Bob Saget dead at 65 -- hours after performing live

[BeginnerSleuther]

A) The Orlando Police Department did not immediately return CNN's request for comment. (Bob Saget had Covid-19 and died as a result of blunt head trauma, according to autopsy report - CNN)
B) Why did it take a month to discover he died from a massive head injury
C) Why did it take 12 hours to find a man in his hotel room?
Saget was found unresponsive in his room by hotel staff at about 4 p.m. Eastern Standard Time

Just a guess, but it didn't take a month to discover he died from a massive head injury. That was likely obvious from the moment they started the autopsy, if not in the hotel room itself. It likely took a month to complete all testing, including toxicology testing (which can take a while) and investigate any possibility of foul play, particularly with the extent of injuries he suffered.

Re: 12 hours. Was it 12 hours? When did the family call? Because if they found him at 4 pm, that would imply he was injured at 4 am, but even if that's true, the hotel (or even the family) is likely not waking guests up at 4 am. Since he tweeted around 3:30 in the morning, I'm guessing no one even raised an alarm that they hadn't seen/heard from him until at least 11 am - noon. I know from experience it takes A LOT to get hotels to open guest's room. So as the afternoon wore on and he hadn't checked out and/or family called repeatedly, they finally opened it at 4 pm.

I'm wondering if he had a Do Not Disturb sign up so housekeeping wouldn't come in.

 

[gngr~snap]

Who has stayed in a hotel in 2022?
Not me! My friend did, for 5 days. They had to do the upkeep in the room the had in Savannah GA themselves. The staff would not enter the room until they checked out. Towels and bed linens were left by the door daily. They had instructions on what to do with dirty linens. They were told to drop a note at the desk for soap, etc... on an as needed basis. It was also left at the door.
I'm not sure we can assume during COVID times any hotel stay is ordinary...
Perhaps at the Ritz it was? He should have checked out before 4pm, but knowing he had a late show he may have opted for a later check out than usual.
Doesn't explain his injuries, but perhaps why no one found him sooner.
MOO

 

[IceIce9]

Who has stayed in a hotel in 2022?
Not me! My friend did, for 5 days. They had to do the upkeep in the room the had in Savannah GA themselves. The staff would not enter the room until they checked out. Towels and bed linens were left by the door daily. They had instructions on what to do with dirty linens. They were told to drop a note at the desk for soap, etc... on an as needed basis. It was also left at the door.
I'm not sure we can assume during COVID times any hotel stay is ordinary...
Perhaps at the Ritz it was? He should have checked out before 4pm, but knowing he had a late show he may have opted for a later check out than usual.
Doesn't explain his injuries, but perhaps why no one found him sooner.
MOO

I travel for work and frequently stay in hotels. Some hotel chains (Holiday Inn Express and other economy hotels) only provide housekeeping service every third day and you have to request towels and amenities at the front desk.

Better hotels still provide full service, and I am guessing the Ritz is a full service hotel.

 

[GeorgiaRai]

I think the hotel chain AND the location (state) of the hotel affect the level of Covid restrictions. I stayed at a Ritz in Amelia Island, FL in March of 2021 and it was full service even then.

Physical check out is not necessary most of the time, in my experience. It's available by app or on the room tv, but if you don't do anything, the hotel assumes you've left, processes your charges electronically, and deactivates your keys. Housekeeping will enter your room when they get to it on their cleaning schedule. And, of course, guests often reserve the room for an additional day, just to have access to it past the typical 11 a.m. check-out time (even if they don't intend to spend another night there).

 

[Herat]

He was found lying in bed according the first reports.

This is such a severe injury and would have been so painful I don't see how he could have gotten into bed normally, or called for help. The fracture comminuted from the R occipital bone to the R temporal bone to the orbits! That is not the usual "bumped my head".

