Bosma Murder Trial 04.13.16 - Day 34

[Inspector_North]

Looking at this picture, and the fact that it has been mentioned several times that MS wore the same clothes most days. His shirt was black. It also looks like he is wearing a baseball cap in the video snapshot I previously posted. MOO

 

[Staceys]

I'm wondering why the hockey questions. Any ideas?

Distraction....DM says to get out of the "hole" he would need to make 100k/month for a few months but AM played AAA goal......

 

[andreww]

IMO...I think quite the opposite.
Plan to steal the truck as per AM, illegal LOADED weapon taken to the test drive, Mr. Bosma did not return home.
There was DM and MS in the vehicle with Tim...surely with all of their internet searches, they could've came up with a way that one of them would've been able to "knock out" Tim, even for a brief period of time so that they could get him out of the truck and successfully "steal" the Dodge.
There is no reasonable explanation as to why DM and MS needed to have the gun present if in fact, the test drive was set up to simply steal the truck.
Again, imo...I just can't wrap my mind around how the theft of a truck would include a gun.

You wouldn't make a very good criminal. Guns are a very persuasive tools. Generally people will do whatever you say when you point one. Every once in a while someone gets brave and usually they are the ones that end up dead. The back story on Tim and the truck, how it was a money pit and how desperate Tim was to sell it leads me to believe Tim was desperate enough to fight back.

Consider this as well, if that plan was to simply shoot him, why not just shoot Igor? If that is your intention, its not difficult. No, the object was likely to evict the owner from the vehicle and Igor presented a much bigger problem as far as intimidation and control goes. Not just getting him out of the vehicle, but Igor was more likely to be armed and cause trouble once out of the vehicle.

 

[andreww]

You are right. I went back to the video and he may have taken it off as he was getting in. Doesn't look like a hoodie when they pass by the camera. MOO

Black T shirt and a black ball cap if you ask me.

 

[ArianeEmory]

You wouldn't make a very good criminal. Guns are a very persuasive tools. Generally people will do whatever you say when you point one. Every once in a while someone gets brave and usually they are the ones that end up dead. The back story on Tim and the truck, how it was a money pit and how desperate Tim was to sell it leads me to believe Tim was desperate enough to fight back.

Consider this as well, if that plan was to simply shoot him, why not just shoot Igor? If that is your intention, its not difficult. No, the object was likely to evict the owner from the vehicle and Igor presented a much bigger problem as far as intimidation and control goes. Not just getting him out of the vehicle, but Igor was more likely to be armed and cause trouble once out of the vehicle.

The veiled implication that Tim brought it on himself doesn't get any less disgusting with time.

You can use a gun to 'intimidate' someone without loading it, if you're that desperate.

We agree that DM is a criminal. Obviously not a good one, though.

 

[billandrew]

You wouldn't make a very good criminal. Guns are a very persuasive tools. Generally people will do whatever you say when you point one. Every once in a while someone gets brave and usually they are the ones that end up dead. The back story on Tim and the truck, how it was a money pit and how desperate Tim was to sell it leads me to believe Tim was desperate enough to fight back.

Consider this as well, if that plan was to simply shoot him, why not just shoot Igor? If that is your intention, its not difficult. No, the object was likely to evict the owner from the vehicle and Igor presented a much bigger problem as far as intimidation and control goes. Not just getting him out of the vehicle, but Igor was more likely to be armed and cause trouble once out of the vehicle.

BBM. I disagree with that belief. I wasn't a close friend of Tim's, but I knew him well enough to say confidently that he wouldn't risk his life over the truck. He was all about his family, and with a wife and kid back home he would have handed his truck over the instant a gun was pointed at him.

 

[Inspector_North]

You wouldn't make a very good criminal. Guns are a very persuasive tools. Generally people will do whatever you say when you point one. Every once in a while someone gets brave and usually they are the ones that end up dead. The back story on Tim and the truck, how it was a money pit and how desperate Tim was to sell it leads me to believe Tim was desperate enough to fight back.

