Big Boy Toys

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I was just thinking - if the VX wasn't at the house that night, would LE even have known that it existed until later? Could it have been at Raven's disposal for days even before LE even learned of it?

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

I was just thinking - if the VX wasn't at the house that night, would LE even have known that it existed until later? Could it have been at Raven's disposal for days even before LE even learned of it?

That's a really good question. One would hope that LE asked Raven that night about other vehicles, but who knows. And if they didn't, then that certainly leaves the VX AND the Acura possibly out of the picture for how long? Hours, days?

But again, let's hope that LE knew THAT NIGHT that the Abaroa's owned other vehicles, and, asked Raven about the whereabouts of those vehicles, that night!

ETA: Now that I think about it, the reward press release mentioned that Janet had come home from work, and that they had taken her car in for repairs. So one can safely assume I suppose that Raven told LE that story, if not that night, then surely within a short timeframe after the murder. The VX however, who knows when it first came into conversation.......

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

But again, let's hope that LE knew THAT NIGHT that the Abaroa's owned other vehicles, and, asked Raven about the whereabouts of those vehicles, that night!

The problem I have with this is why wouldn't LE have searched those vehicles as well? Would a judge not grant warrants on those vehicles (at least on the VX if it wasn't in a shop that night)?

 

[libraryg]

So I notice that Raven only claims the Durango as a vehicle on his bankruptcy papers, with a net worth under $4000.
Did his family buy Janet's Acura?
And where oh where did his pride and joy the VX go? Sold? "Given" to a family member? Inquiring minds gotta know......

 

[terminatrixator]

So I notice that Raven only claims the Durango as a vehicle on his bankruptcy papers, with a net worth under $4000.
Did his family buy Janet's Acura?
And where oh where did his pride and joy the VX go? Sold? "Given" to a family member? Inquiring minds gotta know......

Not sure about the VX....but he didn't list any "sales" as assets in 2006, but he does have one pending sale of 100 bucks on the bankruptcy. I believe the Acura was sold by Raven to Jim Bolton and it was driven back to Utah after the Memorial service, I could be wrong, but that's what I thought. I have to go back over everything to check for accuracy, and I'll let you know after I look around a bit.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Not sure about the VX....but he didn't list any "sales" as assets in 2006, but he does have one pending sale of 100 bucks on the bankruptcy.

If Raven is the kind of guy that doesn't pay his taxes, embezzles from his employer, doesn't claim that as income even AFTER reading here that he could be charged for that alone, buys religious products and then doesn't pay for them, hasn't even paid off his restitution, etc., I find myself wondering why he would list this pending sale of $100. It just doesn't fit with what we've come to know of Raven. He'd play up his debts and hide any money coming in. So why would he list that $100 sale? If you or I were to sell something for $100, would we list it as pending income on our bankruptcy forms??? Doubtful - an amount that small, we'd probably not even think to list it and if we did, we'd think - who'd even know about that 100 bucks? So why would he list it? Is it something that's traceable (like the transfer of an automobile title), so he realizes that he has to list it but doesn't want to pay taxes on it?

ETA: To whomever mentioned Karyn's name in connection to this bankruptcy of Raven's - I agree. It really seems very suspicious that she just recently sold her house and now Raven goes bankrupt. Fishy, IMO.

And do we know yet if he will have to still pay for student loans and legal judgements?

 

[caffeinatd]

And do we know yet if he will have to still pay for student loans and legal judgements?

here is a link to what is dischargeable under chapt 7, also some other good info
http://www.ndb.uscourts.gov/forms/DischargeInfo.htm#4

"...The most common types of non- dischargeable debts are certain types of tax claims, debts not included by the debtor on the lists and schedules the debtor must file with the court, debts for spousal or child support or alimony, debts for willful and malicious injuries to person or property, debts to governmental units for fines and penalties, debts for most government funded or guaranteed educational loans or benefit overpayments, ........"


So, does this mean his debt to ES will not be discharged? seems like the embezzelment was willful and malicious to ES, not sure about the ed. loans, were they gov. supported?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

01/23/2005, 05:19 AM

NC VX sorry to hear that. Your VX is awesome, I was fortunate to see it at one of the MD meets.

