Bosma Murder Trial 02.17.16 - Day 10

[Tamarind]

Of course. IMO, I don't know why I didn't think of that. Thank you.

You're welcome :loveyou:

 

[MsSherlock]

Maybe there was no need to clean it out as there was nothing in there of a criminal nature. It was left out in the open after all, and a vacuum would have sucked up ash, if it was thought to hold anything incriminating.

IIRC, it is alleged that CN assisted DM in moving the incinerator from the barn to the spot in the trees on May 9th- so to set things straight- it wasn't just sitting out in the open the whole time- unless you have information to the contrary of what the Crown is asserting. MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

IIRC, it is alleged that CN assisted DM in moving the incinerator from the barn to the spot in the trees on May 9th- so to set things straight- it wasn't just sitting out in the open the whole time- unless you have information to the contrary of what the Crown is asserting. MOO

Much like the trailer, it's pretty freaking disingenuous for anyone to refer to a giant piece of equipment being "out in the open" as proof of innocence. But there's plenty of disingenuous to go around here.

 

[Ontario Mom]

IIRC, it is alleged that CN assisted DM in moving the incinerator from the barn to the spot in the trees on May 9th- so to set things straight- it wasn't just sitting out in the open the whole time- unless you have information to the contrary of what the Crown is asserting. MOO

Not sure where my post went (maybe I accidentally deleted it myself?) but to jump off this, according to the phone ping evidence this also would have been really the only opportunity DM would have had to torch TB's truck seats. Assuming of course, the 3 seat belt buckles they found in the scorched areas on the ground, were the 3 missing seat belt buckles that would have been attached to the seats missing from Tim's truck.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Not sure where my post went (maybe I accidentally deleted it myself?) but to jump off this, according to the phone ping evidence this also would have been really the only opportunity DM would have had to torch TB's truck seats. Assuming of course, the 3 seat belt buckles they found in the scorched areas on the ground, were the 3 missing seat belt buckles that would have been attached to the seats missing from Tim's truck.

Nice catch.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Not sure where my post went (maybe I accidentally deleted it myself?) but to jump off this, according to the phone ping evidence this also would have been really the only opportunity DM would have had to torch TB's truck seats. Assuming of course, the 3 seat belt buckles they found in the scorched areas on the ground, were the 3 missing seat belt buckles that would have been attached to the seats missing from Tim's truck.

He must have been up all night, burning the seats, dropping off the toolbox, dropping off the truck...I wonder if he slept?

DM described being arrested as incredible and almost dream-like. Maybe he was delirious after a really, really busy night.

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm also wondering if they burned the seats during the daytime. They were all over the place. Back and forth between the hangar and the farm on the 7th. Could be they burned the seats during the day on the 7th and thus it wouldn't necessarily be as noticeable as it would have been at night. If you burn stuff, have a burn pile as many farms do, then suspicion would may not have been raised because they burning during the day and nobody paid any attention. Just a thought as some others wondered why, if everyone was so nosey, that no one called LE or Fire if they saw a fire in the middle of the night.

 

[Tamarind]

I'm also wondering if they burned the seats during the daytime. They were all over the place. Back and forth between the hangar and the farm on the 7th. Could be they burned the seats during the day on the 7th and thus it wouldn't necessarily be as noticeable as it would have been at night. If you burn stuff, have a burn pile as many farms do, then suspicion would may not have been raised because they burning during the day and nobody paid any attention. Just a thought as some others wondered why, if everyone was so nosey, that no one called LE or Fire if they saw a fire in the middle of the night.

In my opinion I think the smell of burning seats would be more noticeable. No-one called in for smelling a fire either from what I can see.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm also wondering if they burned the seats during the daytime. They were all over the place. Back and forth between the hangar and the farm on the 7th. Could be they burned the seats during the day on the 7th and thus it wouldn't necessarily be as noticeable as it would have been at night. If you burn stuff, have a burn pile as many farms do, then suspicion would may not have been raised because they burning during the day and nobody paid any attention. Just a thought as some others wondered why, if everyone was so nosey, that no one called LE or Fire if they saw a fire in the middle of the night.