Consider this as well, if that plan was to simply shoot him, why not just shoot Igor? If that is your intention, its not difficult. No, the object was likely to evict the owner from the vehicle and Igor presented a much bigger problem as far as intimidation and control goes. Not just getting him out of the vehicle, but Igor was more likely to be armed and cause trouble once out of the vehicle.

First thing that came to my mind when the Military experience was mentioned, was what did he do, and who would miss him? Killing someone that was in the Israeli military, may be analogous to killing a member of a biker gang, or the mob. Just because of their tenacity to settle the score.

Not suggesting anything bad about the military if comes across that way. MOO

 

[dar107]

Colin ButlerVerified account ‏@ColinButlerCBC 3m3 minutes ago
Sachak points out the pause and asks if Michalski is lying to the jury #Bosma

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 2m2 minutes ago
Sachak says Marlena will be a witness later. So he'll ask her what Michalski told her when she couldn't find Mark. #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 3m3 minutes ago
Sachak asks again -- did you say "don't worry his phone is dead?"
Michalski says he said "his phones probably dead." #Bosma

molly hayesVerified account ‏@mollyhayes 2m2 minutes ago
Re: it's not the last time, Sachak asks "so you said it's not the last time his phones going to be dead?" Michalski agrees. #Bosma

BBM..if he said this...how did he know MS had a dead phone? hmmmm

.....I find all this real hard to swallow, come on. I get the feeling AM has practiced and prepped for this. The more I hear from AM, the more I am convinced he either knew or had a good idea what had happened. Maybe this is the "lies" that ended the friendship between him and MH. I feel like MH was trying to be honest and remember the events, well I feel AM is very "rehearsed"

MOO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

When and where did they change out of their bloody clothes (which I assume went in the incinerator)?

All MOO of course.
My theory has always been. They removed TB and put into incinerator at farm (no hanger video to prove this happened there), took out seat assembly and cut carpet and belts out, at the farm. Changed their clothes and burnt their bloody clothes at farm as well (Burn site 1 and 2)

Some people don't want to believe this theory to be possible. They don't think that the truck could be driven seatless! It's automatic, very easy to do...specially "sitting on a pail" as SS testified. Would be a bit more difficult to do if it were standard (stick shift) To me, this theory would alsl put TB's blood through the seat bolt holes and under the truck.

Seats are not hard to remove. I think it's 8 bolts and a few plugs to undo. Two guys can do this in about 20 mins (if I remember correctly, there was a 1hr gap between farm and hanger) and super high adrenaline..... just need socket wrench, a flashlight, truck interior lights and headlights of the Yukon. SS testified to "teaching DM how to remove seats". Then the rest of the clean up was done at the hanger.

Take it for what it worth but it's the only thing that makes sense to ME. And being a truck girl, I'm not stupid to vehicles but untill other evidence comes forth, I will stick to my theory.

 

[andreww]

BBM. I disagree with that belief. I wasn't a close friend of Tim's, but I knew him well enough to say confidently that he wouldn't risk his life over the truck. He was all about his family, and with a wife and kid back home he would have handed his truck over the instant a gun was pointed at him.

I hear you, but respectfully add that none of us know how anyone will act in those defining moments. Who will be the the hero that goes in the burning building, who goes up the WTC on 911 when everyone else goes down, or who will stand up and defend what is rightfully theirs.

 

[Abitcountry]

I'm really stuck on the fact that AM testified about DM having told him about DM's plan to steal a truck, and yet when DM confirmed that DM had in fact stole it, that AM would not have asked him "HOW???" "How did it all go down???" "Where is it now???" "Was it the same one we looked at???" "Did Smich end up going with you???" etc. etc.

AM was no angel himself, IMO. AM had been involved in thefts with DM and company prior to May 6th. I simply cannot buy it as anywhere near truthful that AM and DM did not discuss after the fact all the details of the theft, IMO.