......
NC_VX
01/25/2005, 05:37 PM

I appreciate the props . That was my one and only event so far and I loved it... I won't be off the VX train for long if I do sell. Right now I continue to job hunt hard and hope to make it through this!

I'm looking for the story of Raven's original purchase of the VX. While I haven't found it yet, reading this thread reminds me all over again just how desperate Raven was to keep the VX. It seems like it really pained him to have to think about the possibility of not just losing the VX but losing all of the attention he felt he was getting at that site.

 

[terminatrixator]

I'm looking for the story of Raven's original purchase of the VX. While I haven't found it yet, reading this thread reminds me all over again just how desperate Raven was to keep the VX. It seems like it really pained him to have to think about the possibility of not just losing the VX but losing all of the attention he felt he was getting at that site.

Looking through the stuff he posted on those sites, the VX was more important than anything, including his wife and child.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Looking through the stuff he posted on those sites, the VX was more important than anything, including his wife and child.

Maybe because it's easier to pretend that you're something special over the Internet than to have to prove it to those that have to put up with you on a daily basis in real life?

 

[ewwwinteresting]

Maybe because it's easier to pretend that you're something special over the Internet than to have to prove it to those that have to put up with you on a daily basis in real life?

Fortunately for raven, the one he had to prove himself to daily is no longer here. In minutes, he became the loser embezzler that can't keep a job that needs help to poor widower single dad that needs help. I'm guessing he prefers the later.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I'm looking for the story of Raven's original purchase of the VX. While I haven't found it yet, reading this thread reminds me all over again just how desperate Raven was to keep the VX. It seems like it really pained him to have to think about the possibility of not just losing the VX but losing all of the attention he felt he was getting at that site.

Is this the story you are looking for JG?

​

"I was introduced to the Vehicross in 1997 during a trip to a car show in Salt Lake City, UT. I them made my way up to an Isuzu dealer in Draper to sit in the Vehicross. A new sales rep was telling me all about the Vehicross and as I listened I imaged one day having enough money to afford this $32,000 vehicle. Shortly after this time I started my journey in the business world, college, marriage, work, and of course, the East Coast. A few months into my marriage I was driving to and from Fredericksburg Academy in Virginia when I thought I saw a Vehicross in their showroom. Out of curiosity I stopped in one day and to my surprise there was a 1999 Ironman Edition sitting on the showroom. I inquired about the VX and the sales manager was ecstatic to hear about my interest in this vehicle. In fact, I could say they were eager to get this car off the lot. They made an offer I could not refuse and so began my journey with the Vehicross."

ravenstree.com (my vx portion)

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

This is the story, EW, but not the exact wording that I recall. But we all know that Raven told his stories so many times to anyone that would listen, (and probably some that were only pretending to listen), so who knows where I saw the post I'm thinking of. Thanks for looking for it for me, EW.

 

[terminatrixator]

Wow, $32,000.00 Vehicle. However he had a 2001 definicient balance on his home for $34,850.00 throught Ditech.

Perhaps he got a home equity loan through Ditech, higher and above and beyond the vehicle, so he paid for it outright for the VX under the guise of a "home equity loan" and then put some money into the home or whatever and that's how he got away with not having anything out there on the vx??? He went and paid off the VX outright and then he ended up foreclosing on the original "Chase Manhattan Mortgage.

My theories:

He had a "Chase Manhattan Mortgage" which could be the actual mortgage and it's a $0.00 now.

If he defaulted on the Mortgage and there was a foreclosure on it and it was repossessed and sold to pay off that Original "Chase" loan or it was bought off by someone and paid off and sold, then of course, the original Chase Mortgage would be a zero.

If he foreclosed, and the home only sold for the original value of the home plus only a portion of the Ditech Loan, the original Home Equity Loan, through Chase is the one that takes precidence, so basically a home equity, home improvement or a 2nd mortgage through Ditech, would not take priority.

