Bob Saget dead at 65 -- hours after performing live

[AC's Grandma]

In my opinion the injury happened in the bathroom, he likely slipped getting into or out of the shower and struck his head on the toilet, possibly followed by then his head hitting the floor. This would definitely be enough pressure to cause these injuries and he may have not felt much pain at first and went to lie down. Once there he may have fallen asleep with just a bit of a head ache and pain, especially if he took meds to sleep and never woke up. Just a scenario that seems very realistic to me if whatever occurred took place in the room.

 

[pbj]

I'm sorry to hear about your brother. Momentum isn't necessarily make or break. Certainly when there is momentum such as in your brother's case, we see severe brain injuries. But lack of momentum shouldn't reassure people that their head bump was nothing. Natasha Richardson fell down (not into a tree). She fell on the snowy mountain and bumped her head, but was otherwise fine. I don't know how much momentum was involved because I'm not sure how fast she was going or exactly how she fell. But she didn't collide with any objects.

Here's an article that explains it in non-medical terms.

Natasha Richardson’s death and what you should know about brain injuries | MinnPost

There are multiple mechanisms by which someone can bump their head in a way that causes severe injury. The brain is surrounded by blood vessels so if you hit your head hard enough or in just the right spot where one of those vessels is affected or torn or the brain bounces around, it can cause a brain bleed. In some cases, your body will reabsorb the blood. In cases like NR's, you won't have symptoms until hours later because the bleed is slow. In still other cases, the trauma is too severe and people lose consciousness right away or don't realize there's a problem until it's too late.

In BS's case, with the amount of damage done, I can't see how a headboard injury could be the answer. A fall is much more likely, imo. But if there hadn't been that amount of damage, I buy that hitting your head on a headboard, in general, can potentially cause a brain bleed.

Very interesting and informative post, Beginner Sleuther. Not meaning to pry, but are you an MD? If so, and if you feel comfortable answering, what is your specialty? Thanks and keep those explanations coming!

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Experts are disagreeing about this on various MSM websites. All are experts in their fields but their opinions differ.

I know, and it's ok to disagree. Where I think we should draw the line is saying certain things are not possible when we know they are, even if we think those things didn't happen in this case.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Very interesting and informative post, Beginner Sleuther. Not meaning to pry, but are you an MD? If so, and if you feel comfortable answering, what is your specialty? Thanks and keep those explanations coming!

Yes I am and now verified. I don't feel comfortable divulging my specialty due to anonymity, but I will tell you it is not forensic pathology (the real experts in determining cause of injury/death).

 

[branmuffin]

Sheriff is right. Florida has very stringent sunshine laws. I can see them denying the autopsy photos/videos, but not the rest of it. I'll be interested in seeing how this shakes out.

A couple of years ago, a woman called Kelly Glover drowned in the lake that surrounded the Florida hotel she was staying at. Even though Florida doesn't make autopsy results available to the general public you can request a copy. One of the posters on the Kelly Glover thread made the request and received the autopsy report. She didn't publicize it on the thread but did provide it to those interested enough to view it through PMs. It appears the Saget family may have effectively preempted that by filing the lawsuit to block any release.

 

[Quiet Time]

Makes sense. But how did he get back to bed to lie peacefully with one arm over his chest?

Oh gosh, I have no idea.
Crawled?

 

[branmuffin]

There have definitely been cases where the ME has gotten wrong (proven by second autopsy) or there are certain injuries children have (often rare) that result in injuries that appear to be caused by child abuse, but are actually the result of everyday activities. Those are sad cases. Without seeing a specific example, I can't really comment on it, but basically these types of brain injuries are not common. Most of the time, if you hit your head, you'll be fine, but you can't always count on that. ANY fall in which there is a head strike has the potential to be catastrophic. Natasha Richardson (different type of head injury), really didn't hit her head hard. She didn't lose consciousness, she just banged her head. But she banged it in just the right spot where the consequences were fatal. This was because where she hit it, there are blood vessels and so she had a brain bleed inside the skull but outside her brain. There's very little room there so the increased pressure compresses the brain which eventually will lead to death.

There is also a certain injury pattern that we see in things like shaken baby syndrome. It isn't just the brain injury by itself, but the other things that accompany it that suggest trauma from shaking. A shaken baby will often have a retinal hemorrhage (bleeding in the vessels of the eye). When you see a baby with this type of brain injury and retinal hemorrhage, it suggests an injury in which the brain was thrust back and forth so you think of shaken baby. It doesn't mean it's definitive, but that's the injury pattern that's consistent.

In Bob Saget's case, for a fall to cause this kind of damage, everything had to happened just right. I think a few posters said a few pages ago that for BS to have this level of injury, it had to have been a serious impact (whatever the cause) and it had to have hit at exactly the place to cause all the other injuries.

Dr. Charles Smith was a coroner at Hospital for Sick Kids in Toronto. He performed numerous autopsies of children where he claimed manner of death was criminal in nature. His findings resulted in wrongful convictions of parents. Years later many of his results were reviewed and overturned freeing parents who had spent time in prison for murder. He automatically assumed in many cases that the parents had inflicted injuries on the children without any real evidence.

