Bob Saget dead at 65 -- hours after performing live

[kaen]

There was no reports of blood or signs of a struggle. Water in the bathroom would have evaporated. Towels on the floor or other common messiness wouldn't be seen as room as disordered or cause for concern. He is dead in his bed. No apparent signs of struggle. No blood everywhere. It probably didn't look like a crime scene. We don't know if his door was deadbolted which would imply that no one exited from the door. And, surveillance would most likely be saved and/or checked to make sure there was not another person in the room. I think it is probably a medication related accident and the family knows this.

 

[kaen]

Of course, but how many of those people have no other injuries but head trauma? How do you only hit your head and bruise no other part of your body?

A couple of years ago, I fell off of a step and had a massive fracture of a number of bones in my leg ---including splintering and pancaking of bones. The injury was from a two step fall. My surgeon, who is an expert in the field of these kinds of injuries, was incredulous that my injury occurred the way it did. Usually, my injury extent with the extensive trauma is only found in high impact injuries related to skiing or snowboarding. I was doing neither but was in a pair of slippers and stepped on a wet step, falling on a concrete floor.

I think it happens that what might been usually seen is not necessarily the only way it is seen when it comes to massive injury. We are all also familiar with people who have the opposite occur with minor injuries in a major accident event.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

But the cause of the fall is what I would like to know. As it said in the report: “In consideration of the circumstances surrounding the death.”

Mechanism of injury means what injured him. That was a posterior fall. Why that fall happened is beyond the scope of mechanism of injury. Circumstances surrounding the death include anything that might have predisposed him to the fall such as drugs or alcohol, but isn't necessarily something that will be revealed if it's speculative that it was an underlying health condition. The circumstances, in general, are that he had a fall without any drugs or alcohol in his system (besides prescription) and fractured his skull. That's really all circumstances mean in accidental cases. Now in murder cases, you might expect more detail.

ETA: the report also reveals blockage of arteries leading to the heart. It is possible he had an arrhythmia or was light headed or had chest pain immediately prior to the fall. When a person passes out/faints from cardiac related issues, they can have catastrophic falls.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

But this makes no sense. Upthread there is a quote from an expert who told the NYT it was like getting hit with a baseball bat or falling 20-30 feet.

Yes, but that expert doesn't necessarily speak for all experts. I do think the injuries are consistent with a baseball bat attack, but that doesn't mean they can't happen from a nasty fall.

 

[Gardenista]

Yes, but that expert doesn't necessarily speak for all experts. I do think the injuries are consistent with a baseball bat attack, but that doesn't mean they can't happen from a nasty fall.

Sure, but if you have a nasty fall, you aren't only going to hit your head.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

From the article:

Trazodone isn’t without risks, however. It appears to be more likely than other sleep drugs to leave you feeling drowsy the next day, which increases the chance of having an accident, particularly while driving or using heavy machinery.

It can also cause abnormally low blood pressure and, in turn, trigger dizziness or even fainting, particularly in seniors, which can increase the risk of falling. A study in the Canadian Medical Association Journal found that seniors with dementia who were given trazodone as a sleep aid were as likely to fall as seniors given antipsychotics, other drugs that can cause sedation.

This is entirely dependent on the patient. Every medication has side effects, but not every patient experiences these side effects. Trazodone can lead to falls in certain individuals, but many, many people have been taking trazodone nightly for 20 years without any difficulty. We don't know enough about his history to make the determination. If it was a new med for him, then absolutely I'd be in the camp of ruling out a trazodone related fall, but if this was a med he took regularly, it's unlikely.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Even if it caused someone to faint that doesn’t seem likely to cause injuries that are similar to being hit in the head with a bat or a 20-30 foot fall.

You're right that it's unlikely, but it's possible. As was said earlier in the thread, everything had to have happened just right for this type of injury. Many other doctors are speaking out, including at least one forensic pathologist (the true experts in mechanism of death) and they accept the fall theory.