I may not be remembering correctly (Good Lord there's so much evidence already!) but I'm thinking it was cover of night he used to take the incinerator back to the farm & torch the seats while he was there. A fire in the middle of the night would have only drawn attention IF someone had a direct line of vision from their home, to the area where the scorch marks were. If there were outbuildings, barns, silos and other homes obstructing the view, no one would have ever noticed it.

Not to mention, *most* farmers are in bed pretty darn early & up before most regular folk ever consider waking hours.

moo.

 

[Tamarind]

He must have been up all night, burning the seats, dropping off the toolbox, dropping off the truck...I wonder if he slept?

DM described being arrested as incredible and almost dream-like. Maybe he was delirious after a really, really busy night.

Oh I don't know, I think if I was somehow in the middle of a road or a raid and approached by men with guns drawn I think I could think I was dreaming or somewhere on the set of Mission Impossible. It would be how an innocent person might feel IMHO.

 

[palisadesk]

Perhaps there was something in the incinerator that made the AG issue a DI in the LB case? IMO, we wouldn't hear about that at this trial.

There could be DNA relevant to the LB case. I had a reasonable certainty that that must be the case early on and posted to that effect on some other thread back in the day. The evidence collection included dust and very small, even microscopic, material. DNA science has progressed to the point that minuscule samples can be used for identification, as happened in the Pickton case. We may not be told whether the DNA found in the incinerator belonged to more than one person.

 

[MsSherlock]

He must have been up all night, burning the seats, dropping off the toolbox, dropping off the truck...I wonder if he slept?

DM described being arrested as incredible and almost dream-like. Maybe he was delirious after a really, really busy night.

Do you think that maybe the seats were burnt on the "airport politics" day? IIRC, the cell phones of both accused travelled to Ayr that day. IMO, a couple 5 gallon containers of gas soaked into those seats would make them go poof pretty fast.

 

[palisadesk]

That's probably what the lawyers were arguing this morning for 2 hours - did CM have a right to be there? Apparently the answer is yes.

Even if CM, or another person, were trespassing on private property, trespassing is not a crime. It is more like some traffic offences, in that it is punishable by a fine, not to exceed $2 000. Of course, being on private property for criminal purposes is something else altogether. But the duty to report criminal activity, if the "trespasser" is aware of such, takes precedence. Similarly someone who trespasses on private property in order to provide assistance, or check the premises because of concern for the inhabitants (a neighbour checking up on an elderly person without being asked to do so) would technically be "trespassing" but would hardly be be fined for this.

There is also a concept called "implied consent." That is, if you have a driveway or walkway into the property, and there is no sign prohibiting entrance, strangers are free to come up the path/drive whatever without previous invitation because it is implied that the owner or tenant has given consent to such. The pathway referred to in the testimony that is or was entered by an entrance east of the driveway to the barn, if not marked NO TRESPASSING, may have been considered to give implied consent to foot traffic or bikers. Crops, tree nurseries, gardens, fenced off areas and other specific locales are excluded from "implied consent."

I can't see how even if a witness was trespassing, which this one wasn't, his testimony would not be admissible if pertinent. I thought perhaps the legal gerfuffle was with respect to the officer's saying that CM's information was "very concerning" or some such phrase. That's when one of the defense attorney's lodged an objection.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Do you think that maybe the seats were burnt on the "airport politics" day? IIRC, the cell phones of both accused travelled to Ayr that day. IMO, a couple 5 gallon containers of gas soaked into those seats would make them go poof pretty fast.

But, if DM were in Ayr torching stolen truck seats that most likely had loads of blood evidence on them... on 'airport politics' day, why would he care if anyone came to hangar?

 

[flipflop]

But, if DM were in Ayr torching stolen truck seats that most likely had loads of blood evidence on them... on 'airport politics' day, why would he care if anyone came to hangar?