I fell recently when my heel caught on the carpet in an office in the daytime, and I twisted and tumbled backwards, hitting my posterior occipital head on a wall. It was drywall, not hard porcelain like a bathtub, toilet, or even a stone countertop. I was a bit dazed and had to sit for a moment before getting up. I had a little bruise on my head, but it didnt break the skin. He must have really had a very hard impact to break the skin there and cause a subgaleal (essentially subcutaneous) hemorrhage.

He might have briefly lost consciousness then been able to crawl back to the bed.
I'm thinking the Trazodone must have made him drowsy, not aware of the severity of his injury

 

[Herat]

Just a guess, but it didn't take a month to discover he died from a massive head injury. That was likely obvious from the moment they started the autopsy, if not in the hotel room itself. It likely took a month to complete all testing, including toxicology testing (which can take a while) and investigate any possibility of foul play, particularly with the extent of injuries he suffered.

Re: 12 hours. Was it 12 hours? When did the family call? Because if they found him at 4 pm, that would imply he was injured at 4 am, but even if that's true, the hotel (or even the family) is likely not waking guests up at 4 am. Since he tweeted around 3:30 in the morning, I'm guessing no one even raised an alarm that they hadn't seen/heard from him until at least 11 am - noon. I know from experience it takes A LOT to get hotels to open guest's room. So as the afternoon wore on and he hadn't checked out and/or family called repeatedly, they finally opened it at 4 pm.

I'm wondering if he had a Do Not Disturb sign up so housekeeping wouldn't come in.

Yes, the fresh periorbital hemorrhage, maybe looking like fresh black eyes would have alerted the pathologist that there was evidence of some kind of trauma, and not just a cardiac arrest-type situation. There might have been some blood on the pillow or sheets because of the scalp laceration

 

[GeorgiaRai]

... This is such a severe injury and would have been so painful I don't see how he could have gotten into bed normally, or called for help. The fracture comminuted from the R occipital bone to the R temporal bone to the orbits! That is not the usual "bumped my head". ...

This is exactly what I have trouble reconciling. It doesn't seem like could've been ignored (and no way it could've happened earlier in the evening, IMO). If it didn't knock him out completely, it seems like his one act would've been to try to get to a phone to call for help, not lay down comfortably on the bed.

I also have trouble picturing how a person of his height could've fallen straight back, and what he could've hit with the back of his head to do this kind of damage. Feet slipping out from under someone on a wet shower or bathroom floor makes the most sense, I guess, but from the floor plans of the hotel bathrooms, it's hard to visualize where & how it could happen. I also think if he was injured so badly in the bathroom, yet managed to crawl to and up into the bed, it would've been (and maybe it is) obvious to those who found him (i.e., was he dressed? wet towels? bedding in disarray?)

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

Normally I’m an Occam’s Razor kind of person. But this leaves a lot to be explained.

Occam’s razor adjusts to circumstances - if it sounds like rhinos running it’s not horses.

 

[SandyQLS]

I know there is general dislike of DM, but this morning they have 2 pages of the autopsy and a simplified skull/brain graphic:

Bob Saget's head injury was so severe it was like he'd been hit with a BASEBALL BAT, says doctor | Daily Mail Online

This is similar to the infamous skull injuries of JonBenet Ramsey.

JMO I have about a 1% belief in the official story that after this head blow, Bob S. was conscious at all and able to crawl to his bed. I have a 99% belief he was immediately unconscious. Was he struck from behind while he was sleeping?

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

Ok then we have to ask, what would be the motives in harming him?

- Personal
- Opportunistic crime
- Misadventure?

 

[happyday]

Could he have possibly had a seizure causing the head injuries? I know benzos are so highly addictive that after long term use your body needs more and more and more often or you’ll go into withdrawal, which can cause fainting, tremors and seizures. Even though a benzo was in his system, he could have still had a seizure if he didn’t take another dose soon enough? This happened to someone I know, and he had a terrible seizure. Just thinking of what could have caused those fractures in multiple places on his head. It definitely doesn’t sit right, but the family seems to accept it, and I just wonder why.