And "sup?" with MS having given AM a nickname that stuck to him and that DM's chosen missionaries all knew AM by? That to me seems to suggest that AM and the crew all knew MS more than any are willing to let on, as they will try now to distance themselves from MS (the "sketchy" guy") in light of the situation they're in now, IMO. AM is still, like MH, as I predicted, covering his own butt while doing his best to not throw DM too far under the bus. Although, being as objective as I possibly can be, AM is likely aware that his friend, DM, and his friend, MS are likely going to be convicted, so his priority and concern, IMO, is to protect himself as much as he can.

All MOO.

Well, I suspect that Andrew has consulted with a lawyer prior to appearing in court....and while no one has spelled it out for us here, there must be a fine line between co-operating with authorities and not incriminating yourself in the process.

I can see Michalski getting into depth with DM about the latest score if he was into trucks or into mechanics....but if they did not have that in common what more was there to say.....mission accomplished, check....but for Michalski this was just another addition to the Millard auto collection. IMO

 

[andreww]

First thing that came to my mind when the Military experience was mentioned, was what did he do, and who would miss him? Killing someone that was in the Israeli military, may be analogous to killing a member of a biker gang, or the mob. Just because of their tenacity to settle the score.

Not suggesting anything bad about the military if comes across that way. MOO

Good point, as a target that you just want to kill, Igor was far better than Tim. If it had been Igor, I doubt it would have gotten the same media coverage.

 

[Inspector_North]

All MOO of course.
My theory has always been. They removed TB and put into incinerator at farm (no hanger video to prove this happened there), took out seat assembly and cut carpet and belts out, at the farm. Changed their clothes and burnt their bloody clothes at farm as well (Burn site 1 and 2)

Some people don't want to believe this theory to be possible. They don't think that the truck could be driven seatless! It's automatic, very easy to do...specially "sitting on a pail" as SS testified. Would be a bit more difficult to do if it were standard (stick shift) To me, this theory would alsl put TB's blood through the seat bolt holes and under the truck.

Seats are not hard to remove. I think it's 8 bolts and a few plugs to undo. Two guys can do this in about 20 mins (if I remember correctly, there was a 1hr gap between farm and hanger) and super high adrenaline..... just need socket wrench, a flashlight, truck interior lights and headlights of the Yukon. SS testified to "teaching DM how to remove seats". Then the rest of the clean up was done at the hanger.

Take it for what it worth but it's the only thing that makes sense to ME. And being a truck girl, I'm not stupid to vehicles but untill other evidence comes forth, I will stick to my theory.

Reasonable and possible. I agree about the putting TB in the Eliminator at the farm, but the seats and carpet I think were handled at the hanger. MOO

Too bad turkey hunters don't use trail cams.

 

[hippy_chic]

Finally caught up after a morning away. Thanks for the tweets everyone.

Now I have to ask, If MB was in town (instead of out of town as was previously reported in MSM 3 years ago), and busying herself worrying about Pedo the dog after DM was busted, then *surely* she knew his trailer was parked in her driveway. Yes?

Perhaps she came back early from her out of town trip when she heard her son had been arrested? MOO

On another note...:happydance:Congrats on the birth of your newest grandchild Ontario Mom!!

 

[Ironworker736]

The veiled implication that Tim brought it on himself doesn't get any less disgusting with time.

You can use a gun to 'intimidate' someone without loading it, if you're that desperate.

We agree that DM is a criminal. Obviously not a good one, though.

<BBM>
Respectfully, virtually no criminal who carries an illegal gun will carry it empty. There is nothing as useless as an empty gun. If it was pulled on someone and they fought back, what then? Shout "BANG"?

I am not suggesting Tim fought back or is in any way, shape or form responsible for the fate he met, just weighing in on carrying an empty weapon.