Forensic pathologist on Bob Saget autopsy: It takes a lot of force to cause this fracture

 

[IceIce9]

Mechanism of injury means what injured him. That was a posterior fall. Why that fall happened is beyond the scope of mechanism of injury. Circumstances surrounding the death include anything that might have predisposed him to the fall such as drugs or alcohol, but isn't necessarily something that will be revealed if it's speculative that it was an underlying health condition. The circumstances, in general, are that he had a fall without any drugs or alcohol in his system (besides prescription) and fractured his skull. That's really all circumstances mean in accidental cases. Now in murder cases, you might expect more detail.

What I am talking about is
skull fracture>automobile crash>head struck windshield

or

skull fracture>fall>posterior strike toilet, anterior strike tub.

Just for example.

Also, I think there would also be other injuries noted such as abrasions and bruising to the arms, elbows, etc.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Sure, but if you have a nasty fall, you aren't only going to hit your head.

Forgive me, I haven't read the whole report. Does it say he suffered no other injuries or does it say he suffered no other "fatal" injuries? If he fell from standing, such as a fall backwards, hitting his head very hard, it is possible to cause massive injuries only to your head.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

What I am talking about is
skull fracture>automobile crash>head struck windshield

or

skull fracture>fall>posterior strike toilet, anterior strike tub.

Just for example.

Also, I think there would also be other injuries noted such as abrasions and bruising to the arms, elbows, etc.

JMO

He doesn't even have to have had a frontal head strike. He might have fallen backwards with enough force that it could have caused a frontal fracture as well in a coup-countercoup mechanism.

 

[IceIce9]

He doesn't even have to have had a frontal head strike. He might have fallen backwards with enough force that it could have caused a frontal fracture as well in a coup-countercoup mechanism.

Yes, we did discuss coup-contrecoup earlier in the thread. I still have questions.

We can agree to disagree, and I doubt that any other information will be forthcoming anyway.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yes, we did discuss coup-contrecoup earlier in the thread. I still have questions.

We can agree to disagree, and I doubt that any other information will be forthcoming anyway.

Oh I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I still have questions too. Like I said earlier, I really hope they do their due diligence to make sure this was an accident. I'm just offering the pov that it can happen. It would be one of those freak accidents.

 

[NoSI]

What I am talking about is
skull fracture>automobile crash>head struck windshield

or

skull fracture>fall>posterior strike toilet, anterior strike tub.

Just for example.

Also, I think there would also be other injuries noted such as abrasions and bruising to the arms, elbows, etc.

JMO

Great post! Something like "skull fracture>fall>posterior strike toilet, anterior strike tub" is a definite possibility. It had to be a coup- contrecoup type situation
that caused his injuries.

Regarding clonazepam and trazodone... There are other factors to consider as well, including how long he has been on them. For example, if one of them was a new med or there was a dosage increase, he could have developed unexpected drowsiness, impaired coordination, dizziness etc., which inncreased fall risk. Much research exists that benzodiazepines, including clonazepam, increases the risk of falling when used either as monotherapy or in combined therapies.

I do agree that it had to be a very significant fall and not just a headboard hit.

RIP Mr. Sage! You brought many much joy!

 

[Gardenista]

If anyone is interested, here are the floor plans at the Ritz Carlton Orlando

Luxury Hotels & Resorts | The Ritz-Carlton

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Great post! Something like "skull fracture>fall>posterior strike toilet, anterior strike tub" is a definite possibility. It had to be a coup- contrecoup type situation
that caused his injuries.

Regarding clonazepam and trazodone... There are other factors to consider as well, including how long he has been on them. For example, if one of them was a new med or there was a dosage increase, he could have developed unexpected drowsiness, impaired coordination, dizziness etc., which inncreased fall risk. Much research exists that benzodiazepines, including clonazepam, increases the risk of falling when used either as monotherapy or in combined therapies.

I do agree that it had to be a very significant fall and not just a headboard hit.

RIP Mr. Sage! You brought many much joy!