 

[Herat]

I know there is general dislike of DM, but this morning they have 2 pages of the autopsy and a simplified skull/brain graphic:

Bob Saget's head injury was so severe it was like he'd been hit with a BASEBALL BAT, says doctor | Daily Mail Online

This is similar to the infamous skull injuries of JonBenet Ramsey.

JMO I have about a 1% belief in the official story that after this head blow, Bob S. was conscious at all and able to crawl to his bed. I have a 99% belief he was immediately unconscious. Was he struck from behind while he was sleeping?

The file photo of him released has him wearing glasses. Did he also have contact lenses, too? I have to take my contacts out to sleep in and don't navigate well without them in, especially in the dark. Either way, presbyopia would make him more prone to stumbling or tripping in the dark after 3 am. Would be of use to know where his glasses were when he was found. I also assume his phone was found beside the bed.

I'm also of the belief that he would not have quickly been able to get up and move from the bathroom into the bed with such an extensive injury. I don't think there are many other surfaces in the hotel room that would be able to cause such a big fracture from a fall. It would have to be a non-malleable surface like porcelain, stone, marble, far less likely from from a wooden countertop or even a lamp, which would move with an impact. From the description, it appears there was only a single point of impact and the remaining fractures are the severity of the blow crossing the fused sutures of the frontal bone. With "multiple fractures of the orbital roofs, bilaterally. The posterior occipit bone is quite thick and dense. It can usually accept the impact of a large blow without having the force spread across sutures to other bones.

I hope they examined the skin surfaces of the wound and took sections. There could be microscopic particles from the surface at the edge of the wound. The areas of bruising around the laceration could also give an imprint of the surface that he hit, if it had a contour.

This really doesn't add up very well and I'm concerned the scene wasn't properly handled for a forensic case before being released to the hotel for cleaning.

 

[happyday]

Ok then we have to ask, what would be the motives in harming him?

- Personal
- Opportunistic crime
- Misadventure?

I just don’t see him being murdered and tucked into bed. Also there are cameras in a Ritz Carlton, and they would have seen someone entering his room, or at least some where in the vicinity late that night. It wouldn’t be hard to figure out if some came in and killed him.
I lean more toward although it was an accident, it didn’t exactly happen how they’re saying, but the family knows and wants to keep it private. That makes more sense to me.

 

[Herat]

Could he have possibly had a seizure causing the head injuries? I know benzos are so highly addictive that after long term use your body needs more and more and more often or you’ll go into withdrawal, which can cause fainting, tremors and seizures. Even though a benzo was in his system, he could have still had a seizure if he didn’t take another dose soon enough? This happened to someone I know, and he had a terrible seizure. Just thinking of what could have caused those fractures in multiple places on his head. It definitely doesn’t sit right, but the family seems to accept it, and I just wonder why.

Seizures often cause urinary incontinence. This should have been noted at the time the room was examined. Also, the state of the bathroom should have been examined. Towels? Wet? Wet floor or shower curtain? Bathmat wet? Room carpet wet?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

This is exactly what I have trouble reconciling. It doesn't seem like could've been ignored (and no way it could've happened earlier in the evening, IMO). If it didn't knock him out completely, it seems like his one act would've been to try to get to a phone to call for help, not lay down comfortably on the bed.

I also have trouble picturing how a person of his height could've fallen straight back, and what he could've hit with the back of his head to do this kind of damage. Feet slipping out from under someone on a wet shower or bathroom floor makes the most sense, I guess, but from the floor plans of the hotel bathrooms, it's hard to visualize where & how it could happen. I also think if he was injured so badly in the bathroom, yet managed to crawl to and up into the bed, it would've been (and maybe it is) obvious to those who found him (i.e., was he dressed? wet towels? bedding in disarray?)