 

[branmuffin]

Can someone clarify if he was in street clothes or bed clothes when he was found? And reports say he was face down but his right arm was over his chest? That doesn't make sense (wouldn’t it be “under” his chest?). Here’s my theory: If he drove after his show in Jax to Orlando, he may have been tired, but he took his sleep meds anyway (trazodone and klonopin are often used for sleep) and was groggy in his room. The Ritz and the Marriott (they are contiguous on the property) are beautiful, and if I recall correctly, you either need to use the key to get the elevator to operate, or to access the club level rooms (I am guessing room 962 is a club level room). A quick look at the floor plan of the executive suites and similar rooms shows a large bathroom with a walk out shower, the tub in a separate area sort of perpendicular to it, and the sinks and toilet also separate. Its a big space. If he was in his street clothes, maybe he was in the bathroom and slipped on something, hitting his head, or passed out, hitting his head on the marble floor or tub (or sink or shower- it all looks marble and tile). Maybe when he awakened he was confused, also groggy from the sleep meds and drive, tried to get to bed and fell again, causing a second injury (once forward, once backward). While yes, the orbital bleeds could be a contrecoup injury, the orbital fractures don't quite fit, which is why I wonder if he fell twice before getting to the bed. While suspicion is understandable, I really don’t suspect foul play. And GatorFL is right about the Dale Earnhardt autopsy photos. The attorney the family initially hired was actually going to release the autopsy photos to a UF school paper (the FL Alligator), but the family changed legal representation to someone in Jax rather than Daytona Beach and the photos were suppressed.

IIRC his wife said he usually just power napped when he was going to take a very early flight. He usually just slept for a couple of hours before leaving for his flight. So it makes sense if he was just going to nap he would remain fully dressed and just lie on top of the covers. I think his flight was at 4 am. I can't remember what source I read that information, unfortunately. Much earlier in the thread.

 

[IceIce9]

Can someone clarify if he was in street clothes or bed clothes when he was found? And reports say he was face down but his right arm was over his chest? That doesn't make sense (wouldn’t it be “under” his chest?). Here’s my theory: If he drove after his show in Jax to Orlando, he may have been tired, but he took his sleep meds anyway (trazodone and klonopin are often used for sleep) and was groggy in his room. The Ritz and the Marriott (they are contiguous on the property) are beautiful, and if I recall correctly, you either need to use the key to get the elevator to operate, or to access the club level rooms (I am guessing room 962 is a club level room). A quick look at the floor plan of the executive suites and similar rooms shows a large bathroom with a walk out shower, the tub in a separate area sort of perpendicular to it, and the sinks and toilet also separate. Its a big space. If he was in his street clothes, maybe he was in the bathroom and slipped on something, hitting his head, or passed out, hitting his head on the marble floor or tub (or sink or shower- it all looks marble and tile). Maybe when he awakened he was confused, also groggy from the sleep meds and drive, tried to get to bed and fell again, causing a second injury (once forward, once backward). While yes, the orbital bleeds could be a contrecoup injury, the orbital fractures don't quite fit, which is why I wonder if he fell twice before getting to the bed. While suspicion is understandable, I really don’t suspect foul play. And GatorFL is right about the Dale Earnhardt autopsy photos. The attorney the family initially hired was actually going to release the autopsy photos to a UF school paper (the FL Alligator), but the family changed legal representation to someone in Jax rather than Daytona Beach and the photos were suppressed.

He was actually found (reportedly) as lying in bed supine, or face up. Some of the MSM reports got it wrong, saying he was found face down.

 

[no nonsense]

Am not seeing anyone saying something isn't possible, but we are saying that other explanations are equally or more possible.

 

[no nonsense]

And not sure why, when I click to quote a post, it doesn't seem to be working

 

[ginestra]

deleted

 

[Gardenista]

And not sure why, when I click to quote a post, it doesn't seem to be working

Don't click Quote, click Reply.

 

[no nonsense]

Don't click Quote, click Reply.

ah! thanks!

 

[GatorFL]

A couple of years ago, a woman called Kelly Glover drowned in the lake that surrounded the Florida hotel she was staying at. Even though Florida doesn't make autopsy results available to the general public you can request a copy. One of the posters on the Kelly Glover thread made the request and received the autopsy report. She didn't publicize it on the thread but did provide it to those interested enough to view it through PMs. It appears the Saget family may have effectively preempted that by filing the lawsuit to block any release.

Saget's AR is already public. I think the family is trying to block the photos and other investigative records. FL law covers the autopsy photos (they should be permanently sealed under the law) but the scene photos and other records could become public unless the judge's decision is not challenged.

 

[mcgreuder]

If it is true that he simply fell in the bathroom or hit his head on the headboard, and had injuries of that magnitude as a result, it seems that the family would want to sue the hotel as they would be liable. If they had a slippery floor or a dangerous headboard, they should be liable. I wonder why we aren’t hearing anything about that.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Am not seeing anyone saying something isn't possible, but we are saying that other explanations are equally or more possible.

Several people said things weren't possible.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If it is true that he simply fell in the bathroom or hit his head on the headboard, and had injuries of that magnitude as a result, it seems that the family would want to sue the hotel as they would be liable. If they had a slippery floor or a dangerous headboard, they should be liable. I wonder why we aren’t hearing anything about that.

I'm not so sure they could sue. Not an attorney but it seems to me that unless the hotel did or didn't do something that directly resulted in the accident, they wouldn't be liable. So for example, if BS slipped because he'd showered and the floor was wet, that isn't something the hotel could have controlled. If he fell because he was dizzy, again not something the hotel can control. It would be tough to suggest their floor was slippery unless this has happened to other guests as well. I think the same can be said for the headboards if they look like the ones in the photos posted here.

 

[Andreee]

dbm repeat

 

[Andreee]

If by chance Saget passed out in the marble/tile bathroom and fell backward, he would have made no attempt to break his fall. He was tall (6'4") so would have landed hard. Its possible (purely conjecturing) that if he passed out, he could have hit his head on, say the edge of the marble tub, the impact flipped him and he then landed face down on the floor. This could explain both the occipital and frontal fractures.

This makes alot of sense! Due to the electronic door locks or whatever they are called, lol, it was determined there were no entries or exits after Bob retired for the night until the next day when housekeepers went in. So it sounds like a tragic accident, but not one that is all that common leading to death; that I've heard happening very often?