 

[brightii]

Looking at this picture, and the fact that it has been mentioned several times that MS wore the same clothes most days. His shirt was black. It also looks like he is wearing a baseball cap in the video snapshot I previously posted. MOO

From my perspective, especially when the full photo is viewed showing MS's entire body, he is much thinner and scrawnier than the person in the hangar video, IMO. MS's shoulders are not as broad as the person in the hangar video, IMO. And the hoodie's seem different in the hangar video than this one MS is wearing which is really long but rather fitted to his thin frame. The person in the hangar video appears to be wider, bulkier, and his hoodie wider and shorter, and with the sleeves of the hoodie practically hanging loose covering much of his hands, rather than gathered at the wrist by a fitted cuff, as MS's does, and the hoodie falls completely flat on the person in the hangar video, unlike in this pic of MS, IMO.

All MOO.

 

[Inspector_North]

I hear you, but respectfully add that none of us know how anyone will act in those defining moments. Who will be the the hero that goes in the burning building, who goes up the WTC on 911 when everyone else goes down, or who will stand up and defend what is rightfully theirs.

Well, I would believe we could predict Tim's actions over these two characters. Even if he did struggle and it was a armed robbery gone bad, they planned being there with a loaded gun. MOO

 

[musicaljoke]

...
Consider this as well, if that plan was to simply shoot him, why not just shoot Igor? If that is your intention, its not difficult. No, the object was likely to evict the owner from the vehicle and Igor presented a much bigger problem as far as intimidation and control goes. Not just getting him out of the vehicle, but Igor was more likely to be armed and cause trouble once out of the vehicle.

It's not normal for a person to be armed for a test drive, even former military people. However, IT may have been armed with Israeli military experience and skill, something that DM and MS would fear.

 

[redwing7225]

You wouldn't make a very good criminal. Guns are a very persuasive tools. Generally people will do whatever you say when you point one. Every once in a while someone gets brave and usually they are the ones that end up dead. The back story on Tim and the truck, how it was a money pit and how desperate Tim was to sell it leads me to believe Tim was desperate enough to fight back.

Consider this as well, if that plan was to simply shoot him, why not just shoot Igor? If that is your intention, its not difficult. No, the object was likely to evict the owner from the vehicle and Igor presented a much bigger problem as far as intimidation and control goes. Not just getting him out of the vehicle, but Igor was more likely to be armed and cause trouble once out of the vehicle.

You are correct regarding the fact that I wouldn't make a good criminal. I cannot comment regarding "why not just shoot Igor", I am still trying to figure out why DM and MS had such a sick sense of entitlement to feel that killing someone over a truck is justified. Then to cover up the murder, hide the truck, and go on with day to day activities like nothing happened...not to mention the amount of tax payers dollars this case is costing AND the amount it will cost the HONEST (may I add non-criminal) working people of this country.

However, regarding the "back story on Tim and the truck, how it was a money pit and how desperate Tim was to sell it"...auto insurance covers theft of a vehicle.

IMO, there will never be an explanation to such a horrific event, an event that never had to occur.
Thoughts are with the Bosma family and friends...justice will come.

 

[Inspector_North]

From my perspective, especially when the full photo is viewed showing MS's entire body, he is much thinner and scrawnier than the person in the hangar video, IMO. MS's shoulders are not as broad as the person in the hangar video, IMO. And the hoodie's seem different in the hangar video than this one MS is wearing which is really long but rather fitted to his thin frame. The person in the hangar video appears to be wider, bulkier, and his hoodie wider and shorter, and with the sleeves of the hoodie practically hanging loose covering much of his hands, rather than gathered at the wrist by a fitted cuff, as MS's does, and the hoodie falls completely flat on the person in the hangar video, unlike in this pic of MS, IMO.

All MOO.

Are you thinking that the Yukon and DM who are in the video at the hanger on the 6th and early morning 7th, left the hanger and dropped someone off, picked up Mark and then picked up MM? Seems very unlikely to me. Even MM's texts indicate he was with DM. MOO