Just a point of clarification. Contrecoup suggests there was no frontal impact and the brain was injured at a site opposite the impact site. So if he fell posteriorly with enough force, he could have an injury to both the back of his brain (point of impact) and the front of the brain (the point opposite impact) and really anything in between. This phenomenon is thought to be caused by the skull being hit by such force that the brain rebounds to the opposite side, potentially injuring itself by colliding with the skull on that side. So if someone is hit on the right, they could have an injury to both the right and the left. The injury on the left without another impact point is what would tell us it's a coup-contrecoup injury.

In the case of Saget, this is what forensic pathologists believe happened.

 

[NoSI]

Just a point of clarification. Contrecoup suggests there was no frontal impact and the brain was injured at a site opposite the impact site. So if he fell posteriorly with enough force, he could have an injury to both the back of his brain (point of impact) and the front of the brain (the point opposite impact) and really anything in between. This phenomenon is thought to be caused by the skull being hit by such force that the brain rebounds to the opposite side, potentially injuring itself by colliding with the skull on that side. So if someone is hit on the right, they could have an injury to both the right and the left. The injury on the left without another impact point is what would tell us it's a coup-contrecoup injury.

In the case of Saget, this is what forensic pathologists believe happened.

You are right! I worded that incorrectly. I meant 2 sites of impact as I don't believe that 1 site of impact could have caused the fracture on base of skull as well as orbital area . I have not seen the actual autopsy report so forgive me if i don't have all the details. I will see if i can find the autopsy report online.

 

[IceIce9]

Some of the injuries described seem to be more than the usual coup contrecoup, MOO

Some neurosurgeons said that it would be unusual for a typical fall to cause Mr. Saget’s set of fractures — to the back, the right side and the front of his skull. Those doctors said that the injuries appeared more reminiscent of ones suffered by people who fall from a considerable height or get thrown from their seat in a car crash.

The autopsy, though, found no injuries to other parts of Mr. Saget’s body, as would be expected in a lengthier fall. The medical examiner ruled that the death was accidental. The local sheriff’s office had previously said there were no signs of foul play.

“This is significant trauma,” said Dr. Gavin Britz, the chair in neurosurgery at Houston Methodist. “This is something I find with someone with a baseball bat to the head, or who has fallen from 20 or 30 feet.”
Dr.Britz noted that the autopsy described fractures to particularly thick parts of the skull, as well as to bones in the roof of the eye socket. “If you fracture your orbit,” he said, referring to those eye bones, “you have significant pain.”


Bob Saget’s Autopsy Report Describes Severe Skull Fractures

 

[pbj]

I'M THINKING THERE WILL BE MORE FACTS TO COME


Given the seriousness of his skull and orbital fractures, I think there are more facts to come. Did he fall on stairs after his show? Did he hit his head while exiting his car? We're focusing on once he was in his hotel room but shouldn't exclude events occurring before he entered his hotel room but after his show. It seems impossible that he would be able to perform a two hour show with such serious injuries. Thanks for reading.

 

[Seattle1]

He was not a small man and a fall from standing on something like a porcelain toilet or tub could result in a fracture. If he was on sleep aids, then he might have fallen backward and then forward. Unfortunately, we will never know but it all seems plausible from my pov. People slip in the shower all the time and get skull fractures/ hip fractures/ etc. He had not been out on the road for a while. He seemed to spend lots of time with his spouse.....if started taking these meds (or had used them before and was beginning again) he might not have realized the effects that he was experiencing. When people get into a medication fog, they often don't make great decisions.

BS was a guest at the Ritz Hotel Orlando -- where the exec suite BA's are described as marble.

 

[RstJ]

A) The Orlando Police Department did not immediately return CNN's request for comment. (Bob Saget had Covid-19 and died as a result of blunt head trauma, according to autopsy report - CNN)
B) Why did it take a month to discover he died from a massive head injury
C) Why did it take 12 hours to find a man in his hotel room?
Saget was found unresponsive in his room by hotel staff at about 4 p.m. Eastern Standard Time