Because the truck was still there.
Perhaps during business hours, the incinerator was burning in the parking lot, in the evening,
a bonfire was at the farm to burn the seats and other evidence. JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

I really need a cheat sheet on this timeline because it's too hard to remember all the details.

the 7th was "airport politics" day
the 8th AJ saw Tim's truck in the hangar & was creeped out
the 9th he took pics & called CS
the 9th (late at night) DM & CN went to the farm & moved the incinerator into the tree stand (forest, woods, bush, tree line - I've seen it called numerous things) (and did whatever else? torched the seats?) then dropped the trailer with Tim's truck in it, at DM's mom's driveway)
the 10th LE showed up at the hangar in the am
same day - AJ shows up for work and the truck is gone and DM tells him to collect his things and go
the 10th LE arrested him in the pm

Do I have the timeline correct?

 

[Tamarind]

But, if DM were in Ayr torching stolen truck seats that most likely had loads of blood evidence on them... on 'airport politics' day, why would he care if anyone came to hangar?

He signed the documents on his new real estate that day IIRC. He was busy, with that at some point.

 

[deugirtni]

Where is the link that says DM rented out his land? I thought he was referring to the farm beside DM that he had permission to ride on?

I am *so* confused! I assumed the Chas guy was referring to when a farmer *used* to lease land from the owner previous to DM. Do we know already that DM leased land to him as well, perhaps a continuation of a previous agreement was written into the agreement of purchase and sale on the Ayr property? Did Chas even know that the owner of the property had changed hands 2 years prior? Why wouldn't the defence have brought this up, if DM had been leasing the land to someone else, afterall, RP could then once again *attempt* to raise reasonable doubt, by saying, 'hey, see? It *couldn't* have been DM incinerating bodies in The Eliminator, since someone else was in fact leasing that land!'

 

[deugirtni]

:tyou: I did scroll through AC's but didn't see it. Will look again. I just thought there might have been another tweet to clarify WHO Main was meaning when he said he had snowmobiled with someone; new neighbours or DM. I suspect the present owner. But he does say he didn't know DM and doesn't know the new owner by name. MOO.

I believe he meant he has snowmobiled with the 'new owners' (after DM sold the property), but it really isn't specified. (Hate it when things are not clear!) Here are some posts, they are from Adam Carter's blog:

10:57 AM
Main says a friend's dad owns a property next to the property in question. Main says he has taken his dirtbike or snowmobile onto the property in question over 100 times.
10:58 AM
Farmer would let him use the trails for a "case of beer and a bottle of Crown Royal."
11:00 AM
Main says he doesn't know Dellen Millard. Says he has snowmobiled a few times with the new owners of 2548 Roseville Road, but doesn't know them by name.
11:01 AM
Court now seeing a Google Earth shot of the area in Ayr, Ont.
11:02 AM
Roseville Road runs east to west on the map.
11:04 AM
Fraser asking about a barn on one of the properties that Main would ride on. The farmer who owned the property would lease/rent some areas of the property, Main says.
11:06 AM
The edge of the 2548 property is near Main's friend's Adam's family property. It's just to the south.

 

[LoyalSleuth]

I really need a cheat sheet on this timeline because it's too hard to remember all the details.

the 7th was "airport politics" day
the 8th AJ saw Tim's truck in the hangar & was creeped out
the 9th he took pics & called CS
the 9th (late at night) DM & CN went to the farm & moved the incinerator into the tree stand (forest, woods, bush, tree line - I've seen it called numerous things) (and did whatever else? torched the seats?) then dropped the trailer with Tim's truck in it, at DM's mom's driveway)
the 10th LE showed up at the hangar in the am
same day - AJ shows up for work and the truck is gone and DM tells him to collect his things and go
the 10th LE arrested him in the pm

Do I have the timeline correct?

Sounds right.
I wish we knew if AJ saw or did not see the seats in the truck or in the bed od the truck.
I am wondering if the seats were taken out when DM and MS allegedly picked up the eliminator at the farm on the way to the hanger. Or if they were remove at the hangar and burned there...


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