Bible Back In Schools

[Mabel]

Even if the classes are electives, everyone's tax dollars pay for them. I don't want my money spent to teach the bible. Is there a class for the study of the Torah? The Quran? An elective class teaching Paganism? That's a misundersood religion if there ever was one.

If I want my daughter to learn ballet, I send her to ballet school and I pay for it. I don't expect anyone else to pay, certainly it's not the responsibilty of my community. I see no reason why it should be any different with the bible.

 

[Ella]

I have heard/read that the Koran is taught in public schools in California. Are you thinking of relocating?

 

[Jean]

were you ever sexually molested as a child? The reason I ask, is that I have never met a homosexual who was not sexually abused as a child. Never. My heart breaks for the homosexual.

Ella, I know you were directing your post to someone else, but I really feel the need to say something. My brother is gay and I know for certain that he was never ever molested as a child...no way! FWIW, my brother is a very happy, productive professional man with a wonderful partner he has been with for almost 20 years. I love them both dearly, and I admire both of them, and all of the accomplishments they have made individually, and also as a couple. It is difficult for me to understand how your heart could break for this "homosexual" couple.

 

[mindi77]

I have to say that I agree that religion should be kept out of school unless it is an elective basis. For the kids who want to learn about it then they could go and the ones who don't shouldn't have to. But then if you do put it in as an elective then you only have to be fair to all the religions.
You can't just put christianity in the schools and call that fair, you would need to put catholic, muslim, buddist and any other that was needed.


As for when people say " I will pray for you", I can't stand it, because it always seems so condescending. I don't need you to pray for me, I'f I need prayer then I will do it for myself. I agree with some posters who have said that people that are bible thumpers think there way is the only way.

I have a huge gripe with this....here is a little story
I had a really close family, we always got together for holidays and just for no reason and then alot of them started going to this particular church. Which is fine because I think it is great if that is what they want. After they started going I could never be around any of them without hearing "so when are you coming to church?" "Are you coming to church?" I would say no thanks but it would be non stop and to the point that when my hubby and kids and I were around any of them they wouldn't say two words to us unless it was about church.

So finally one day my aunt just kept bugging me and I said ok I will go this sunday and the first word out of her mouth was " Oh great now you will get to go to heaven" I was stunned. So I went to there cult...um I mean church and that was the last time and now we are not really in the family because of this. We are good, moral people but they think they are better and I think that is wrong.

I think if church is for you then great and if it isn't that is great also. I don't beg people to not go so don't bug me to go.

sorry if my post is to long.......I get carried away...lol :crazy:

 

[JBean]

Even if the classes are electives, everyone's tax dollars pay for them. I don't want my money spent to teach the bible. Is there a class for the study of the Torah? The Quran? An elective class teaching Paganism? That's a misundersood religion if there ever was one.

If I want my daughter to learn ballet, I send her to ballet school and I pay for it. I don't expect anyone else to pay, certainly it's not the responsibilty of my community. I see no reason why it should be any different with the bible.

There is a wide class offering of electives. They teach dance at our school too. My boys were not interested in it, or automotives or French! But I'm not bothered that there may be other people interested and that it is available to them. When I went to HS I took a comparativ religion class and it was most enlightening.
A good school to me has a wide variety of offerings for a wide variety of kids.
Because that's who goes there.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Even if the classes are electives, everyone's tax dollars pay for them. I don't want my money spent to teach the bible. Is there a class for the study of the Torah? The Quran? An elective class teaching Paganism? That's a misundersood religion if there ever was one.

If I want my daughter to learn ballet, I send her to ballet school and I pay for it. I don't expect anyone else to pay, certainly it's not the responsibilty of my community. I see no reason why it should be any different with the bible.

There are a lot of electives in high school, my dear ... cooking, shop, sewing, parenting, study hall, drama, choir, student newpaper / journalism ... etc.

I studied the Torah, Quran, Buddhism, Judaism and all these religions I can't even spell correctly in college on grants and scholarships as part of my undergrad program... they were required, and it wasn't even my major.
Federally and State funded grants and scholarships.
And yes, our tax dollars pay for every bit of it.

 

[michelle]

Michelle, I am sorry if this is getting personal. I never intended it to be. Do you really think homosexuality is healthy? If so, why is the average life span of a gay man thirty years less than a heterosexual man? Why do I keep hearing stories from my friends in the medical community about the damage anal sex does to a person? Are they all just pulling my leg?
Girls don't get pregnant from abstinence. So you lost me on that one.
"Oh yes, you have already defined people by whom they have sex with, by saying that gay people lead a unhealty lifestyle. Please don't say in the same sentence that you are not anti-homsexual, but that gay people have a unhealty lifestyle."
I am really sorry if I hit a raw emotion. Am I anti heterosexual if I believe promiscuity is unhealthy? That really doesn't make sense to me, but label me as you wish. I have had friends die from AIDS. Maybe it was a coincedence. The homosexuality and AIDS. Go figure, I better go back to the public school and relearn the truth.