Many times in a foreclosure, they sell the home and they get what they can and they write off the rest, even if they cannot sell the home for the remaining balance on the Original Mortgage. Many times "Home Equity Loans" which, in reality it could possibly be , may not have been paid off during the foreclosure proceedings which would mean, that the security on the home for the Home Equity loan, would be a bit null and void since the original loan did get paid their full amount or only the original amount of the home equity loan and there was not enough to pay off the 2nd mortgage.

Therefore, the Home Equity loan on Ditech would still be out there "unsecured" because the original Mortgage takes precidence over the Home Equity loan, therefore, leaving a balance, on the Home Equity Loan.

What if they found out the home equity loan was not used for "equity" and he did purchase the VX and though there was some left over for fixes on the place, they foreclosed on the home, the original loan was covered during the foreclosure, but that still lef thim with the responsibility of the home equity loan or the 2nd mortgage, because he actually purchased the VX with that money?

Gosh, I hope you all can understand where my thinking is on this, but it makes sense to me, a bit. Anyone know anything about Mortgages and Home Improvement or 2nd mortgages?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

All I know, trix, is that you can take out a home equity loan and use the money for anything you choose. It doesn't have to be used for improvements to the home. (Unless there's a specific type of loan out there that includes those types of stipulations but not home equity loans in general.)

 

[terminatrixator]

True, I know people that took out home equity loans, and they had to write what the loan was going to be used for, but it's not monitored, you just have to state what it is going to be used for, so I think you are right on that.

Thanks for responding, I hope that what I was attempting to state makes some sense. It is to me now, moreso, considering the price of the VX.

It may have been easy for the Rave to convince Janet of the need for a "Home Equity" loan.

He problably did not state the real price of the VX, got a home equity loan, in the guise of making some improvements to the home, and paying off credit cards, etc.

If you look at all the loans, there are several capital one and discover cards that have a zero balance, but he could have gotten a new capital one and had the cards consolidated and paid off the balances and put on one card, considering there was like 5 capital one cards, and 4 or 5 discovery cards with only one of each with balances.

I know that he was controlling and probably controlled the money and paying of the bills, so Janet may not have known how much he owed to everyone and he quite possibly lied about how much he paid for the VX and how much home equity loan he took out.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

True, I know people that took out home equity loans, and they had to write what the loan was going to be used for, but it's not monitored, you just have to state what it is going to be used for, so I think you are right on that.

We've taken two home equity loans in the past, and we didn't even have to write what we were using it for.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

If you look at all the loans, there are several capital one and discover cards that have a zero balance, but he could have gotten a new capital one and had the cards consolidated and paid off the balances and put on one card, considering there was like 5 capital one cards, and 4 or 5 discovery cards with only one of each with balances.

That could be just one Capital One and one Discover card. Credit reports sometimes list the same account several times based on activities on the account. If only one of the 5 has a balance, I'm inclined to believe that it's all the same account, just listed multiple times.

I know that he was controlling and probably controlled the money and paying of the bills, so Janet may not have known how much he owed to everyone and he quite possibly lied about how much he paid for the VX and how much home equity loan he took out.

He could have taken the loan without Janet even knowing if her name was not on the original mortgage. He could even have forged her name. With our one loan, I kid you not - my husband brought the paperwork home, I signed it, and he returned it to the bank without me. They never saw me, never saw me sign anything, yet gave him a substantial loan on a house that is in both of our names.

 

[terminatrixator]

That could be just one Capital One and one Discover card. Credit reports sometimes list the same account several times based on activities on the account. If only one of the 5 has a balance, I'm inclined to believe that it's all the same account, just listed multiple times.

He could have taken the loan without Janet even knowing if her name was not on the original mortgage. He could even have forged her name. With our one loan, I kid you not - my husband brought the paperwork home, I signed it, and he returned it to the bank without me. They never saw me, never saw me sign anything, yet gave him a substantial loan on a house that is in both of our names.

True, except the Capital One and Discovers all have different mailing addresses which kinda through me off.

Wow,I believe you may be right and perhaps Janet didn't even know.

 

[caffeinatd]

We've taken two home equity loans in the past, and we didn't even have to write what we were using it for.

I actually took out an equity loan, bought a car, so I would have the tax deduction that i couldn't get with a car loan...difference for me, I paid off the equity before I sold the house.