Everyone seems to be leaving out that he also had a severe heart condition (likely unknown). This means he was extremely vulnerable to arrhythmia and syncopal episodes (meaning fainting). If he fainted, he could have hit his head.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I know there is general dislike of DM, but this morning they have 2 pages of the autopsy and a simplified skull/brain graphic:

Bob Saget's head injury was so severe it was like he'd been hit with a BASEBALL BAT, says doctor | Daily Mail Online

This is similar to the infamous skull injuries of JonBenet Ramsey.

JMO I have about a 1% belief in the official story that after this head blow, Bob S. was conscious at all and able to crawl to his bed. I have a 99% belief he was immediately unconscious. Was he struck from behind while he was sleeping?

While it is possible they're all wrong, I'm on a forum with at least a half dozen forensic pathologists (real names, not anonymous) who say they've seen this injury pattern before (not the exact same injuries, but the pattern itself) and that they fully believe this could happen in a posterior fall. These are people who have no stake in this one way or the other and are experts in discerning how someone sustained injuries/how someone died.

For what it's worth.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Could he have possibly had a seizure causing the head injuries? I know benzos are so highly addictive that after long term use your body needs more and more and more often or you’ll go into withdrawal, which can cause fainting, tremors and seizures. Even though a benzo was in his system, he could have still had a seizure if he didn’t take another dose soon enough? This happened to someone I know, and he had a terrible seizure. Just thinking of what could have caused those fractures in multiple places on his head. It definitely doesn’t sit right, but the family seems to accept it, and I just wonder why.

While possible, benzo withdrawal with Klonopin severe enough to cause a seizure is VERY unlikely. This is because Klonopin is long acting and, in a sense, self tapering. The reason benzos can cause withdrawal is because they have a similar effect as alcohol. The short-acting ones, like Xanax, are the most dangerous because they hit a peak and quickly leave the body. The way to insure a safe discontinuation of meds like Xanax is by slowly tapering and cutting the dose very, very slowly so the body adjusts as the dose gets smaller. Because Klonopin is so long acting, it leaves the body slowly on its own so while withdrawal would be possible, the type of withdrawal that would lead to seizures would be extremely unlikely, probably way more unlikely than any other mechanism of fall.

Could he have had a seizure in general? Sure, it's possible. But highly doubtful it was from Klonopin.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Seizures often cause urinary incontinence. This should have been noted at the time the room was examined. Also, the state of the bathroom should have been examined. Towels? Wet? Wet floor or shower curtain? Bathmat wet? Room carpet wet?

While urinary incontinence would raise concern for a seizure, you can totally have a seizure without urinary incontinence. There's nothing to point to a seizure though so I don't think that's what happened.

 

[Herat]

Here's the full autopsy report. Would love thoughts from those with medical backgrounds

Autopsy report confirms Bob Saget was Covid POSITIVE at his time of death | Daily Mail Online

Page 1 is below, there are more pages at the link

View attachment 333230

The two pages posted are only the final, summary report.

They are not the full autopsy which should include a full description of the body, and more complete gross and microscopic description of the other organs. The full toxicology report is also not included. I don't see any comments about any microscopic description of the skin wound was done. I don't see if there was a description of the state of the dentition, the mouth, the tongue, the throat that might indicate some other trauma or seizure-like trauma, so we can't really determine if it wasn't performed or if there weren't any findings to that effect. The respiratory exam seems targeted to determine if there was pulmonary Covid changes. The ME would want to determine if he had aspirated at all during the injury or in a terminal state, so I have to assume the omission means it wasn't found.

I'm assuming there is more information, which has been shared with the family, but the full report isn't going to be publicly available.

 

[Herat]

Everyone seems to be leaving out that he also had a severe heart condition (likely unknown). This means he was extremely vulnerable to arrhythmia and syncopal episodes (meaning fainting). If he fainted, he could have hit his head.

Umm. His heart condition is a very very common one and he was not evidently being treated for it. Without a prior history of syncopal episodes or arrythmias, I don't think this is a likely cause of a fall.