I never said any of these things......

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I think if church is for you then great and if it isn't that is great also. I don't beg people to not go so don't bug me to go.

sorry if my post is to long.......I get carried away...lol :crazy:

I agree with you, I don't think church is for everyone ... but some families who don't go never expose their children to it and how are their children supposed to know at a young age if they ever wanted to go or not?
They have a preconceived notion based on what their parents thought.

And I'm addressing this to everyone, not just you, mindi
I know, I know. They are YOUR kids, so YOU know what is best for YOUR kids, right? BUT let me ask you. How many of you here wish that your parents would have done something different for you growing up or let you have been exposed to some different viewpoint other than their own --- not necessarily religion??? Be honest.

It's really hard to be in one corner of the ring or the other on this topic because I can see why some people would want to shelter their kids and blind them from something they don't want their children to hear or believe simply because they don't believe it and don't have an open mind to it.
And they don't want their kids to be brain washed either.

But on the other hand, kids are going to find out one way or another on their own, especially with the Internet.
And they will eventually, if they are inquisitive enough, choose to seek their own truths and answers.
If their parents put the fear of their backhand into them, then they may choose to never seek out anything other than what their parents choose to tell them is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and that is sad. Because we should always thirst for more, whether it is the truth or not. We should never stop trying to learn more ... whether it's what we belive or not. So we're educated enough to fight our own battles and know when we choose to engage in debate why we're arguing and why we believe whta we believe and not what the other believes.

Whew, I'm tired now. :doh:

 

[michelle]

I have been musing on the word, "old-fashioned" and what it evokes in my mind in relation to this issue.

In my grandparents generation, they read and studied the Bible, prayed at home quietly. This was not because they were oppressed. They had to work very hard and did not have much leisure time. It was of value to demonstrate the principles of their faith by how they treated their neighbors.

My grandparents and great- grandparents were not great churchgoers, even though they were identified as Irish Catholic, baptised, confirmed, received the sacraments etc. The churchgoers in my family were the next generation, my father's generation.

I attended a parochial elementary school. There are a few things this Catholic school did that would help public schools but reading the Bible is not among them per se.
Wearing uniforms is very helpful. Cuts down on the class distinctions among kids. There are studies that show this is helpful.

Also, to take teenagers and separate them by gender for at least half the day would also help alot of the problems. This gives boys and girls a chance to relax from the "hormone pressures".

I agree that the schools are not adequately addressing the wide range of complex social problems that are rampant in the schools. I am just not convinced that offering the study of the Bible in the schools is necessarily the way to go to bring ethics, cooperation, equal regard and respect for all individuals back into the community.

I have been looking into private school for my son not just because i want him to learn the bible and to be a "bible thumper" which i still have no idea what the real definition on that is, anyway, some of the things in your post is why i am looking into them..I have heard as well about the uniforms and the splitting up the classes helps them focus better....

 

[dakini]

Regarding what the Supreme Court says may be taught as part of a secular education:

Ok to teach the role of religion in the United States and other countries, the religious vision of the pilgrms, that Catholics have been subject to persecution, that many who participated in abolitionist, women's suffrage and civil right's movements had religious motivations.

Not ok to teach specific beliefs of the Bible as truth or religion from a sectarian point of view.

Not ok to teach the belief that the bible is inflallible, or inerrant or inspired.

Not ok to teach that biblical events really happened, there is no consensus the events happened (some believe they are symbolic) unless verified by archeological evidence (ie. Babylonian captivity of jews)

To teach as literal truth that God created the world would not be permitted. To teach Genesis as one of hundreds of creation stories from religions all over the world would be ok.

To teach that the first 5 books of the Bible were written by Moses is unconstitutional, there is no consensus. To teach there are 2 main views of authorship is ok.

To teach the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus actually happened is unconstitutional, no consensus. Faith groups differ widely on this.

To teach that heaven and hell exist as locations where one is rewarded or punished is unconstitutional. To teach about reincarnation or the after life is prohibited as to teach one set as truth violates the first amendment separation of church and state.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/ps_bibl1.htm

 

[Marthatex]

Kids learn more by the age of 10 about sex from television and movies then they will ever learn in school. Parents gripe about school then use TV as their babysitter.

Yes, ironic isn't it? My daughter paid alot more attention to Beverly Hills 90201, than to anything I ever told her to do.

