner, if that is the case.

Nice work John. He is only your son.

:clap:

 

[JMO8778]

John knows this is true and he knows it much better than Burke does and he is just selfish enough to let him go through it. It is absolutely going to hit him. The subconscious knows very well that something happened that night and it will only stifle it for you for so long and then it starts to surface and if he does not deal with it, it will surface in many different ways - I truly believe this is going to happen to him. Either drugs or he will get sick or he will have failed relationships, work problems - something to keep him from being able to sustain a relationship - because he has this heavy dark memory on his back and has had it since he was, what? 10, I think. I hear he is a strange kid, but strange or no strange, he is a human and he is completely stifling what happened that night and it was horrific.

I feel for him because how are you going to admit to yourself that your mother defiled your sister in this manner, if that is the case.

Nice work John. He is only your son.

Amen.
BR was obviously trying to sweep it all under the rug,his comment that he wanted to get on with his life,and the pic he drew of his family with JB already not included so soon afterwards reveals the truth.I think it's denial,(the minds way of dealing,or not dealing with it,rather).
But I do think as well,that he will have to deal with it someday,perhaps in the form of delayed grief,and likely more,much more...he should have been devastated by the loss of his sister,and frightened at that.That would have been a normal reaction,and it would have been the start of healing for him,but as such,he had none of that.So where will his subconcious pick it up,once he is ready to deal with it?

 

[DeeDee249]

You know how it seems to me? I think in this case, like in many other cases, if you tell youself it happened a certain way, even if you know it didn't, eventually you begin to beileve it. You just convince yourself of your own version of the events. It's like OJ Simpson's kids. They were HOME that night he murdered their mother. They must have some opinion on his guilt, especially as he wrote that book describing how he "may have" murdered their mother. But you won't hear from them either. They have probably convinced themselves that their father is innocent. As he is the only parent they have left (like BR) they simply erase it from their minds.
BR is the same. BR certainly knows more than he's said. But at this point, he has "moved on with his life" (just as he said he was doing DAYS AFTER THE MURDER OF HIS SISTER). I honesly believe he doesn't think about it as much as people imagine. His mother is dead, if his parents killed his sister they have obviously gotten away with it. With one of the likely suspects gone forever, no charges will ever be brought in this case, JR is free and clear, and both BR and JR are simply waiting for it all to fade away. And except for people like us, who try to keep it alive until justice is served, it HAS faded away. Become one of those "unsolved mysteries". JBR's birthday came and went without much media acknowledgement , as did the 10th anniversary of the murder. Maybe it was different in other states, but here in Sopranoland, not a word.
What was media coverage in Colorado? And Atlanta? (anyone here from Atlanta?)