 

[Ella]

Where did you get that I do not believe homosexuals are valued members of society? What I have said is that anal sex is unhealthy. And there is plenty of medical research to back that up.

Should all the liberals and people who feel that equal trreatment of other religions holy books should move somewhere that is offered?

I am sorry if you missed my sarcasm. There is no equal treatment of religion in California. The Bible is not taught in schools but the Koran is.
You do get to the root of the controversy over the Bible being taught in schools. Those who want to deny the facts on the dangers of anal sex are angry that the Bible puts restrictions on ALL sexual relations.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am an atheist that took my son out of public school after two months and opted for a Christian school.

BTW I am all for homosexual marriages too!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Now that is a broad perspective!

No kidding!!! LOL I hope the kids didn't get too confused! :waitasec: Can you imagine? Go to this Christian school, but don't listen to anything they tell you about God. LOL What a hoot.

Linda, can we ask what prompted this decision?

 

[Linda7NJ]

No kidding!!! LOL I hope the kids didn't get too confused! :waitasec: Can you imagine? Go to this Christian school, but don't listen to anything they tell you about God. LOL What a hoot.

Linda, can we ask what prompted this decision?

My son has no idea I am an atheist. LOL I even help him learn his Bible verses! Oh and I just LOVE the Christmas concert every year, they get to sing real CHRISTMAS songs!

OK, well small class size, parents that are involved and care, family atmosphere, nurturing and values. I also love the curriculum. Instead of jamming 12 different class subjects into one day my son is spending the majority of time focusing on the basics with reading, grammar, and mathematics. He's in second grade and can write a pretty darn good essay! They're pretty big on science too. The small class size allows for individual interests to be explored in depth. They also teach Latin starting in the 3rd grade.

I figure parenting today I could use all the help & support I can get!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

My son has no idea I am an atheist. LOL I even help him learn his Bible verses! Oh and I just LOVE the Christmas concert every year, they get to sing real CHRISTMAS songs!

OK, well small class size, parents that are involved and care, family atmosphere, nurturing and values. I also love the curriculum. Instead of jamming 12 different class subjects into one day my son is spending the majority of time focusing on the basics with reading, grammar, and mathematics. He's in second grade and can write a pretty darn good essay! They're pretty big on science too. The small class size allows for individual interests to be explored in depth. They also teach Latin starting in the 3rd grade.

I figure parenting today I could use all the help & support I can get!

I completely agree with you! Excellent eductions to be had in Christian schools. However, I'm still VERY puzzled Linda. I would think that at our sole core, you wouldn't want to initiate that sort of tug of war with your children about one of the most important aspect of one's life. I mean a belief, or non-belief, in God sets the tone for some people's lives. How can you rationalize in your mind the fact that one day they're going to know that you don't believe in something they've had put in their faces every day? Do you want them to be Christians? (Please, if I'm getting too personal - just tell me to mind my own bees wax, ok?)

 

[Linda7NJ]

I completely agree with you! Excellent eductions to be had in Christian schools. However, I'm still VERY puzzled Linda. I would think that at our sole core, you wouldn't want to initiate that sort of tug of war with your children about one of the most important aspect of one's life. I mean a belief, or non-belief, in God sets the tone for some people's lives. How can you rationalize in your mind the fact that one day they're going to know that you don't believe in something they've had put in their faces every day? Do you want them to be Christians? (Please, if I'm getting too personal - just tell me to mind my own bees wax, ok?)

Not too personal at all!

I want my child to find his own path, and I will encourge him to think for himself. If he ever asks me point blank, I will tell him what I believe. But I don't see that happening any time soon, maybe never. Just last week he expressed interest in attending church, inside I cringed. BUT, If he says something again, I will take him.

 

[IrishMist]

What I have said is that anal sex is unhealthy. And there is plenty of medical research to back that up.

The latest studies on abstinence is that it is working.

Ella, I was hoping you could provide some links to back up these statements. According to everything I've read, neither statement is true.
Thanks in advance.

In my life experience, what I know, is that homosexuals and strippers/prostitutes seem to have an above average incident of being molested as children. Maybe it is just a coincedence. It is just something that I have observed.

And here I'm curious. How many homosexuals, strippers and prostitutes do you know? You obviously know them well enough to know whether or not they were abused as children, and was wondering how many people you are talking about?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh, and I am a better "Christian" in the way I live my life than most of the real Christians I know! LOL

 

[IrishMist]

Not too personal at all!

I want my child to find his own path, and I will encourge him to think for himself.

That's how I was with both of my girls. I've got one that is like me, believes in God, but not the bible.

And the other one is studying to be a minister!!
(Which is fine, except in her church, women aren't allowed to be ministers- only the wives of ministers! )